Author Topic: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...  (Read 15600 times)

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Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« on: August 23, 2017, 09:41:45 PM »

Online Who

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Kyrie Irving isn't good enough to:

(1) be worth what Ainge gave up for him
(2) to lead a team to a Championship

I like that Ainge combined his assets and went after a top star. But I hate that Ainge chose Kyrie Irving to be that player. Irving simply isn't talented enough to warrant such acclaim.

Kyrie is a terrific scorer but he is a bad defensive player, a bad rebounder, a bad passer and poor floor general.

His lack of all-round game makes it impossible for him to positively effect the outcome of a game when he isn't scoring. Which is a big reason why his teams struggled pre-LeBron and continued to struggle while LeBron was resting on the bench over the last couple of years.

Kyrie frequently misses basic passing opportunities. He frequently gets tunnel vision and can think of nothing else but putting up a shot. Frequently over-dribbles and stagnates the offense. All of which makes him difficult to play with. The opposite of someone who makes his teammates better.

Of further concern is the lack of development Kyrie has made over the last few seasons especially while playing on a top team in Cleveland next to LeBron James. He has not matured as a basketball player. He still does not put regular effort in on defense. He still does not make consistently sound decisions on offense. He still lacks the inability to lead his team whenever LeBron isn't around to hold his hand.

Kyrie Irving simply isn't good enough.

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Think of all the great Celtics that have won Championships here.

The 2008 team -- KG was an elite defender, strong rebounder, elite passer, very good scorer. Pierce was an elite scorer, good defender, good rebounder, very good passer.

The 80s teams -- Bird was an elite scorer, rebounder, passer and a good defender in his earlier years. McHale was an elite scorer and defender. Parish was a plus scorer, defender & rebounder.

The 70s teams -- Cowens was an elite defensive player, elite rebounder, very good passer and a good scorer. Havlicek was an elite scorer, elite defender, very good passer and rebounder. Jo Jo White was a very good scorer and defender.

The 60s teams -- Russell was an elite defender, elite rebounder, elite passer, good scorer. Havlicek noted above. Sam Jones was a very good scorer and defender. Cousy was an elite passer, good scorer and capable defender.



All of those teams were led by multi-dimensional stars ... players who could effect and even dominate games in multiple ways. Not one-dimensional scorers.

Kyrie doesn't have the talent to lead a team the way those guys did or so many other Champions have over the History of this league. He simply isn't well-rounded enough. He has never displayed the maturity necessary to lead a top team. To put in the effort required to improve his defense or rebounding. Never understood the value in passing, in creating for others instead of just himself. He is too single-minded. Too obsessed with himself. With how much he scores. Not his team. Only himself!

Kyrie Irving isn't good enough for Ainge to go all-out like this. To give up such a huge trade for or to build a team around. Kyrie doesn't have the talent for that.

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 09:47:05 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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He's still young and there's still time for him to improve.

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 09:48:11 PM »

Offline Kadin

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Blah blah blah

Let Stevens play with his new toys for a while, then we'll talk.

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 09:52:46 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Irving is great.    I remember what people thought about IT before Brad Stevens.     Irving is Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.'n awesome.

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2017, 09:55:01 PM »

Offline max215

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I agree, which is why this is a very bad, no good, terrible trade.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 10:17:29 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I understand the notion, Who, but I'm very optimistic because of Brad Stevens.

Let's remember, Isaiah Thomas when he came to Boston is a capable 20 point scorer, but was coming off the bench in Phoenix. He came off the bench for us at the start and his first full year in Boston, he wasn't as spectacular.

Brad and his crew found a way to fully utilize him and he became that offensive player that he was last year.

I have no reason to doubt that Brad can do to Kyrie what he was able to do with Isaiah.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 10:26:22 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Irving is a top 15 player and can be a top 5-10  player with the right coach
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 10:43:41 PM by CelticsElite »

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 10:38:00 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I can't stand all the negativity in this town. It sucks! Kevin Durant isn't walking through that door. LeBron James isn't walking through that door....


Let's give the kid a chance. With a decent coach and getting that bully off his shoulders I think with this coach and this team he is going to be real special.

Yes I will miss IT and his passion and fight. Crowder was good for his contract but I think he was overrated in his defense. I am not happy with giving up the BKN pick but what is done is done. We have to move on and live for "NOW".

Go Celts!!

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 10:38:55 PM »

Offline moiso

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I understand the notion, Who, but I'm very optimistic because of Brad Stevens.

Let's remember, Isaiah Thomas when he came to Boston is a capable 20 point scorer, but was coming off the bench in Phoenix. He came off the bench for us at the start and his first full year in Boston, he wasn't as spectacular.

Brad and his crew found a way to fully utilize him and he became that offensive player that he was last year.

I have no reason to doubt that Brad can do to Kyrie what he was able to do with Isaiah.
What, make him score more?  Scoring isn't his problem.  Did Stevens make Isaiah a better passer, rebounder, or defender?  I don't think he did.

I pretty much agree with Who.  I never really liked Irving and always thought he was an overrated one dimensional ballhog.  I always try to come around to anyone on the Celtics, but as Who said, that was a nice trade...if it was for someone better.

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 10:45:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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It's just odd to me that Danny passed on guys like Cousins, George, and Butler. All of those guys were cheaper, and more well-rounded. The perception was that Danny passed because of a variety of flaws, whether they be character-related, due to financial issues, or just not being good enough to cash in our assets for. 

Instead, we get Kyrie, who:

* Stopped talking with teammates in the playoffs, and has clashed with coaches and teammates throughout his career (most notably, Waiters);

* Is injury prone;

* Is terrible at defense and mediocre at passing;

* Has not been successful as "the man", both prior to Lebron and during games Lebron misses.

I'd rather have IT and Jimmy Butler than Kyrie, and it's not close. Same thing with IT and PG13, or IT and Boogie.

We traded IT for a bigger, more brittle IT 2.0. For that "upgrade", it cost us Crowder, Zizic, and a potentially generational talent (Bagley, Porter).  It's a price that is pretty much unprecedented in recent NBA history. Chris Paul -- a 26 year old with three All-NBA teams and multiple All-Defense teams -- didn't bring that value. KG and Ray, combined, didn't have that value. Not Carmelo, not Howard, not Shaq, not Harden...  I can't think of a trade in the past 25 years where a team gave up this much present day value, and we did it for a guy who isn't that much better (if at all) than the guy we already had on the roster.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 10:47:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Irving is a top 15 player and can be a top 5-10  player with the right coach

So was IT.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 10:48:26 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Watch a game sometime

Yes... Watch game 5, 3rd quarter where Kyrie rips the Celtics heart scoring 21...while Lebron picks his nose

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 10:51:16 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Watch a game sometime

Yes... Watch game 5, 3rd quarter where Kyrie rips the Celtics heart scoring 21...while Lebron picks his nose

Is this the game you mean?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OBceVp61jzA


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 10:54:09 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Watch a game sometime

Yes... Watch game 5, 3rd quarter where Kyrie rips the Celtics heart scoring 21...while Lebron picks his nose

Is this the game you mean?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OBceVp61jzA

No

This one. Correction Game 4

https://youtu.be/-e8E9CFOqrY

Re: Kyrie Irving isn't good enough ...
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 10:54:16 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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 :o
Deal with it. We still have a lotto pick.
Danny made a calculated gamble.