Author Topic: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me  (Read 1492 times)

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Re: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2017, 08:10:29 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Paul Silas
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Well this is why this trade makes sense to me.

With regard to the Nets pick, I think it is the least valuable of Brown, Tatum, Lakers/Sac picks.  Brown and Tatum are know commodities and the Celtics like both very much.  Danny values the Lakers/Sac pick higher than the Nets pick.  If Brooklyn played out the next season in the West and the Eastern Conference, they would have a worst record playing in the West.  So I think Danny feels the Lakers will have a more difficult time winning games this year than the Nets.  Also people over value the impact that Ball will have on the Lakers win total for this year.  No rookie that has only played one year of CBB has lead a team to the playoffs.  If you look at A. Davis, as good as he is, he can not lead NO to the playoffs.  Not sure why people think Ball will lead the Lakers to a good record this year.  Also teams will be gunning for Ball and the Lakers in a tough Western Conference.  So I would rank these assets as follows.

1.)  Tatum
2.)  Brown
3.)  Lakers/Sac pick
4.)  Nets 2018 pick

Also I look at this trade as a straight up trade of Irving for the Nets pick.  IT, Jae and Zizic are just added to the trade to make salaries work.  IT is damaged goods and we were not going to sign him anyway.  Jae is a role player, with a good contract.  Zizic is a bit of a mystery to me, but I am sure the FO has seen enough to not flinch in putting him into the trade.

So I would trade our 4th best asset in the Nets pick for Kyrie straight up all day long.
Not everyone ranks those assets in the same order that you do.  I would go 1- Tatum, 2- Nets pick, with Brown and the Lakers/sac pick about equal. 

I think the Lakers will be quite a bit better than they were last year.  Not just because of Ball like you claim people think is the main reason.  Lopez is a much better player than D'Angelo Russell currently, and I expect Ingram to improve a lot from year one to year two.  Add in the dose of unselfishness that Ball brings, and the team looks much better than last years version.

Re: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2017, 08:36:38 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
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Well this is why this trade makes sense to me.

With regard to the Nets pick, I think it is the least valuable of Brown, Tatum, Lakers/Sac picks.  Brown and Tatum are know commodities and the Celtics like both very much.  Danny values the Lakers/Sac pick higher than the Nets pick.  If Brooklyn played out the next season in the West and the Eastern Conference, they would have a worst record playing in the West.  So I think Danny feels the Lakers will have a more difficult time winning games this year than the Nets.  Also people over value the impact that Ball will have on the Lakers win total for this year.  No rookie that has only played one year of CBB has lead a team to the playoffs.  If you look at A. Davis, as good as he is, he can not lead NO to the playoffs.  Not sure why people think Ball will lead the Lakers to a good record this year.  Also teams will be gunning for Ball and the Lakers in a tough Western Conference.  So I would rank these assets as follows.

1.)  Tatum
2.)  Brown
3.)  Lakers/Sac pick
4.)  Nets 2018 pick

Also I look at this trade as a straight up trade of Irving for the Nets pick.  IT, Jae and Zizic are just added to the trade to make salaries work.  IT is damaged goods and we were not going to sign him anyway.  Jae is a role player, with a good contract.  Zizic is a bit of a mystery to me, but I am sure the FO has seen enough to not flinch in putting him into the trade.

So I would trade our 4th best asset in the Nets pick for Kyrie straight up all day long.
Not everyone ranks those assets in the same order that you do.  I would go 1- Tatum, 2- Nets pick, with Brown and the Lakers/sac pick about equal. 

I think the Lakers will be quite a bit better than they were last year.  Not just because of Ball like you claim people think is the main reason.  Lopez is a much better player than D'Angelo Russell currently, and I expect Ingram to improve a lot from year one to year two.  Add in the dose of unselfishness that Ball brings, and the team looks much better than last years version.

Personally, I would probably rate them as follows:

1. Tatum
2. Brooklyn 1st
3. Brown
4. Lakers Pick

Main reason being that, as you said, the Lakers look much improved this year.  They aren't going to make the playoffs, but they could be good enough to finish 6th , 7th or 8th last in which case the value of that Lakers pick drops off a cliff.

To make matters worse if they DO go in the other direction and finish bottom two, then I believe we wouldn't even get the pick...

So for that pick to have any value we need to be pretty darn lucky and hope that the Lakers finish somewehre in the bottom 5 - and even then the lottery could kill it's value if the ping pong balls don't fall the right way.

