Author Topic: Patriots 2017 season  (Read 23216 times)

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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #480 on: January 22, 2018, 12:40:33 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.
Its silly to discount those factors, but what is really silly is the idea that this super bowl trip is unique because it might be the last one.

Each of the 8 could have easily been the last one. Its really freaking hard to get to and win a superbowl.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #481 on: January 22, 2018, 01:32:21 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.  Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

The "soon" part is what everyone is wondering about. Is soon next year, or 6-7 years. People started to say that Brady wouldn't play til 40. Now they're saying he won't play til he is 45. Using conventional wisdom, it makes sense that Brady should have been done by now, and has at most 2 more years left.

If you used conventional wisdom in the past, you would have said that Brady wouldn't have won so many of these tight games in the 4th quarter.

Belichick can do whatever he wants after Brady retires. He's not going anywhere until that day comes.

I think we'd end up disrespecting conventional wisdom by assuming more than 2 years.  But I've got no doubt at all that Brady will be great for as long as possible.  If a religious movement revolved around his legacy, I'd apply to join with enthusiasm.

There's a theory of 'cognitive reserve' used to explain how differently people respond (behaviorally) to brain injury or disease.  It boils down to "use it or less it," with people sustaining better late-life function with more engagement in things like school/work, exercise, social activities, healthy eating, etc.   

But, when the high CR group falls, they fall hard and fast.  I think the same may be true of athletes - a physical reserve that acts as a compensatory mechanism for as long as possible (shielding any larger, core issues), but once that fails you are kaput.  I'm not a football expert, but Peyton Manning's decline seemed that abrupt to me. 

Again, no hard feelings toward Tom.  I'm still not sure he wasn't the motivation behind Benjamin Button.  But the day is comin', big green_bball, and we need to start our preparations.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #482 on: January 22, 2018, 02:21:23 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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I think everyone here has got to root for the Patriots in two weeks.

Mainly because Kobe Bryant is a huge Eagles fan.

And Philadelphia opposes to Boston in the sports rivalry.  ;D

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #483 on: January 22, 2018, 07:34:56 AM »

Offline eja117

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This stuff about this is the last time the Pats go to a Super Bowl is adorable

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #484 on: January 22, 2018, 07:48:26 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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Plus I was just thinking how big a part of the win that AMENdola was


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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #485 on: January 22, 2018, 08:55:53 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #486 on: January 22, 2018, 09:00:08 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.
the patriots have won before with various different coaches not names Patricia and McDaniels. Brady is ageless

Agree. Love Josh and Patricia, but they're not named Tom or Bill.

The Patriots have a good team full of talented players and "team first" guys who are held accountable. They have the proper amount of depth and hungry players who step in when someone gets hurt. They have a very good offensive system with the right players for the right plays at the right times.

But let's not make this too complicated..... it's Tom and Bill.

It's silly to discount all those factors -- McDaniels was with the Pats for all 5 championships and Patricia for 3; Brady is getting old; etc.  But if we're keeping it simple: One or both of Tom and Bill will be gone soon.  It's one of our last trips, if not the last.  Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

The "soon" part is what everyone is wondering about. Is soon next year, or 6-7 years. People started to say that Brady wouldn't play til 40. Now they're saying he won't play til he is 45. Using conventional wisdom, it makes sense that Brady should have been done by now, and has at most 2 more years left.

If you used conventional wisdom in the past, you would have said that Brady wouldn't have won so many of these tight games in the 4th quarter.

Belichick can do whatever he wants after Brady retires. He's not going anywhere until that day comes.

I think we'd end up disrespecting conventional wisdom by assuming more than 2 years.  But I've got no doubt at all that Brady will be great for as long as possible.  If a religious movement revolved around his legacy, I'd apply to join with enthusiasm.

There's a theory of 'cognitive reserve' used to explain how differently people respond (behaviorally) to brain injury or disease.  It boils down to "use it or less it," with people sustaining better late-life function with more engagement in things like school/work, exercise, social activities, healthy eating, etc.   

But, when the high CR group falls, they fall hard and fast.  I think the same may be true of athletes - a physical reserve that acts as a compensatory mechanism for as long as possible (shielding any larger, core issues), but once that fails you are kaput.  I'm not a football expert, but Peyton Manning's decline seemed that abrupt to me. 

Again, no hard feelings toward Tom.  I'm still not sure he wasn't the motivation behind Benjamin Button.  But the day is comin', big green_bball, and we need to start our preparations.

I don't know what you mean by disrespecting conventional wisdom. Brady is the outlier in many ways. He doesn't fit the standard rules.

Peyton Manning had a serious neck injury. Once Brady has a similar injury, your point makes sense. Until then, do we need to hold our breath? I think it is possible that Brady doesn't end his career through injury, but because he's tired and accomplished what he wanted to accomplish.... which is to win more than anyone ever will.

