Poll

Initial Reaction: Grade The Trade!

A+
40 (21.2%)
A / A-
37 (19.6%)
B+
28 (14.8%)
B / B-
24 (12.7%)
C+
9 (4.8%)
C / C-
15 (7.9%)
D+
6 (3.2%)
D / D-
6 (3.2%)
F
9 (4.8%)
Incomplete (I Just Can't Give It A Grade Yet)
15 (7.9%)

Total Members Voted: 187

Author Topic: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade  (Read 58992 times)

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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #240 on: May 15, 2018, 08:23:29 PM »

Online rondofan1255

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Crisis averted.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #241 on: May 15, 2018, 08:30:02 PM »

Offline Granath

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Did this trade really come down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Is that it? Am I missing something?
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #242 on: May 15, 2018, 08:32:09 PM »

Online rondofan1255

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Solid A because the pick didn’t end up as high as expected.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #243 on: May 15, 2018, 08:32:14 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Did this trade really come down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Is that it? Am I missing something?

Classic quantity for quality trade!

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #244 on: May 15, 2018, 08:33:37 PM »

Offline Granath

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Did this trade really come down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Is that it? Am I missing something?

Classic quantity for quality trade!

Can someone else double-check this? I feel like I'm missing something...I've got to be missing something. It can't be that lopsided?!?
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #245 on: May 15, 2018, 08:34:01 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Originally gave is a C/C- (lol)

Now I'm giving it a B+ ;D

I'm actually surprised that so many Cavaliers fans are mad. #8 pick isn't horrible.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #246 on: May 16, 2018, 06:26:57 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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The pick was a dead cost the minute we traded it. Don't see whether Cleveland ends up with the 1st pick or the 9th pick that it effects the grade on this trade.

I don't agree. That's like saying that Isaiah's injury or Crowder's disappointing performance in Cleveland doesn't effect the grade because those things happened post-trade.

If the pick tonight ends up being #1 and that guy ends up being the next Lebron or Bird, then history will rightfully crucify the Celtics for making the deal. It's not a second or third order impact, this is directly related to this deal.

You can disagree all you want, but that's not how a business looks at things. If you made an accurate assessment at the time, you move on. They rightfully graded the odds of Brooklyn drafting a LeBron/ Bird as very small. Right now they have a 2.8% chance of getting the #1 pick, and the odds of Ayton/Doncic becoming LeBron/Bird are small on top of that.

This is more like getting a bad beat at the poker table- there's nothing you can do about bad luck.

Logic fail. You can't talk about a 2.8% chance NOW as a "bad beat" when most people thought that pick was a virtual lock for a top 5 spot. Logically you can't have it both ways. If you factor in the 2.8% now then the actual pick slot and player selected follows. If you don't consider the pick probability then this was always going to be valued as a top 5 pick. And in that regard Ainge traded away a top pick in what has appeared for the last two years to be a very talented draft, especially at the top of it.

Projection has always been part of this evaluation. Otherwise, Ainge traded a 28 year old guy for the exact same production from a 25 year old guy (stats don't lie), plus a solid starter plus a likely top 5 pick. That trade sucks on the face of it.

Except then you take into account Kyrie's ability to grow his game, IT's likelihood to maintain that level (not), IT's extra year of higher salary due to his impending contract (though over 2 years that Kyrie would cost more), Crowder's replacement already being on the team, needing to free up minutes for young players and the likely position of that draft pick. That's all based on projection, not on the information at that very moment. What none of us could foresee - including Cleveland apparently - was the severity of IT's injury and how that would impact him long into the season.

And as much as fans here don't like it, if that selection becomes a premier-type pick then it will always be "the Celtics traded away the rights to get that guy" much like we've seen the constant references around here about Tatum and Brown could/should be in Nets uniforms. But since it won't - the Cavs are picking 8th - then it's a different evaluation.
Danny said soon after the trade that they evaluated the Brooklyn pick as very likely to end up falling between 5th and 9th.  I personally had it in the 4-8 range.  There were to many likely tankers in a very good draft year to ever believe, let alone expect that to be a top 5 pick.

There should be NO expectation that Brown or Tatum (or even similar quality players) would have ever ended up playing for the Nets had they chosen not to make the trade.  The Nets may have remained mediocre or better, chosen differently or traded the picks away to someone else at a later date.  It is nonsensical to refer of them as assets the Nets should have.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #247 on: May 16, 2018, 06:43:50 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I give it an A now assuming Irving recovers fully.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #248 on: May 16, 2018, 06:47:44 AM »

Offline TA9

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Did this trade really come down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Is that it? Am I missing something?

