Author Topic: Calling it Now - Celtics Win the East; IT and Lebron are a Terrible Fit Together  (Read 848 times)

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Offline jpotter33

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I ultimately think Cleveland made this trade primarily for the Brooklyn pick, with IT and Crowder being nice throw-ins to make them continued contenders this year, but I just do not see IT, Lebron, and Love working together.

First off, defensively, that 1/4 pick and roll is going to be absolutely impossible for Cleveland to guard. They were a terrible defensive team last year, and they replaced Kyrie with the worst defender in the league, who is also a major mismatch defensively with his lack of size. Think about it - Brad can LITERALLY post up IT with one of Kyrie, Smart, or Brown every single time down the court. And we all saw what Wall and Beal did to him last year.

Second, offensively, both IT and Lebron are used to having the ball in their hands, and they're both much better on the ball than off the ball. What's more, this is a contract year for IT, and he's going to want to showcase that he's back healed from injury. And after being "the man" here in Boston the last several years, I'm not sure IT can easily transition into being secondary behind Lebron.

I think tremendous friction and chemistry issues end up developing between these two, and I could very well see Lebron pulling a 2010 and "checking out" looking toward the summer and switching teams.
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Offline the TRUTH

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I ultimately think Cleveland made this trade primarily for the Brooklyn pick, with IT and Crowder being nice throw-ins to make them continued contenders this year, but I just do not see IT, Lebron, and Love working together.

First off, defensively, that 1/4 pick and roll is going to be absolutely impossible for Cleveland to guard. They were a terrible defensive team last year, and they replaced Kyrie with the worst defender in the league, who is also a major mismatch defensively with his lack of size. Think about it - Brad can LITERALLY post up IT with one of Kyrie, Smart, or Brown every single time down the court. And we all saw what Wall and Beal did to him last year.

Second, offensively, both IT and Lebron are used to having the ball in their hands, and they're both much better on the ball than off the ball. What's more, this is a contract year for IT, and he's going to want to showcase that he's back healed from injury. And after being "the man" here in Boston the last several years, I'm not sure IT can easily transition into being secondary behind Lebron.

I think tremendous friction and chemistry issues end up developing between these two, and I could very well see Lebron pulling a 2010 and "checking out" looking toward the summer and switching teams.

I love IT for what he did here, but I hope you're right because I hate the Cavs.

I agree with you that defensively, the Cavs probably got worse with regard to the Irving/IT exchange. However, Crowder may immediately become the best defender on that team, and his defense will be missed in Boston. 

What concerns me about IT now being in Cleveland is that he was phenomenal offensively for us when the game was on the line, and we didn't have anywhere near the offensive weapons surrounding him that Cleveland will. At least in my opinion, I've never felt that LeBron really wanted the ball in his hands down the stretch, and that's what made Irving so valuable to the Cavs. No way do they beat Golden State in '16 without Irving, and we very well may have made the '17 ECF a lot more interesting if Irving hadn't been there.

So while James and IT both thrive with the ball in their hands, I could see them having really good chemistry on the offensive end because IT can fill Irving's former role as the go-to scorer down the stretch. And as long as IT is healthy, he may be even better in Cleveland than he was with us due to all of the offensive weapons surrounding him. I think IT would be okay with playing "second fiddle" for three quarters and then having the opportunity to be the man in the fourth quarter for a contending team.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and that things get ugly in Cleveland.

Offline cltc5

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Agree jp.  IT is a shoot first guard.  Good luck with that.

Offline Rosco917

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Rose and IT as backcourt mates, who defends. The Cavs got worse on D...IF IT plays for an entire season.

IMO The reason the Nets pick had to be included was because the injury with IT's hip has a real possibility of surfacing again, and the Cavs and C's know it.

There will be growing pains though, we're starting 3 new players. Should be fun.

Offline blink

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Rose and IT as backcourt mates, who defends. The Cavs got worse on D...IF IT plays for an entire season.

IMO The reason the Nets pick had to be included was because the injury with IT's hip has a real possibility of surfacing again, and the Cavs and C's know it.

There will be growing pains though, we're starting 3 new players. Should be fun.

Aren't we really starting 4 new players? (It, Avery, Crowder, Amir)???

But I completely agree with your take.  Gonna be a pretty major adjustment period.

Offline max215

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This is wishful thinking, JP. The Cavs got better. They swapped Kyrie for IT (a lateral move, at worst) and added Crowder. Meanwhile, we got worse. What we've done is increase our odds of winning the East in 2-3 years when Isaiah is firmly on the decline and Kyrie is hitting his prime. That's the bright side...if you're inclined to look for one.
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Offline Rhyso

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This is wishful thinking, JP. The Cavs got better. They swapped Kyrie for IT (a lateral move, at worst) and added Crowder. Meanwhile, we got worse. What we've done is increase our odds of winning the East in 2-3 years when Isaiah is firmly on the decline and Kyrie is hitting his prime. That's the bright side...if you're inclined to look for one.

Sorry, how did we get worse? We made a 'lateral move' for Kyrie, swapped Crowder for Morris (slight edge to Crowder), Hayward for Bradley (edge to Hayward), swapped Amir for Baynes (??), and lost Olynyk for Tatum. Also Zizic wasn't going to see the floor this year. Chemistry wise we will be starting from scratch, on paper though I'm not seeing how we got worse. 

