What's the One Thing Boston fans are undervaluing with trade

[kozlodoev]

edit: double post

[kozlodoev]

Kyrie Irving is 7" taller than Isaiah Thomas.

Kyrie Irving grew to 6'5? Cool, we can just start him at SG down the road.

That would be an 8" difference, Koz (unless IT grew to 5'10"). Thank you for pointing out my fat fingers. I meant 6".

IT grew to 5'10 before he was even drafted. He measured 5'10 1/4 in shoes at the combine.

This!!!

WHY, on a site filled exclusively with Celtics fans, does nobody seem to get this!?!?! 

Did he grow or did he wear these?



He has repeatedly said he is 5'8". 

Lifts crack me up.  Tom Cruise and Sly Stallone wear them all the time.  I remember my dad buying lifts for my nephew when he was about 9 years old and a little short for his age so that he could go on all the rides at Canobe Lake Park and it worked.  I loved it.

I don't care what he has repeatedly said. Someone employed by the league took an actual measurement and that's what he came at: 5'10 1/4 in shoes, 1.5 inch shorter without them (which is a perfectly reasonable allowance for shoes).

If Isaiah wants the world to think that he's 2 inches shorter than his actual playing height so that his feats on the court look even more amazing, that's his business. In the era before draft combine measurements were public, Garnett convinced everyone to list him at 6'11 because he didn't want to play C.

This is really not controversial. Thomas is not as short as some people think he is.

[knuckleballer]

You don't care how tall he personally says he is?  Lol.  Weird.  Ok.  Have you not noticed him standing next to other people?  There are pictures of him standing next to Floyd Mayweather, Mookie Betts, and plenty of others.  He is 5'8".  No question about it. Of course, NBA heights are listed in shoes, but in reality he is 5'8".

[PaulP34]

C's fans have a very short memory---I still recall how we were absolutely Destroyed/Embarrassed in the ECF series---Everyone saying, how can Danny blow up a team that was the #1 seed--?

Cause we got MURDERED by like 40 freaking points a game---the only game we won, was when IT was out.

Good trade.

Tp

[PaulP34]

Im starting to wonder though, with Al Horford being our biggest player, does our success rely on him playing healthy or do we see a trade at the deadline involving him ?

[Somebody]

Im starting to wonder though, with Al Horford being our biggest player, does our success rely on him playing healthy or do we see a trade at the deadline involving him ?

Um we've got Baynes who's bigger than him. To answer your question, any team that has a big with his skillset depends on him staying healthy to some degree. I don't see any team willing to give us anything of value for Horford due to his contract.

[LilRip]

People are undervaluing IT's injury.

It kinda reminds me of when Rondo got his ACL. Technically, he was a walking trip dub threat and we traded him and got a Dallas pick and Crowder, who was an unknown at the time.

[ChillyWilly]

I think Brad went to Danny when Kyrie came available. I'd put my money on why the overpay.

I think that's what we as fans are undervaluing in this trade. Brad wanted Kyrie.

[Big333223]

I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.

Brad has established a nice track record of getting the absolute most out of his players and I think Kyrie is, easily, the most talented player Brad has coached. I'm optimistic.

[SHAQATTACK]

I am still really excited to see what Brad can do with a player with Kyrie's skill level.

Brad has established a nice track record of getting the absolute most out of his players and I think Kyrie is, easily, the most talented player Brad has coached. I'm optimistic.

Last years Celtic team and before was fun . Object is to always get better make the finals  or try something new  , last years squad carried them about as far as they could go with said talent .   

Danny reloaded and I think it will be fun to see if the NEW Celtics can do as well or better hopefully .

Danny did what he is hired to do....try and make the team better every year .  Sometimes it works out , and maybe he is wrong .  But to sit on your hands is boring.

I love the excitment of a new group , new challenge , new rookies

I don't think Irving has ever been in a real structured enviroment for long ,  he was hurt at Duke , not coached much , then put on a scrub team without alot of. coaching , just play .  Then he gets cut short with Blatt .....the Diva wants to do everything his way .....still no more team coaching .....a yes man for LeWhine is brought in to appease the street ball divas.   Irving grew up in a dysfunctional NBA ....lead by a dictator player and not a coach and system.