Classic quantity for quality trade!
Just like the KG trade ;D!
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #249 on: May 16, 2018, 07:03:16 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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He shut himself down without an injury, consistent with all of his other character issues.  He failed to live up to his predecessor's regular season alone, and his successor has been awesome.  He has a huge hole in his game that detracts from our biggest strength.  Our 20 year old is a more efficient iso scorer and better defender, and our 21 year old is already a better all around player and leader.  We are probably going to the Finals without him. 

Who cares what you gave up for him? The trade was a fail because you wasted a lot of solid assets for a poor return.  The hope is that he and his bruised ego can adjust to not being the best player on the team next year.  If he can't, everyone suffers.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #250 on: May 16, 2018, 07:05:39 AM »

Offline gouki88

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He shut himself down without an injury, consistent with all of his other character issues.  He failed to live up to his predecessor's regular season alone, and his successor has been awesome.  He has a huge hole in his game that detracts from our biggest strength.  Our 20 year old is a more efficient iso scorer and better defender, and our 21 year old is already a better all around player and leader.  We are probably going to the Finals without him. 

Who cares what you gave up for him? The trade was a fail because you wasted a lot of solid assets for a poor return.  The hope is that he and his bruised ego can adjust to not being the best player on the team next year.  If he can't, everyone suffers.
LOL, wow. Hilarious take. Are you serious?

Actually, I remembered all the irrational Kyrie hate you've spewed all season long. You are serious. Yikes
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #251 on: May 16, 2018, 07:30:46 AM »

Offline Big333223

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He shut himself down without an injury, consistent with all of his other character issues.  He failed to live up to his predecessor's regular season alone, and his successor has been awesome.  He has a huge hole in his game that detracts from our biggest strength.  Our 20 year old is a more efficient iso scorer and better defender, and our 21 year old is already a better all around player and leader.  We are probably going to the Finals without him. 

Who cares what you gave up for him? The trade was a fail because you wasted a lot of solid assets for a poor return.  The hope is that he and his bruised ego can adjust to not being the best player on the team next year.  If he can't, everyone suffers.

This is why what you post about Kyrie feels like trolling. It goes without saying you're entitled to whatever opinion you want but this is factually wrong, you know its wrong, and you continue to post it. You're either hating or trolling.
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Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #252 on: May 16, 2018, 07:40:09 AM »

Offline Granath

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Time to put in my final grade. Since it appears that this trade boiled down to:

Kyrie Irving for
#24 pick (Cleveland traded this to get Clarkson)

#8 pick
Jordan Clarkson
Larry Nance Jr.
Zizic
George Hill
#56 2nd round pick

Then there's no question that's a "A". Ainge wins again. From a returns standpoint that's an insane trade.

It's no secret that I wasn't overjoyed with the deal. I didn't hate it and I understood it but I wasn't exceptionally pleased with it. Some people misinterpret this as being an IT homer. I understood why it made sense to ship him off (even before we knew the extent of his injury). It's because I had, and still have, serious reservations about Irving's true value. I don't value him nearly as highly as others here. There's an argument to be made that he's not even the best PG on this team. He'll outscore and outshoot Rozier and neither is a particularly good passer; but Terry is a far better rebound and miles better on the defensive end. If Rozier is as good as these playoffs suggest then that's a much closer battle than some will admit. Kyrie is a big name but I don't think he plays like a superstar. I don't think he showed much growth with his game this year either.

However, Irving has far more value then anything else we gave away. IT appears to be broken. Crowder looks like a (valuable) bench contributor for Utah. The pick ended up being worse than most of us expected. Meanwhile, if we wanted to pair Irving with a pick we could swing a deal for another superstar (Leonard? Cousins?). Meanwhile, even if we keep Irving the value is far higher for this team than what we ultimately disposed of.

So yeah, this was ultimately a deal that really hurt the Cs biggest competitor and didn't hurt the Celtics at all. That's an A in my book.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #253 on: May 16, 2018, 08:55:30 AM »

Offline aefgogreen

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He shut himself down without an injury, consistent with all of his other character issues.  He failed to live up to his predecessor's regular season alone, and his successor has been awesome.  He has a huge hole in his game that detracts from our biggest strength.  Our 20 year old is a more efficient iso scorer and better defender, and our 21 year old is already a better all around player and leader.  We are probably going to the Finals without him. 

Who cares what you gave up for him? The trade was a fail because you wasted a lot of solid assets for a poor return.  The hope is that he and his bruised ego can adjust to not being the best player on the team next year.  If he can't, everyone suffers.

He shut himself down?  I don't remember it that way, could somebody confirm?

Re: Poll: Give The Kyrie Irving-To-Boston Trade A Letter Grade
« Reply #254 on: May 16, 2018, 09:02:15 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Kyrie > 8 th pick Crowder , Cripple IT

Kyrie is a special tatent .   Not even close

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