Author Topic: Talk me off the ledge....  (Read 13883 times)

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Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2017, 08:19:05 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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wow! I knew this board overrated our players, but the reaction to getting the best player in a trade in which we just got rid of a bunch of players that are easily replaceable is ludicrous.

in case any of you don't know though -

jae crowder has done nothing for this team since his 1st season here. if he stayed any longer all he'd be doing is taking mins. away from guys that can actually play like Brown and Tatum.

ante zizic dominated a bunch of guys in Europe that wouldn't even make the D-league. as soon as he came over and played here in summer league, guess what? he looked average... and that's being generous.

the Brooklyn pick sucks, but you have to give up something. and I actually think this says a lot about what they think about tatum and brown.

everybody here is butt-hurt for no reason. we got the better deal.   

If only NBA teams were built in a video game. This trade was terrible. The C's will take a step back next season.

wow you clearly think a lot of jae crowder. because at worst IT and Irving are a wash... which isn't the case at all.

IT and Irving isn't a wash from a leadership standpoint. Crowder is a good role player that the Cavs needed. Just watch.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2017, 08:19:07 PM »

Offline 2short

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Ugh big news time.  So i wrote this semi long breakdown of my thoughts and cuz so many were posting it was lost!

So hopefully i can modify this and remember all my points!
IT, love you and all he did for team, hard player big time shooter.  We just traded him for a better pg who is younger, bigger and tied into contract for longer.  As hard as IT worked on defense he was still MY HEIGHT!  I wish IT a great career from here out, he's proven he belongs a starter in the nba. 

Jae, thanks, good hard player who is really a backup.  We got him thrown in rondo deal.  He played well for us and was a junk yard dog!  But I don't see him beating out the kids, brown and Tatum for long.

Zizic i actually would have like to keep if possible.  Who knows how he'll pan out in 2/3 years. (Again that is how long it'll take him to develope into nba ready material).  If ever.

Nets pick had to be put in, I'm sure everyone understands that.

So reverse argument from the cavs side.  IT leaves in year, lebron leaves in year, zizic doesn't prove to be nba player so they get a draft pick with full blown rebuild.  And as we all know who knows where pick will fall and if player will pan out.

It's a good trade for team, maybe an overpay but now vets will be looking to come here (ala pj brown) to give quality minutes with a starting group of:
Irving, Hayward, horford and then Morris, smart, Tatum, brown depending on what Stevens wants to do
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 08:27:13 PM by 2short »

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2017, 08:21:55 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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The Nets pick was too much. Other than that I'm OK.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 08:27:26 PM »

Offline CELTICSofBOSTON

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The Nets pick was too much. Other than that I'm OK.

Does anyone know if the pick is for SURE unprotected?

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 08:28:06 PM »

Offline 2short

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Forgot a point, Jae is now lebrons backup (for a year) or does he start ?

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2017, 08:30:09 PM »

Offline mef730

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Ledge removal, since I just talked myself off the same ledge:

We had no plans to resign IT after this year, and who knows what his health will be like the first half of the season. We got a younger, better version of him.

Crowder was a nice piece, but we are deep at the 3. Brown needs time to play.

Zizic was great in Europe but doesn't look NBA ready.

So, long-term, we traded Irving for the Nets pick, which has yet to be determined, for a borderline superstar. Even if there was a 50% chance that the Nets would be the worst team, there would then only be a 25% chance that we would get the first pick. We had a 12.5% shot at #1.

That's all I got, because even if we beat Cleveland, we still can't beat Golden State.

Mike

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2017, 08:30:09 PM »

Offline Rhyso

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1. Lakers will still be bad, solid chance of it coming our way.
2. If not, look at the kings roster and come back and tell me how good they will be next year.
3. IT is an expiring contract (less value), coming off potential recurring hip injury vs Irving with longer term contract, bigger on defense and like IT he breaks down defenses. Kyrie is better long term.
4. We have a Brown and Tatum to develop, taking on 2 high draft picks to integrate would be challenging, this gives us more focus on these players.
5. We can now have room to extend Smart, who is a good player.
6. If we were going to trade a nets pick, i feel this is the one considering our team development timeline.

I feel I am the biggest Danny defender, but I am completely dumbfounded by this.

To you points:

3. His defensive + is negligible. And he takes plays off, unlike IT.
4. Wow, really? That is the thing getting me off the ledge?
5. This gives us no more flexibility to extend Smart whatsoever.
6. No. That Nets pick is going to be Top 5 guaranteed. Lakers/Sac is still a longer shot at a high pick.

Things that will help me stay away from the ledge:

1. We have a nice 2 year look at Kyrie. If he falters, we can let him walk in FA. Pick up a good value PG (of which there are millions) for Horford's last year, and by which time Brown and Tatum will be getting closer to their prime.

2. We can rest players against the Nets. Scratch that: we can get the Claws to play the Nets.

That's about it at the moment.