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #487 on: January 22, 2018, 01:00:24 PM »

Offline mef730

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This may be the sweetest SB because it could realistically be the last.  With Patricia and McDaniels headed off, Brady's age, and whatever you make of the media stuff... one more SB win would be a great way to end an incredible run.

Curious, what has been the success rate of all the coaches who have left the Patriots? How have they done without Belichick? That may not be an entirely fair question, since a new coach often goes to a bad team, but I don't sense that they have had much more success than the players that the Patriots have let go/traded that we all thought were essential to the Pats' success.

Also, while #80 was clearly the MVP of that game, I don't think we win it without the performance we got from James Harrison. That guy is huge.

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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #488 on: January 22, 2018, 01:07:43 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.
They whistled the play dead on the field (I think he was ruled as down by contact). That's not reviewable.

Also, there was at least one DPI against the Jags that wasn't called (Cooks down the middle, someone held his hand pretty blatantly). I thought the Cooks call you're talking about was a good call, wasn't so sure after I saw it on replay today morning. These things tend to even out.

Re: Gronk's injury. I'm tired of hearing DBs complain that they can't hit a 6'6 guy between the knees and the shoulders. That's what, 6 feet of space? If that target isn't big enough for you, you're in the wrong sport, pal.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #489 on: January 22, 2018, 01:45:46 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.
They whistled the play dead on the field (I think he was ruled as down by contact). That's not reviewable.

Also, there was at least one DPI against the Jags that wasn't called (Cooks down the middle, someone held his hand pretty blatantly). I thought the Cooks call you're talking about was a good call, wasn't so sure after I saw it on replay today morning. These things tend to even out.

Re: Gronk's injury. I'm tired of hearing DBs complain that they can't hit a 6'6 guy between the knees and the shoulders. That's what, 6 feet of space? If that target isn't big enough for you, you're in the wrong sport, pal.

I'm not questioning the review. If the refs saw the fumble in live action, then how could they blow the play dead when the Jaguars player was clearly not touched. He never had possession of the ball until he got off the ground. The fumble and recovery seemed obvious in real time. If I was a Jaguars fan, I would be ripped over that call.

Like I said, I think Brady threw a bad pass. It forced Gronk to overstretch to try to reach the ball, which then caused Gronk to put his head lower than needed when he was trying to regain his balance. If Gronk didn't lower is head, then the defender looked like he was going to hit his chest.

Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #490 on: January 22, 2018, 01:59:02 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.


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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #491 on: January 23, 2018, 11:30:08 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white. 


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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #492 on: January 23, 2018, 11:30:59 AM »

Offline eja117

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Pats going "white" for Super Bowl even though they are technically the home team and could've worn blue.

Kinda makes sense from a superstition standpoint.  Pats have won their past two Super Bowls wearing white.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #493 on: January 23, 2018, 11:40:59 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I don't even know how the Jags were even awarded the fumble to begin with. The guy never took his hand off the ball, his knee hit he then turned over onto his back then the guy ripped it out.

By the book he already had possession so to technically to lose possession it must full come out of his grasp which it didn't.
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Re: Patriots 2017 season
« Reply #494 on: January 23, 2018, 11:41:41 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Did I miss the explanation of why the whistle was blown on the fumble recovered by the Jaguars? In real time, it was clear it was a fumble and possession didn't occur until the defensive player was off the ground. So at what point was it determined that the Jaguar player was "tackled"? That guy had an easy touchdown, which would have put them up by 17.

The Pats also benefited from that pass interference call with less than a minute in the first half. I was surprised that it wasn't just called a holding penalty, as the ball was clearly uncatchable. The Pats also got away with an obvious holding call on the running play to close the game.

BTW, I hope Gronk is going to be alright. It wasn't mentioned, but that was a bad throw by Brady, which put Gronk in a bad situation.

Eh, in the end I think everything evened out on the fumble recovery by Jack. If the ruling on the field was that Lewis was down by contact, then the play probably would have held since he appeared to partially re-gain possession before losing it on his back. Because it was ruled a fumble, there wasn't enough evidence to overturn thee call.

Also, Jack was so upset and spiked the ball in anger because he thought that they ruled Lewis down, not because a TD was taken away from him. I think he was perfectly happy [at the time] to have the fumble recovery 'count'.

People talking about this play and the first Cooks PI (where there wasn't a ton of contact, but he was clearly interfered with and guided out of bounds) are just sour that the Pats once again are in the SB. I am angry that the best TE of all-time was taken out recklessly by their player...and all we got was 15 yards for it.

I understand, though - I would hate the Pats if I weren't from New England. We are just really lucky as fans to have been able to live through such a long era of greatness.