Author Topic: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.  (Read 4211 times)

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Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2017, 04:36:07 PM »

Offline byennie

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The only question in this trade IMO is whether we overpaid. In terms of long-term plans, it makes a lot of sense.

I think IT had a better offensive season last year and is a great guy, but Irving is more valuable considering the 2 years under contract, younger, healthier, playoff mismatch problems, and better overall upside. So IT + something does make sense.

Crowder, Zizic, BKN is a hell of a "something", but: Crowder had become our 4th or 5th most valuable wing. Zizic is likely a role player. BKN pick is hard to rate, but you could definitely argue it's worth less than Brown or Tatum (known quantities who we rated #3 and #1 in their draft classes).

Ainge wanted to get two young All-Stars locked up and he did it, while keeping his 3 favorite young players (Smart, Brown, Tatum) and conjuring up the LAL pick along the way.

Eyes on the big picture. We're even in great shape cap-wise, compared to any other team with multiple stars under contract.
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Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2017, 05:23:32 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'm done.
First it was the K. Perkins trade that cost the C's a potential championship.
Then it was Tony Allen, James Posey, Rondo, Avery Bradley, etc., and now IT.
Snake Danny "loves" all these guys- yeah right!. The minute he gets a player he's on the phone trying to trade him.
No loyalty, no pride, no tradition, no stability- just constant shuffling of the deck.
And this latest trade sucks.
I've been a fan for almost 50 years but this is really the last straw.
The best part of watching the C's this year wil be Scal and Draper, plus Tommy. But I have no interest anymore.

Bingo.

I've been looking for the post-Garnett trade Brickowski post, and this one is it.

What do you think of this trade @coachbo?

Hate it? Meh? Love it?

I'm fine with it. Stevens will expand Kyrie's game - first time he's played for a real coach. The Nets are going to be improved, so the pick should be somewhere around 7, I would expect. Crowder is an expendable piece and Zizic looked awful in summer league. I hope Rollie isn't on suicide watch because the Lithuanian Leadfoot has been moved.

The Celtics got better last night, short term and long term. Thomas did a lot for this franchise, but this franchise did a lot for him. I'm fine with the trade. One of Ainge's better moves.

I actually never thought about the coach thing, but you're right.

Stevens is WAY better than anyone Cleveland has had. TP for that.

I hope you're right about Nets Pick but idk, the fact that Lakers can only convey 2-5 scares me. Wish it was something like 2-7. Even if it's on the lower end, I WANT a Top-10 pick out of this draft. Not having it convey would be brutal...

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2017, 05:33:52 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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I'm done.
First it was the K. Perkins trade that cost the C's a potential championship.
Then it was Tony Allen, James Posey, Rondo, Avery Bradley, etc., and now IT.
Snake Danny "loves" all these guys- yeah right!. The minute he gets a player he's on the phone trying to trade him.
No loyalty, no pride, no tradition, no stability- just constant shuffling of the deck.
And this latest trade sucks.
I've been a fan for almost 50 years but this is really the last straw.
The best part of watching the C's this year wil be Scal and Draper, plus Tommy. But I have no interest anymore.

Bingo.

I've been looking for the post-Garnett trade Brickowski post, and this one is it.

What do you think of this trade @coachbo?

Hate it? Meh? Love it?

I'm fine with it. Stevens will expand Kyrie's game - first time he's played for a real coach. The Nets are going to be improved, so the pick should be somewhere around 7, I would expect. Crowder is an expendable piece and Zizic looked awful in summer league. I hope Rollie isn't on suicide watch because the Lithuanian Leadfoot has been moved.

The Celtics got better last night, short term and long term. Thomas did a lot for this franchise, but this franchise did a lot for him. I'm fine with the trade. One of Ainge's better moves.

I think the jury is out on the trade for the long term. This draft class looks pretty amazing at the top and we just traded one of those guys away to really just draw even with the Cavs in the East. We're running out of assets to make big moves and we're still not in the same ballpark as GS.

Great, I'm glad we're one of the three top teams on the league but in my opinion trading away Ante and the Brooklyn pick especially for an upgrade at a position that was already one of our assumed strengths coming into the season reeks of shooting the moon and coming up short.

Our big rotation aside from Horford is as atrocious as ever and our rebounding will again be an abomination, possibly worse..

