Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...

[The Oracle]

His lack of all-round game makes it impossible for him to positively effect the outcome of a game when he isn't scoring.

Once you accept that IT and Kyrie are at least equivalent in productivity, but that Kyrie is 4 years younger than IT, under contract longer and at a more reasonable price, you see why they had to give up more than just IT to get him (that doesn't include the fact that they had to add Crowder just for salary matching).  And for the team, that means that the production will not drop that dramatically, even if Kyrie is worse under Stevens and without Lebron.

I swear, it seems like Isaiah is getting older and shorter with every CelticsBlog thread.

Isaiah is 3 years and 38 days older than Kyrie Irving.  They are not 4 years apart.

FWIW, they came into the NBA in the same season and they have almost the same number of minutes of wear and tear.    Thomas has a little bit more minutes from college, whereas Irving has a little bit more minutes from the playoffs.

Kyrie is under contract control for one more year than Thomas.   Whether it is at a "more reasonable price" is debatable.  He will cost about 13M more this year and possibly about 10M less in the following year.  After that, he will almost certainly cost more.

The trade premium was, indeed for the opportunity to sign Irving long term with a next contract starting at 27, as opposed to Isaiah's which would have started at age 29.

So if we all accept that near term, Irving and Isaiah are roughly equivalent in productivity, then we gave up Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and the BKN18 pick for the difference between 2 years of prime Irving and 2 years of just-past prime Thomas.

Whether that will be worth it remains to be seen.

You seem to be valuing I.T. as though he is not currently injured.  A healthy I.T. with 1 year left on his contract might get you 50% of Irving in value but he is not that player as we sit.  It is not inconceivable to see him giving the Cavs next to nothing this year and at minimum you can't expect he will return to the form he had for the C's last year.  I.T. is not running at all right now 3+ months after his last game and is thought to be going to miss the beginning of the season, that is alarming. 

[CelticsQuestFor18]

Kyrie Irving isn't good enough to:

(1) be worth what Ainge gave up for him
(2) to lead a team to a Championship

Jury could be out on (1), though I do agree we overpayed big time for Irving.

But I agree with (2). Just don't think we can win a championship with Irving as our true alpha with the team as currently constructed. Need another piece/star.

It would be nicer if Horford was like 3-4 years younger. Still a solid, great veteran player but he's past his prime now.

[Casperian]

Took some time off, just heard about this deal.

Are we sure Danny isn't showing first signs of dementia?

What a mess of an off-season.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Took some time off, just heard about this deal.

Are we sure Danny isn't showing first signs of dementia?

What a mess of an off-season.

so signing hayward was a mess? trying to improve team with kyrie was a mess? Go back to taking more time off. thanks!

[Smokeeye123]

Kyrie Irving isn't good enough to:

(1) be worth what Ainge gave up for him
(2) to lead a team to a Championship

I like that Ainge combined his assets and went after a top star. But I hate that Ainge chose Kyrie Irving to be that player. Irving simply isn't talented enough to warrant such acclaim.

Kyrie is a terrific scorer but he is a bad defensive player, a bad rebounder, a bad passer and poor floor general.

His lack of all-round game makes it impossible for him to positively effect the outcome of a game when he isn't scoring. Which is a big reason why his teams struggled pre-LeBron and continued to struggle while LeBron was resting on the bench over the last couple of years.

Kyrie frequently misses basic passing opportunities. He frequently gets tunnel vision and can think of nothing else but putting up a shot. Frequently over-dribbles and stagnates the offense. All of which makes him difficult to play with. The opposite of someone who makes his teammates better.

Of further concern is the lack of development Kyrie has made over the last few seasons especially while playing on a top team in Cleveland next to LeBron James. He has not matured as a basketball player. He still does not put regular effort in on defense. He still does not make consistently sound decisions on offense. He still lacks the inability to lead his team whenever LeBron isn't around to hold his hand.

Kyrie Irving simply isn't good enough.

-------------------------------

Think of all the great Celtics that have won Championships here.

The 2008 team -- KG was an elite defender, strong rebounder, elite passer, very good scorer. Pierce was an elite scorer, good defender, good rebounder, very good passer.

The 80s teams -- Bird was an elite scorer, rebounder, passer and a good defender in his earlier years. McHale was an elite scorer and defender. Parish was a plus scorer, defender & rebounder.

The 70s teams -- Cowens was an elite defensive player, elite rebounder, very good passer and a good scorer. Havlicek was an elite scorer, elite defender, very good passer and rebounder. Jo Jo White was a very good scorer and defender.

The 60s teams -- Russell was an elite defender, elite rebounder, elite passer, good scorer. Havlicek noted above. Sam Jones was a very good scorer and defender. Cousy was an elite passer, good scorer and capable defender.



All of those teams were led by multi-dimensional stars ... players who could effect and even dominate games in multiple ways. Not one-dimensional scorers.

Kyrie doesn't have the talent to lead a team the way those guys did or so many other Champions have over the History of this league. He simply isn't well-rounded enough. He has never displayed the maturity necessary to lead a top team. To put in the effort required to improve his defense or rebounding. Never understood the value in passing, in creating for others instead of just himself. He is too single-minded. Too obsessed with himself. With how much he scores. Not his team. Only himself!

Kyrie Irving isn't good enough for Ainge to go all-out like this. To give up such a huge trade for or to build a team around. Kyrie doesn't have the talent for that.

Kyrie is a top 3 pointguard in the nba and is young. The ones above him are older and already in their primes. Kyrie is just entering his.

If we somehow trade for Davis you dont think Kyrie/Davis/Hayward is enough to win the championship in 3 years?

[celticinorlando]

Kyrie is 10 times better than a 5'9 broken down Thomas who is about to turn 30.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Kyrie is 10 times better than a 5'9 broken down Thomas who is about to turn 30.

END THREAD

[The One]

Kyrie is amazing now and will be better in Stevens' system.

Kyrie Irving Top 25 Crossover 2017

https://youtu.be/3Sb7rQyiERs