Irving ,now has a chance to learn the art of TEAM sport basketball.

[CFAN38]

For me its the size window created to compete. Irving is only 25 with good positional size and a game that is not overly dependent on his athleticism. He is a player who barring major injuries should be very effective well into his 30s. The Cs could have their franchise PG for the 8-9 years. It is also the first time in a long time that we have a PG without a major Achilles heal to his game.

Rondo was amazing but I hated watching 6'8 guys play 10' off of him as soon as the playoffs started.

IT (as a bball lover under 5'9) will always hold a special place in my fandom but watching team constantly try to exploit him in the playoffs was growing old.

Not to say Kyrie is perfect. He doesn't play D at the level he should and I hope BS can push him in this regard. The fact that local teachers are going to have to deal with classrooms full of 13 year old boys debating if the earth is flat is also a little bothersome.

[The One]

Undervalued is Kyrie's upside with Brad coaching him up to superstar status.

[Granath]

The most undervalued part of this trade is the ability to now re-sign Marcus Smart.

[Chris22]

The most undervalued part of this trade is the ability to now re-sign Marcus Smart.

Good point.

[Smitty77]

The fact that after this season we would have had to sign IT to a $30m max extension, which would have left is with about $85m worth of cap space committed to the trio of Thomas, Hayward and Horford - a trio that simply is not good enough to forge a contender.  With that trio under contract we'd have had zero cap flexibility for the next 3-4 years and would never get past the ECF.

Kyrie on the other hand is locked in to around $18m over the next 2-3 years, which is much more flexible then the ~$30m we'd be paying Thomas, and that $12M or so saving may be enough to allow is a bit of flexibility to add other talent - in trades at the very least.

Kyrie is already a slightly better overall player then Thomas is and, at 25 years of age, he still has room to improve.  The fact that he's 6'4" and that his game is more dependant on skill than athleticism, means that his game should age well...as opposed to Thomas who will likely drop off a cliff as soon as he starts losing his athleticism - and at 28, will likely start happening in the next 1-3 years).    By that time Kyrie will only just be reaching his prime years and should be at his best...

That's assuming IT even sticks aound, Cleveland may well elect not to re-sign him.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

Though I agree with almost everything you wrote, I don't think it is a sure thing Thomas will get the max. He definitely very much wants it, but I wonder if any team would be crazy enough to give it to him considering he will be 29 next year. If he repeats the same year he had last season and shows recovery from the hip, maybe he could get something like 4yr/100 from a bad team. A good, well-run team would probably not go over 3 years with any offer, with the AAV being a little higher.

Now that he's on the Cavs, maybe LeBron will give his numbers a little boost. I still think that it will be hard for him to stay fresh an entire year, however, especially now that LeBron has to pace himself as well.

Can you name me an NBA player from the past 10 years who has:

* Finished top 3 in scoring
* Made an All-Star team
* Led his team to a #1 seed in the regular season
* Led his team to the conference finals

All in the same year...and then didn't get a max contract after that?

I honestly can't think of anybody who has even finished top 5 in scoring and not gotten a max afterwards. 

There are going to be teams out there who are desperate for a go-to scorer who can cdominate fourth quarters and lose out games - those teams will be willing to pay max money for a guy like Thomas.  If that team happens to also have a need for a PG (or primary ball handler) then that will only solidify their desire to do so.

Not every team will pay max money for Thomas, but many will. 

Look at the Celtics.  Danny Ainge signed to fringe all-stars (Hayward and Horford) and gave max contracts to both of them.  One of those guys was a 30 year old "jack of all trades, master of none" super role player.  The other is an somewhat one dimensional player who is very good on offense but nothing particularly special at anything else.

I would give a max to Thomas before I'd give one to Horford.  I'd potentially even give one to Thomas before I'd give one to Hayward - close call, but I'd probably lean towards Hayward.

I am sadly disappointed that you continue to diss Al after his stellar playoff performance for us DESPITE playing through injury!!

Rather disrespectful IMHO!!

Smitty77