Author Topic: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here  (Read 2101 times)

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Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« on: August 28, 2017, 01:47:07 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Are people realizing that it was leaked months ago that Irving said he really wanted to play for Stevens? Are people forgetting that Irving has waived his trade kicker? Have we forgotten the reports he is open to extending here? If he wants to be here he can not waive his kicker and give indications he wants to test free agency if traded to suns or bucks. He says that to the cavs front office he really torpedoes what the cavs could get for him if they backed out. Let's stop acting like pulling out doesn't have a ton of potential to really really screw the cavs. Irving has tons of power. Reports also trickling in that Cleveland will not get anything else. If this deal goes through at this point and IT misses lots of time it becomes a very solid deal (and I really really hated it originally)

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 01:50:12 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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1. irving wants to be in boston
2. irving does not want to be in cleveland
3. boston has best package hence why the trade was agreed upon.

its hard to see this not occuring.

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 01:51:30 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Paul George supposedly had power too and he still got sent to OKC. Kyrie doesn't have a no trade clause and 2 guaranteed years left on his deal, the Cavs don't really have to oblige him at all.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 01:54:52 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Paul George supposedly had power too and he still got sent to OKC. Kyrie doesn't have a no trade clause and 2 guaranteed years left on his deal, the Cavs don't really have to oblige him at all.
I don't see why Paul George would be mad at the OKC trade? It puts him in a better situation for this coming year and in no way impedes his ability to go to the Lakers in the summer. The Lakers weren't going to trade for him anyway, at least he got out of Indiana and into a better situation

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 01:57:20 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Paul George supposedly had power too and he still got sent to OKC. Kyrie doesn't have a no trade clause and 2 guaranteed years left on his deal, the Cavs don't really have to oblige him at all.

That's a completely different situation, though. The Lakers were offering garbage for George; whereas, we're actually offering up the best package for Kyrie.

Kyrie definitely has power in this situation, which is one of the reasons Phoenix wouldn't give up Jackson for him, i.e. he said he'd test free agency in two years. He just has to wield it.

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 02:04:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Paul George supposedly had power too and he still got sent to OKC. Kyrie doesn't have a no trade clause and 2 guaranteed years left on his deal, the Cavs don't really have to oblige him at all.

This makes no sense. He was an expiring contract that said he would sign elsewhere. He torpedoed his value and got traded for garbage. You are literally making my point for me. Irving can torpedo his own value forcing Cleveland to only get garbage back. Thank you for inadvertently agreeing with me lol

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 02:14:45 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Paul George supposedly had power too and he still got sent to OKC. Kyrie doesn't have a no trade clause and 2 guaranteed years left on his deal, the Cavs don't really have to oblige him at all.

This makes no sense. He was an expiring contract that said he would sign elsewhere. He torpedoed his value and got traded for garbage. You are literally making my point for me. Irving can torpedo his own value forcing Cleveland to only get garbage back. Thank you for inadvertently agreeing with me lol

He didn't torpedo his value all that much though, KP just settled for a crappy deal - by most accounts, Cleveland had assembled a better 3-team offer with Denver, and we would've given them a better value deal but Indy did what they wanted. My point is, even under more duress and significantly lower leverage, Indy sent PG where they wanted to and he had no control over it.

The one area where it makes sense to play ball for Cleveland is to extend goodwill to Irving's agent. Even so, Dan Gilbert has already shown he'll burn bridges due to his pride. If we're glossing over anything, it might be Dan Gilbert's recklessness.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 02:20:55 PM »

Offline Moranis

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All of this was true about Irving when Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st and when Milwaukee offered Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Nothing has changed from their positions, so this supposed power really doesn't mean much of anything.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 02:26:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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All of this was true about Irving when Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st and when Milwaukee offered Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Nothing has changed from their positions, so this supposed power really doesn't mean much of anything.

That's not true Moranis. Lol please try being a little less pro Cleveland for the love of good. If you tell someone they are getting traded somewhere and then renege on it it really changes things for them. Try telling someone they are getting promoted or sent to a different region to do their work they really want to. Then 4 days later tell them none of that is happening and they either don't get the promotion or are being sent to a much less desirable location. You don't think they make a stink? Kyrie absolutely can and probably will make a bigger stink going to Phoenix now than
Before this trade. I would be very wary of giving up an elite prospect like
Jackson under these circumstances. Do you have a way of turning down the pro Cleveland stuff?