Offline Miranda-Kerr

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This is wishful thinking, JP. The Cavs got better. They swapped Kyrie for IT (a lateral move, at worst) and added Crowder. Meanwhile, we got worse. What we've done is increase our odds of winning the East in 2-3 years when Isaiah is firmly on the decline and Kyrie is hitting his prime. That's the bright side...if you're inclined to look for one.

Sorry, how did we get worse? We made a 'lateral move' for Kyrie, swapped Crowder for Morris (slight edge to Crowder), Hayward for Bradley (edge to Hayward), swapped Amir for Baynes (??), and lost Olynyk for Tatum. Also Zizic wasn't going to see the floor this year. Chemistry wise we will be starting from scratch, on paper though I'm not seeing how we got worse.

Agree with everything you said TP

I think everybody is just disappointed that the BK18 was included without any protections

Offline Roy H.

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The same argument was made that Lebron wouldn't "fit" with Kyrie, and Wade before him.



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Offline Roy H.

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This is wishful thinking, JP. The Cavs got better. They swapped Kyrie for IT (a lateral move, at worst) and added Crowder. Meanwhile, we got worse. What we've done is increase our odds of winning the East in 2-3 years when Isaiah is firmly on the decline and Kyrie is hitting his prime. That's the bright side...if you're inclined to look for one.

Sorry, how did we get worse? We made a 'lateral move' for Kyrie, swapped Crowder for Morris (slight edge to Crowder), Hayward for Bradley (edge to Hayward), swapped Amir for Baynes (??), and lost Olynyk for Tatum. Also Zizic wasn't going to see the floor this year. Chemistry wise we will be starting from scratch, on paper though I'm not seeing how we got worse.

We were a mediocre defensive team, and we jettisoned two of our top three defenders. That's gotta hurt somewhat, right?


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Online tazzmaniac

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I doubt that there will be friction between IT and Lebron.  Certainly not close to what there would have been with Lebron and Irving.  It is not in IT's interest for their to be friction if he wants to see that Brinks truck.  As far as chemistry, IT should be at least as good as Irving off ball.  IT's defense is an issue but it isn't that much worse than Irving's.  Crowder is a very good addition for them.  Irving couldn't carry the Cavs when Lebron was out.  Maybe IT can. 

The trade gave the Cavs some flexibility whereas before they had none.  It gave them a great return for a player who wanted to be traded.  It probably increased the chances of Lebron staying put for another year assuming he hasn't already decided to leave.   




Offline SHAQATTACK

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IT size and his potential to strain his hip ....puts more pressure on Le Whine to play even harder .

IT lands on that hip doing his crazy acrobatics trying to cover guys like John Wall again.  He won't be much good.


Cavs will spend too much energy protecting the IT hip and resting LeWhine. .

agree with Pot ......it was all about the Nets pick ......LeWhine is leaving next,  so they get a jump start on the next rebuild.

A heathy IT and Bron can post a nice record , but can they survive 82 games in one piece and knock off KD .....i wouldn't bet on IT.


IT used to playing for a Coach .....we ll see how he likes punching the clock for LeBron
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 07:01:56 AM by SHAQATTACK »

Online tazzmaniac

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IT size and his potential to strain his hip ....puts more pressure on Le Whine to play even harder .

IT lands on that hip doing his crazy acrobatics trying to cover guys like John Wall again.  He won't be much good.


Cavs will spend too much energy protecting the IT hip and resting LeWhine. .
IT's health is a concern.  However Crowder makes Lebron's job much easier.  The regular season doesn't matter.  The Cavs can coast and still be the favorite to make the finals. 

Offline Surferdad

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This is wishful thinking, JP. The Cavs got better. They swapped Kyrie for IT (a lateral move, at worst) and added Crowder. Meanwhile, we got worse. What we've done is increase our odds of winning the East in 2-3 years when Isaiah is firmly on the decline and Kyrie is hitting his prime. That's the bright side...if you're inclined to look for one.

Sorry, how did we get worse? We made a 'lateral move' for Kyrie, swapped Crowder for Morris (slight edge to Crowder), Hayward for Bradley (edge to Hayward), swapped Amir for Baynes (??), and lost Olynyk for Tatum. Also Zizic wasn't going to see the floor this year. Chemistry wise we will be starting from scratch, on paper though I'm not seeing how we got worse.

We were a mediocre defensive team, and we jettisoned two of our top three defenders. That's gotta hurt somewhat, right?
I think both teams got worse defensively this off-season. 

The Cavs:  Crowder is an overrated defender who leveled out, at best, last year.  Love is mediocre, IT is terrible.  Jose Calderon is just bad. Rose has no interest.

The Celts: Lost Bradley to go along with Crowder, 2 of the 3 "dirt-dogs", now Smart is maybe the best and only true lock-down defender on the team.

All that said, the NBA is now a more offensively oriented league due to 2 factors: (1) Rule changes which limit hand-checking etc. and 2) analytics with a focus on 3-point shooting.

Offline Somebody

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I think we'd win the East not due to the trade but because we added Hayward and got some more size up front in Baynes. Obviously I'm still optimistic but I am going to have a heart attack watching the pick and IT getting shafted like this.