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2017, 05:52:44 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I'm done.
First it was the K. Perkins trade that cost the C's a potential championship.
Then it was Tony Allen, James Posey, Rondo, Avery Bradley, etc., and now IT.
Snake Danny "loves" all these guys- yeah right!. The minute he gets a player he's on the phone trying to trade him.
No loyalty, no pride, no tradition, no stability- just constant shuffling of the deck.
And this latest trade sucks.
I've been a fan for almost 50 years but this is really the last straw.
The best part of watching the C's this year wil be Scal and Draper, plus Tommy. But I have no interest anymore.

Bingo.

I've been looking for the post-Garnett trade Brickowski post, and this one is it.

What do you think of this trade @coachbo?

Hate it? Meh? Love it?

I'm fine with it. Stevens will expand Kyrie's game - first time he's played for a real coach. The Nets are going to be improved, so the pick should be somewhere around 7, I would expect. Crowder is an expendable piece and Zizic looked awful in summer league. I hope Rollie isn't on suicide watch because the Lithuanian Leadfoot has been moved.

The Celtics got better last night, short term and long term. Thomas did a lot for this franchise, but this franchise did a lot for him. I'm fine with the trade. One of Ainge's better moves.

I think the jury is out on the trade for the long term. This draft class looks pretty amazing at the top and we just traded one of those guys away to really just draw even with the Cavs in the East. We're running out of assets to make big moves and we're still not in the same ballpark as GS.

Great, I'm glad we're one of the three top teams on the league but in my opinion trading away Ante and the Brooklyn pick especially for an upgrade at a position that was already one of our assumed strengths coming into the season reeks of shooting the moon and coming up short.

Our big rotation aside from Horford is as atrocious as ever and our rebounding will again be an abomination, possibly worse..

Not saying it will be a huge upgrade at all, but I think they REALLY need to go after a big man using the remaining exception they have. They NEED depth behind Horford and Baynes.

And I agree with most of what you say.

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2017, 04:51:21 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Lol and even Mazz is surprised Ainge made this move. We all are..

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2017, 12:10:34 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I feel conflicted now.

As much as I hate the trade, now that there's a chance to have it voided, I'm having second thoughts about it LOL.

Strange but funny times these are.

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2017, 03:47:30 AM »

Offline iadera

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The only thing that Ainge could do, if in some scenario the trade is canceled, is to try to go with same players + another picks and players after Davis.

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2017, 10:59:28 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Kyrie Irving with 9 points, 3 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 turnover and a -4 rating.

Isaiah Thomas meanwhile with 0 turnovers and a 0 rating to start the season.

This Irving trade = BUST!  :laugh:


Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2017, 12:04:19 AM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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IT is hurt.  He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.  At one point in the summer IT said he would be ready to start the season, now he is mid to late December at best.  His game is based on his speed.  It is more likely then not that he will lose a step with this injury.  He'll still be able to spot up for 3's and blow by slow mediocre defenders but he is done vs quicker defenders.  I think he is done as an all star.  I do not think he will get a max deal from Cleveland and will go to a below average team for a chance to stay the man rather than come off the bench on a contender for 6th man money.  Cleveland asked for extra because the realized IT was hurt worse than he was letting on during all his talk about how he would be back better than ever. People have be screaming for Danny to trade one of the Brooklyn picks and now that he did and netted a legit all star who has that cold blooded knock out end game and people want to complain. We bought low on IT and sold high.  Add IT to one of one season wonder videos or documentaries because he is not going to be the player he was last year again. 

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2017, 06:37:29 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.

Very few players have had hip surgery. The one star player who did, Lamarcus Aldridge, played at an all-star level after his return.


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Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2017, 07:05:31 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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IT is hurt.  He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.  At one point in the summer IT said he would be ready to start the season, now he is mid to late December at best.  His game is based on his speed.  It is more likely then not that he will lose a step with this injury.  He'll still be able to spot up for 3's and blow by slow mediocre defenders but he is done vs quicker defenders.  I think he is done as an all star.  I do not think he will get a max deal from Cleveland and will go to a below average team for a chance to stay the man rather than come off the bench on a contender for 6th man money.  Cleveland asked for extra because the realized IT was hurt worse than he was letting on during all his talk about how he would be back better than ever. People have be screaming for Danny to trade one of the Brooklyn picks and now that he did and netted a legit all star who has that cold blooded knock out end game and people want to complain. We bought low on IT and sold high.  Add IT to one of one season wonder videos or documentaries because he is not going to be the player he was last year again.

