We got the best player in the deal. And he hasn't reached his prime yet

[cman88]

The winner/loser of the trade wont be decided until a year or more down the road. there are some uncertainties in it.

1. How good with BKN 18 pick be? If it is top 3, celts gave up a lot. if BKN improves enough(with enough other teams tanking) that it ends up 5-6 then advantage boston.

2. How healthy is Isaiah, and do you view him as the piece who was going to bring you to a championship? Ainge made an interesting comment with "irving fits our timeline better" which means Ainge doesn't really view the c's as "true contenders" until 2-3 years from now. When Irving hits his prime and jaylen/tatum are developed.

3. Will Thomas/Lebron stay in Cleveland? if they both bolt next year, all the Cavs are banking on is how good the BKN pick is. Or, the pick could be #1, Thomas stays and they trade the pick for another star. It really could go either way.

[chambers]

Per 36 numbers
                          FG%   3%    2%    FT%  FTA   REB   AST  STL  To   Pts      PER  WS
Thomas Career   .443   .367  .491   .876    6.6    3.1   6.2   1.2  2.9  23.0   21.0  45.0
Kyrie's  Career    .457   .383  .505   .873    4.7    3.3   5.8   1.4  2.8  22.8   21.3  40.0

Thomas 2016     .463   .379   .528  .909    9.1    2.9   6.3   1.0  2.8  30.8    26.5 12.5
Kyrie     2016     .473   .401   .486  .905    4.7    3.6   6.0   1.2  2.6  25.9    23.0  8.9

Age:
Thomas:27
Kyrie: 24

Seriously... Terrible trade. 
 

This thing called context matters. IT was the sole true scoring threat on our team with no other 20 ppg scorers; Kyrie had two other true scoring threats on his team that were 20+ ppg scorers.

Kyrie played more minutes, had more shot attempts, and often avoided double teams due to being set up by the best player in the world.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kyrie+Irving&player_id2_select=Kyrie+Irving&y2=2017&player_id2=irvinky01&idx=players

Kyrie is a heck of a talent, but he's not clearly better than IT. In fact, the stats say the opposite.

here are some stats for you Roy. I'd also take into consideration how much better Stevens will make Kyrie....

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=24&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=25&c2stat=fg2_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=50&c6stat=tov_per_poss&order_by=season

[BitterJim]

Hey all that matters is that it is undeniable that Kyrie is better in the playoffs.

Thats all that matters, end of discussion. We have a clutch champion who has beaten Golden State on our team. 

End of discussion.

Well, no, that's not "undeniable". Isaiah has never had a player like Lebron to take pressure off of him and prevent double/triple teams, yet he STILL was a force in the playoffs.  As for Kyrie, we have yet to see him dealing with the kind of defensive focus that IT got.

It's entirely possible that Kyre is better in the playoffs than IT, but just looking at playoff success and ignoring context does not end the discussion by any means.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Hey all that matters is that it is undeniable that Kyrie is better in the playoffs.

Thats all that matters, end of discussion. We have a clutch champion who has beaten Golden State on our team. 

End of discussion.

Well, no, that's not "undeniable". Isaiah has never had a player like Lebron to take pressure off of him and prevent double/triple teams, yet he STILL was a force in the playoffs.  As for Kyrie, we have yet to see him dealing with the kind of defensive focus that IT got.

It's entirely possible that Kyre is better in the playoffs than IT, but just looking at playoff success and ignoring context does not end the discussion by any means.

So we mustn't ignore context when people argue we have traded a 29 ppg player. The whole system was destined for him to execute almost every play, while Irving had to share the load with the best player in the planet and a 26 ppg (in Minnesota) player.

[Celtics4ever]

We added a few million this year, but it potentially saves us ~$17 million next year (~$7 million from not having Jae and ~$10 million from Irving's contract vs. a max for IT).  That probably means that keeping Smart/letting him go will be a basketball decision instead of a cap/tax decision

Thanks TP

[Moranis]

We added a few million this year, but it potentially saves us ~$17 million next year (~$7 million from not having Jae and ~$10 million from Irving's contract vs. a max for IT).  That probably means that keeping Smart/letting him go will be a basketball decision instead of a cap/tax decision

Thanks TP

Don't forget the BKN salary which would probably be at least 5 million is also gone.