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2017, 02:56:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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All of this was true about Irving when Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st and when Milwaukee offered Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Nothing has changed from their positions, so this supposed power really doesn't mean much of anything.

That's not true Moranis. Lol please try being a little less pro Cleveland for the love of good. If you tell someone they are getting traded somewhere and then renege on it it really changes things for them. Try telling someone they are getting promoted or sent to a different region to do their work they really want to. Then 4 days later tell them none of that is happening and they either don't get the promotion or are being sent to a much less desirable location. You don't think they make a stink? Kyrie absolutely can and probably will make a bigger stink going to Phoenix now than
Before this trade. I would be very wary of giving up an elite prospect like
Jackson under these circumstances. Do you have a way of turning down the pro Cleveland stuff?
Phoenix was never going to give up Jackson or Irving would have been traded there already.  and Irving can make all the stink he wants, he would still show up and play in Phoenix because he is under contract for 2 more years.  Before Irving was traded to Boston, Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st knowing full well Irving might not waive his trade kicker and that he would likely test free agency in 2 years.  What exactly has changed for them now?  Do you think they still wouldn't make that trade?  The same thing holds true for Milwaukee and its offer of Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Is that suddenly going to be off the table because Irving was traded to Boston but was voided?
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 03:52:24 PM »

Offline jambr380

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You make some good points clay about Irving being bummed about not going to the best situation possible for him, but his primary objective is still to leave Cleveland more than anything else. He may prefer Boston and indicate he would re-sign here, but if it's between PHX/MIL and staying in Cleveland, he will absolutely choose to go to PHX/MIL.

It's not like he has some connection to Boston or affinity for the city, he was just traded here 4 days ago. However, if he wants to make a big deal about not coming here, then I am all for it.

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 04:08:40 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
That's not true Moranis. Lol please try being a little less pro Cleveland for the love of good

That is almost a given...

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 04:35:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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All of this was true about Irving when Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st and when Milwaukee offered Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Nothing has changed from their positions, so this supposed power really doesn't mean much of anything.

That's not true Moranis. Lol please try being a little less pro Cleveland for the love of good. If you tell someone they are getting traded somewhere and then renege on it it really changes things for them. Try telling someone they are getting promoted or sent to a different region to do their work they really want to. Then 4 days later tell them none of that is happening and they either don't get the promotion or are being sent to a much less desirable location. You don't think they make a stink? Kyrie absolutely can and probably will make a bigger stink going to Phoenix now than
Before this trade. I would be very wary of giving up an elite prospect like
Jackson under these circumstances. Do you have a way of turning down the pro Cleveland stuff?
Phoenix was never going to give up Jackson or Irving would have been traded there already.  and Irving can make all the stink he wants, he would still show up and play in Phoenix because he is under contract for 2 more years.  Before Irving was traded to Boston, Phoenix offered Bledsoe, Bender, Miami 1st knowing full well Irving might not waive his trade kicker and that he would likely test free agency in 2 years.  What exactly has changed for them now?  Do you think they still wouldn't make that trade?  The same thing holds true for Milwaukee and its offer of Brogdon, Middleton, 1st.  Is that suddenly going to be off the table because Irving was traded to Boston but was voided?
Yes I definitely think there is a chance that Irving pouts publicly if they pull this deal (I think Crowder could as well). A pouting guy may have a lower trade value and could make Phoenix lower their offer. As usual you fail to consider any possible negative outcome for Cleveland. Would love to have a head doctor get a hold of your brain so we could learn about your condition
A bit more.

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 04:37:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Quote
That's not true Moranis. Lol please try being a little less pro Cleveland for the love of good

That is almost a given...

Haha yeah I know, the more people that call him out on it the better. Otherwise he is praising Lebron James passing gas.

Re: Let's not gloss over Irvings power here
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 04:43:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Under Stevens ....and a team system , I  hink Irving will mold more into a CP3 type player , a better all around player ,  instead of a ball hog balls out Westbrooke type .