The Brooklyn pick is so much more valuable since there are no protections at all on that pick, so matter where it falls the owner keeps it.  And looking at Brooklyn right now, I can't see how they could possible finish any better then 3rd last.   I mean honestly, DeMarre Carroll may well be LEGITIMATELY the best player on that Nets roster right now...and that's shocking.  Even on the Bulls last (who finished with the 8h seed in the weak east) he'd have been the 3rd or 4th best player, so if he is your best player you really have no hope.   

Lakers on the other hand could be better then people think.  The Nets, Magic, Hawks, Pacers, Bulls and Kings should all be utterly garbage this year.  The Lakers could very easily be better then all of those teams, and if so that puts them to the 7th last spot.   The Jazz could potentially be pretty bad after losing Hayward, so that could push them to 8th.  The Pelicans struggled even with the Davis/Cousins pairing last season, so if those guys fail to click they could well prove to be crap again, potentially pushing the Lakers to 9th last.  The Knicks seem to struggle no matter how much talent they have, and they just lost Derrick Rose...meaning their entire hopes now rest on Melo and Porzingis -neither of whom seem to genuinely want to be there.   If they come out really bad, that could push the Lakers to 10th last.  Now suddenly that Lakers pick is falling late lottery and has minimal value.

One thing we do know is that the Lakers pick cannot possible fall to us any higher then 3rd overall, because if it does we lose it...so the highest value that pick can possibly have is 3rd - whereas the Brooklyn pick could be as high as #1. 

So I agree with you completely - there is no way that Lakers pick has as much value to other teams as the Nets one.  In fact the Nets pick may well be more valuable to other teams then even Tatum.   


Re: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2017, 11:43:28 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 418
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Well this is why this trade makes sense to me.

With regard to the Nets pick, I think it is the least valuable of Brown, Tatum, Lakers/Sac picks.  Brown and Tatum are know commodities and the Celtics like both very much.  Danny values the Lakers/Sac pick higher than the Nets pick.  If Brooklyn played out the next season in the West and the Eastern Conference, they would have a worst record playing in the West.  So I think Danny feels the Lakers will have a more difficult time winning games this year than the Nets.  Also people over value the impact that Ball will have on the Lakers win total for this year.  No rookie that has only played one year of CBB has lead a team to the playoffs.  If you look at A. Davis, as good as he is, he can not lead NO to the playoffs.  Not sure why people think Ball will lead the Lakers to a good record this year.  Also teams will be gunning for Ball and the Lakers in a tough Western Conference.  So I would rank these assets as follows.

1.)  Tatum
2.)  Brown
3.)  Lakers/Sac pick
4.)  Nets 2018 pick

Also I look at this trade as a straight up trade of Irving for the Nets pick.  IT, Jae and Zizic are just added to the trade to make salaries work.  IT is damaged goods and we were not going to sign him anyway.  Jae is a role player, with a good contract.  Zizic is a bit of a mystery to me, but I am sure the FO has seen enough to not flinch in putting him into the trade.

So I would trade our 4th best asset in the Nets pick for Kyrie straight up all day long.

YES!
This is exactly how I see it.

Re: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2017, 11:54:33 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

  • Al Horford
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I do think the Lakers are better than they were last year but so is like every other team in the West. The only team I think the Lakers are actually better than in the west are the Kings so the Lakers will be pretty much playing better teams in them every game in the west is only one team that they have a chance to be and that's the Kings and even then the Kings have a chance to beat them too.  For the Lakers may have more Talent than some of the teams in the East because these less town of the teams will be playing lots of games against other less than all the teams in the East they have a better chance of finishing with more wins than the Lakers.  That's why I believe that Brooklyn will end up with a better record than Los Angeles.  I used to think that the Lakers pick wasn't as good as the Brooklyn pick but then when the traders made I thought why would they do the Brooklyn if Cleveland would have been willing to take the Lakers pick and then I looked at the teams and looked at the rosters and I realize that the Lakers pick probably better than the Brooklyn pick.

Re: Why the Irving Trade Makes Sense to me
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2017, 11:56:24 PM »

Offline azzenfrost

  • Kyrie Irving
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I think people are still too hung up on what-could've-been-with-PG/JB. That didn't happen. Let it go. This trade did happen. Cavs did good. But the C's didn't lose either.
I moved the cheese.

 

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