[Chris22]

IT could not even make it through the playoffs, and people here are saying that he and Kyrie have the same value.
LOL

Kyrie couldn't make it through the 2015 playoffs, and has played 60 fewer regular season games than Thomas (including missing 29 games in 2015-16). Does that mean that he can't possibly be considered valuable, either?

Kyrie is bigger and stronger and more likely to survive the playoffs. he's also a better all around player.
IT has been in one playoff, and he couldn't even get through it.

[tenn_smoothie]

Seems they were saying the same thing when Danny broke up championship chemistry in pursuit of "best player" Jeff Green.

[byennie]

We added a few million this year, but it potentially saves us ~$17 million next year (~$7 million from not having Jae and ~$10 million from Irving's contract vs. a max for IT).  That probably means that keeping Smart/letting him go will be a basketball decision instead of a cap/tax decision

Thanks TP

Don't forget the BKN salary which would probably be at least 5 million is also gone.

Irving: $20.1M
Crowder: $7.3M
BKN pick: ~$5M
Thomas: $32.4M (30% of $108M projection)

= $24.6M savings in 2018-19

Salary cap savings isn't sexy, but that's a really big difference... roughly the gap between the salary cap and the luxury tax for example.

[kozlodoev]

He may or may not be here for his prime so there is that.

100% correct and entirely irrelevant. The same goes for every other player in the trade, including whomever we might have drafted or acquired with the BKN pick.

Right, but we're not raving about any other player or the BKN pick, we're raving about Kyrie Irving.

[Big333223]

There's lots to consider with this trade but I think Kyrie has not played his best basketball yet and I think Isaiah Thomas' best ball is behind him now.

[BitterJim]

IT could not even make it through the playoffs, and people here are saying that he and Kyrie have the same value.
LOL

Kyrie couldn't make it through the 2015 playoffs, and has played 60 fewer regular season games than Thomas (including missing 29 games in 2015-16). Does that mean that he can't possibly be considered valuable, either?

Kyrie is bigger and stronger and more likely to survive the playoffs. he's also a better all around player.

Bigger and stronger and yet he's missed more games. Size and strength don't make you less injury prone.

IT has been in one playoff, and he couldn't even get through it.

What? IT has been to the playoffs 3 times (2015, 2016, and 2017). Coincidentally, that's also how many times Kyrie has been to the playoffs

[BitterJim]

Hey all that matters is that it is undeniable that Kyrie is better in the playoffs.

Thats all that matters, end of discussion. We have a clutch champion who has beaten Golden State on our team. 

End of discussion.

Well, no, that's not "undeniable". Isaiah has never had a player like Lebron to take pressure off of him and prevent double/triple teams, yet he STILL was a force in the playoffs.  As for Kyrie, we have yet to see him dealing with the kind of defensive focus that IT got.

It's entirely possible that Kyre is better in the playoffs than IT, but just looking at playoff success and ignoring context does not end the discussion by any means.

So we mustn't ignore context when people argue we have traded a 29 ppg player. The whole system was destined for him to execute almost every play, while Irving had to share the load with the best player in the planet and a 26 ppg (in Minnesota) player.

And we shouldn't ignore that those 29 points were with historic efficiency. He wasn't just chucking his way to a ton of points; he was scoring a ton, extremely efficiently, with all of the defense's attention.  It's unlikely he ever reaches the same number of points again, but it wouldn't be too surprising if his efficiency increased playing next to Lebron

[SparzWizard]

Bumping this thread because last year we made it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Isaiah Thomas.

This year, we made it to the Eastern Conference Finals with Kyrie Irving who is out for the season.

Safe to say the Celtics still won this deal, highway robbery LOL.

[celticsclay]

There's lots to consider with this trade but I think Kyrie has not played his best basketball yet and I think Isaiah Thomas' best ball is behind him now.

A prophet