I highly doubt that's true.

And maybe he doesn't replicate his 29/6 MVP-worthy season, but it seems like a stretch to say he's essentially "done".

If he comes back 2nd half pretty much healthy and still getting 23-25 PPG, that's an all-star caliber player still.

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2017, 07:10:58 PM »

Offline mctyson

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He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.

Very few players have had hip surgery. The one star player who did, Lamarcus Aldridge, played at an all-star level after his return.

Do not compare plodding bigs to a 5'9" PG who needs every ounce of bounce and burst to succeed.

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 07:39:27 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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https://twitter.com/tonymassarotti/status/753715692294242308

Mazz said that^ (link) in response to the Drew Pomeranz trade the Red Sox did last summer, and frankly, I thought the same thing about that one lol (a Top-15 prospect in ALL of MLB for a dang #3-4 starter???).

But this trade, is AWFUL. Cleveland won it.

Kyrie Irving is NOT that much better than Isaiah Thomas, and the fact that they needed to include the Brooklyn Pick in this deal (with NO protections)... YIKES. I'm not super upset about losing Zizic and Crowder (although I will miss Crowder a ton), but this deal overall.... YUCK.

Say what you want about Isaiah Thomas, but he's the ONLY reason this team made the playoffs in 2015 and made the ECF last season. He also got Hayward and Horford here and did get us a meeting with Durant that summer we got Horford too. And even after all that he's done... just seeing him traded away like this makes it look like the Celtics did him dirty.

I'm sorry, but I'm NOT a fan of this trade one bit. It will look A LOT worse if Brooklyn's pick lands 1-3 and the Cavs get any of Porter or Bagley (YUCK again...).

And what exactly is our big man depth behind Horford now? Baynes... then who?

1.  Irving is better then Thomas - watching yesterday, he showed some legit flashes of passing ability and defensive effort that I've never seen before from him (or from Thomas, for that matter).  If he keeps up that defensive effort then he's going to be so much better then Thomas that it's not even funny.  If he doesn't keep it up and remains a major defensive liability, then he'll still be better then Thomas.

2. I take it you didn't watch Baynes and Theis play yesterday?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 08:05:56 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 07:40:13 PM »

Offline incoherent

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He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.

Very few players have had hip surgery. The one star player who did, Lamarcus Aldridge, played at an all-star level after his return.

Do not compare plodding bigs to a 5'9" PG who needs every ounce of bounce and burst to succeed.

He's not comparing them. He is simply pointing out how incorrect the statement he quoted is.


Re: To Quote What Tony Massarotti Once Said: I. HATE. THIS. TRADE.
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 08:23:02 PM »

Online Eddie20

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He didn't want surgery because no one has ever returned to from from that particular surgery to play at a high level.

Very few players have had hip surgery. The one star player who did, Lamarcus Aldridge, played at an all-star level after his return.

Do not compare plodding bigs to a 5'9" PG who needs every ounce of bounce and burst to succeed.

Yeah, plus it seems that unlike Thomas, who continued playing on a bad hip, Aldridge had surgery immediately. As the Thomas ESPN article points out, "If you have a patient who has an acute injury and has cartilage damage, I find it's better to intervene earlier than later," Philippon says, "because the longer you wait with these injuries, that tends to lead to more problems."

Compare that to Aldridge's case:

Portland Trail Blazers forward/center LaMarcus Aldridge will undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right hip to repair a labral tear and will miss the remainder of the season, it was announced today by the team.

"In his most recent MRI, and following further evaluation, it's been determined that LaMarcus has a slight labral tear and will require arthroscopic surgery," said Acting General Manager Chad Buchanan. "LaMarcus' priority is that he's 100-percent healthy going into training camp this fall and we all feel this is the best course. He's had an All-Star year and his long-term health is the most important thing to consider."

Aldridge told reporters in Portland on Thursday that he had suffered a "very slight" tear and that he expected his recovery period would take 2-4 months. Aldridge said that he could possibly make a return in time to compete for USA Basketball during the 2012 Olympics but also noted that he wouldn't "push it."

"Talking to the doctor over and over again, this is very precautionary and very smart to do right now because it's a very small tear right now," Aldridge said. "If you play on it and wait, it could become something major."