Author Topic: Patriots 2017 season  (Read 11642 times)

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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #240 on: December 17, 2017, 10:22:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Refarding Jimmy G. The Pats got hosed on that trade. They traded away a franchise quality QB for a high 2nd rounder. Just awful trade.
I'm gonna call it right now: choosing 2 years of Brady over a decade of Jimmy was a mistake.

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Depends entirely on how many Super Bowls each one wins in that time
Maybe, if you think the 49ers organization is as good as  the Patriots.
Well the Pats could have just played out the year with Brady and told him if we win it all, retire or we trade you, then they would have signed Jimmy G long term. Then it would have been just one year of Brady then multiple years of Brady.

I think that that's what Belichick wanted to do but Brady went to Kraft and said he was playing multiple years, so Kraft told Belichick to trade Jimmy. Its the only thing that makes sense because if Belichick planned to trade Garropolo all along, he would never have trade Brissette.

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #241 on: December 18, 2017, 12:16:15 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #242 on: December 18, 2017, 12:23:32 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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The hard salary cap is brutal in the NFL.  As of now, the Pats are right up against it, and next year doesn't look good either ($14 mil).  But trading JG is and probably will be a tough pill to swallow.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #243 on: December 18, 2017, 12:24:58 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
At least as far as this particular aspect of the rule is concerned. What constitutes "a football move" has generally been iffy, but just reaching downfield has never been enough to satisfy that definition.
Then I guess it's a good thing that the term "football move" is not in the rule at all.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #244 on: December 18, 2017, 08:26:31 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #245 on: December 18, 2017, 09:25:46 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #246 on: December 18, 2017, 09:52:00 AM »

Offline jambr380

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If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

When making a catch, a player must maintain control throughout the entire process of the catch, including going to the ground. He was still in the process of receiving the ball since he was falling. The ball clearly came loose when he hit the ground.

People claiming that because he crossed the goal line before hitting the ground aren't taking into account what it is to be a 'runner' and what it is to be a 'receiver.' When RBs or WRs that are running with the ball (after making a 'footbal play') reach for the plane and then fumble it, it is different than making what appears to be a catch, but not having complete control all the way to the ground.

While it stinks for Steelers fans, it's just how the rule has always been interpreted. Personally I don't think this one was all that controversial compared to other close calls.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:14:30 AM by jambr380 »

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #247 on: December 18, 2017, 10:03:04 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If the NFL is wondering why the ratings are going down, then they should watch the end of yesterday's Pats/Steelers game. Nobody knows what the rules are anymore. BTW, there is also the rule that the video evidence on the instant replay has to be indisputable to overturn the call on the field. Yes the ball moved, but his fingers on his right hand were under the ball the whole time.

If the ground can't cause a fumble, then how can it prevent a catch? I think the NFL needs to pick a side that is consistent regardless of the type of play.

BTW, the only reason why people are talking about this play, is because of the controversy surrounding it and common sense saying that it was a catch. If the refs called it a touchdown after the replay, then no one would have been questioning the catch today, because of how obvious it was.

My understanding is that they changed the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule to "receiver must maintain control through the fall."
"The ground cannot cause a fumble" is in fact not a rule. It's a convenient shortcut for the fact that if you're tackled and lose the ball when it hits the ground, you're down by contact in the second the ball touches the ground. The ground can, in fact, cause a fumble, if you fall without contact and lose the ball. It's not rocket science, but memespeak is dangerous like that.

Still has nothing to do with the situation, though. The rule is clear cut in that you can't use the ground to maintain control of the ball while making a catch, and that's exactly what happened here.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #248 on: December 18, 2017, 10:04:48 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Frankly, it was a catch, BUT BY RULE IT WAS NOT. That's the flawed catch rule for you, and frankly there's no consistency with those calls around the NFL. The bobble certainly helped NE's case as the ball hit the ground there.
No, there's absolute consistency. If the ball hits the ground and moves as you're coming down with it, it will be called an incomplete every time.
Yeah it's actually really consistent.
At least as far as this particular aspect of the rule is concerned. What constitutes "a football move" has generally been iffy, but just reaching downfield has never been enough to satisfy that definition.
Then I guess it's a good thing that the term "football move" is not in the rule at all.
Yes, they "changed the rule" by writing in that the player now has to "establish himself as a runner". Don't delude yourself that this is anything else than hand waving. This is still called exactly the same way it's always been.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #249 on: December 18, 2017, 10:07:11 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
Chances are he's not going to play until he's 40 at the level at which Brady is playing. But based on what I've seen, he's got exactly the same je ne sais quoi that Brady does. There, I said it.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #250 on: December 18, 2017, 11:01:14 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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It's entirely possible the Pats made the wrong long-term call by trading JG, but a) chances are, JG is not a Brady-level player (and the Niners aren't a Pats-level organization), and b) you don't just dump the guy who led you to 5 Super Bowl titles.

If Jimmy ends up leading the Niners (or another team) to 3 or 4 titles, maybe I'll regret the trade, but I really don't see that happening.
Chances are he's not going to play until he's 40 at the level at which Brady is playing. But based on what I've seen, he's got exactly the same je ne sais quoi that Brady does. There, I said it.

Maybe so. I'd be happy to see him reach that level, as long as his team doesn't ever beat the Pats in the Super Bowl. ;D
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #251 on: December 18, 2017, 11:08:22 AM »

Offline eja117

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I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one. 

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #252 on: December 18, 2017, 11:31:55 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one.

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo
You don't need to watch things in super slo mo to see he couldn't hold on to the ball without plopping it on the ground. You just need to not be blind. The knee on the ground is largely irrelevant to the discussion (but even if it weren't, he's not  down by contact at that point either way).
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #253 on: December 18, 2017, 11:55:37 AM »

Offline eja117

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If he's not down by contact because nobody has touched him and he starts to move wouldn't it then be a fumble and recovery?

The knee is the impact with the ground. Not his hands. Right?

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #254 on: December 18, 2017, 11:56:47 AM »

Offline eja117

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I admit I don't understand why it's not a catch on the one when he has the ball and his knee is down at the one.

To me on some level if we're going to watch things in super slow motion to make the call super slow mo has to be used to uphold things just as much as overturn them.

I'm not even sure we should have slow mo replay. Just replay. The game isn't played or called in slow mo
You don't need to watch things in super slo mo to see he couldn't hold on to the ball without plopping it on the ground. You just need to not be blind. The knee on the ground is largely irrelevant to the discussion (but even if it weren't, he's not  down by contact at that point either way).
My eyes are decent (no glasses) and I see a guy who has clearly made a catch and is now stretching out.