I understand all of that, and frankly adding the Brooklyn pick is a bad overpay, a mid first round pick is what Danny should have held firm with. But to counter:

3. Remember IT getting posted up at every opportune moment in the playoffs and forcing a double? He hurt the team there, not sure about Kyrie taking plays off, I never paid much attention, aside from the finals where has done a respectable job on Curry.
4. I think we can get back to the ledge when we know the draft order, if the Lakers pick is better than the Nets it will take the sting out of the trade. Still bad.
5. So you don't think Smart will be extended? Our luxury tax bill would have been huge paying IT 30mil and Smart 14-18mil. Irving only makes 19mil.
6. Maybe, maybe not, the west is a much stronger conference.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2017, 08:30:43 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I don't think nets pick was too much. I look at it as we trade IT and the nets pick for irving. which makes sense because we got the better player.

the other scrubs were throw ins. this team is so much better it's not even funny. with that said it does mean the kids are going to have bigger expectations to make the right plays.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2017, 08:33:05 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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I don't think nets pick was too much. I look at it as we trade IT and the nets pick for irving. which makes sense because we got the better player.

the other scrubs were throw ins. this team is so much better it's not even funny. with that said it does mean the kids are going to have bigger expectations to make the right plays.
that's exactly how I think about it


Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 08:34:56 PM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Here take my hand...


...1. We were not paying IT $35 mil a year and 2. He's 29 going on 30 coming off a hip injury. and 3. Kyrie is 25 and not even in his prime yet.

Welcome back.
The Nets will finish with the worst record and the Celtics will end up with the 4th pick.

- Me (sometime in January)

--------------------------------------------------------

Guess I was wrong (May 23rd)

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 08:40:58 PM »

Offline MaxAMillion

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The Nets pick was too much. Other than that I'm OK.

That is the point...The Nets pick shouldn't have been traded.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 08:40:59 PM »

Offline 2short

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Here take my hand...


...1. We were not paying IT $35 mil a year and 2. He's 29 going on 30 coming off a hip injury. and 3. Kyrie is 25 and not even in his prime yet.

Welcome back.
I like that
Tp

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 08:46:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I can't believe guys are crying over Ante.   He did not look that sharp in Summer League, mark my words Theis will surprise.

Quote
1. We were not paying IT $35 mil a year and 2. He's 29 going on 30 coming off a hip injury. and 3. Kyrie is 25 and not even in his prime yet.

I know TP, not even to mention what a defensive mismatch IT is the playoffs.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2017, 09:11:03 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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1. Lakers will still be bad, solid chance of it coming our way.
2. If not, look at the kings roster and come back and tell me how good they will be next year.
3. IT is an expiring contract (less value), coming off potential recurring hip injury vs Irving with longer term contract, bigger on defense and like IT he breaks down defenses. Kyrie is better long term.
4. We have a Brown and Tatum to develop, taking on 2 high draft picks to integrate would be challenging, this gives us more focus on these players.
5. We can now have room to extend Smart, who is a good player.
6. If we were going to trade a nets pick, i feel this is the one considering our team development timeline.

I feel I am the biggest Danny defender, but I am completely dumbfounded by this.

To you points:

3. His defensive + is negligible. And he takes plays off, unlike IT.
4. Wow, really? That is the thing getting me off the ledge?
5. This gives us no more flexibility to extend Smart whatsoever.
6. No. That Nets pick is going to be Top 5 guaranteed. Lakers/Sac is still a longer shot at a high pick.

Things that will help me stay away from the ledge:

1. We have a nice 2 year look at Kyrie. If he falters, we can let him walk in FA. Pick up a good value PG (of which there are millions) for Horford's last year, and by which time Brown and Tatum will be getting closer to their prime.

2. We can rest players against the Nets. Scratch that: we can get the Claws to play the Nets.

That's about it at the moment.

I understand all of that, and frankly adding the Brooklyn pick is a bad overpay, a mid first round pick is what Danny should have held firm with. But to counter:

3. Remember IT getting posted up at every opportune moment in the playoffs and forcing a double? He hurt the team there, not sure about Kyrie taking plays off, I never paid much attention, aside from the finals where has done a respectable job on Curry.
4. I think we can get back to the ledge when we know the draft order, if the Lakers pick is better than the Nets it will take the sting out of the trade. Still bad.
5. So you don't think Smart will be extended? Our luxury tax bill would have been huge paying IT 30mil and Smart 14-18mil. Irving only makes 19mil.
6. Maybe, maybe not, the west is a much stronger conference.

We can agree to disagree about everything, but Smart's extension deadline is October 17, this year. You can extend your own rookies over the cap, using their normal Bird Rights. We are over the cap with either Kyrie, or IT and Jae..

Perhaps another ledge argument, is that by not signing IT to the max, it opens the window for Marcus to compete at such a level that makes management think he can take over as the starting PG after Kyrie's second year.



"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Talk me off the ledge....
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2017, 09:12:31 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Here you go....if this doesn't absolutely work Ainge is done