Author Topic: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)  (Read 15829 times)

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Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2017, 10:00:34 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Is there any justification for the Arpaio pardon? This is dictatorship/banana republic type stuff.

I suppose the justification is that at least one of the things he got in trouble for -- essentially, enforcing Federal immigration law -- was only newly off-limits due to Obama. Arpaio was allegedly fighting a political decision to do his job and protect the country.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter. Presidents pardon / commute the sentences of dozens, even hundreds, of people every term. Arpaio is no more or less deserving than most of them.

I guess we'll end up disagreeing on that. Even by the standards of the current republican party he was extreme. He was a law enforcement officer who ran a system so racist and cruel he was ordered to stop. He refused to stop and lied about it which was his ultimate conviction for which he was pardoned. It was done without the usual process and is condemned by nearly all, including republican state senator mccain. It basically sends an early term message that as long as your crimes are racist and you support trump, you will get off. Im guessing we will see a few pretty words and zero action from republican reps and senate, even though this is what impeachment was designed for.

Or you can pardon a literal terrorist like Obama did, and no one will say anything.....
I'll kick myself for asking - but who is this "literal terrorist" Obama pardoned?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/oscar-lopez-commutation-barack-obama-214685
thanks.  wasn't familiar with this person. 

I don't get the push to pardon him but the article is correct that each president pardons some people for political expediency.  thing is, Trump didn't follow the usual channels for granting a pardon in this case.  Arpaio hadn't even been sentenced yet.  Arpaio should have spent some time in prison for blatantly violating people's rights.  If Trump pardoned him after some time had passed, it'd be possibly regarded as something similar to what the other presidents have done.   instead, it reeks of a prejudiced president as well as signalling Trump will bail out anyone brought up on charges in the Russia investigation. 

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2017, 12:30:46 AM »

Online rondohondo

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" The world is a vampire, sent to drain"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbofFq1ZJ6Y

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Trump 2020 ;D

Edit; oops meant to post this in alt-right rallies thread
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 05:32:01 AM by rondohondo »

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2017, 12:46:33 AM »

Online trickybilly

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Is there any justification for the Arpaio pardon? This is dictatorship/banana republic type stuff.

I suppose the justification is that at least one of the things he got in trouble for -- essentially, enforcing Federal immigration law -- was only newly off-limits due to Obama. Arpaio was allegedly fighting a political decision to do his job and protect the country.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter. Presidents pardon / commute the sentences of dozens, even hundreds, of people every term. Arpaio is no more or less deserving than most of them.

I guess we'll end up disagreeing on that. Even by the standards of the current republican party he was extreme. He was a law enforcement officer who ran a system so racist and cruel he was ordered to stop. He refused to stop and lied about it which was his ultimate conviction for which he was pardoned. It was done without the usual process and is condemned by nearly all, including republican state senator mccain. It basically sends an early term message that as long as your crimes are racist and you support trump, you will get off. Im guessing we will see a few pretty words and zero action from republican reps and senate, even though this is what impeachment was designed for.

Or you can pardon a literal terrorist like Obama did, and no one will say anything.....
I'll kick myself for asking - but who is this "literal terrorist" Obama pardoned?

Oscar Lopez Rivera, killed people with bombs, search for yourself......

Despite wanting in no way to condone violence, nor to equivocate a stupid lowlife like Rivera with Mandela, or even Ho Chi Minh: one man's terrorist is another man's advocate for Independence by a foreign occupier.

I know that comparing Oranges with apples is a favorite Trumpian staple, but the breadth of issues which it now covers is truly remarkable.

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Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2017, 01:30:59 AM »

Offline feckless

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Is there any justification for the Arpaio pardon? This is dictatorship/banana republic type stuff.

I suppose the justification is that at least one of the things he got in trouble for -- essentially, enforcing Federal immigration law -- was only newly off-limits due to Obama. Arpaio was allegedly fighting a political decision to do his job and protect the country.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter. Presidents pardon / commute the sentences of dozens, even hundreds, of people every term. Arpaio is no more or less deserving than most of them.

I guess we'll end up disagreeing on that. Even by the standards of the current republican party he was extreme. He was a law enforcement officer who ran a system so racist and cruel he was ordered to stop. He refused to stop and lied about it which was his ultimate conviction for which he was pardoned. It was done without the usual process and is condemned by nearly all, including republican state senator mccain. It basically sends an early term message that as long as your crimes are racist and you support trump, you will get off. Im guessing we will see a few pretty words and zero action from republican reps and senate, even though this is what impeachment was designed for.

Or you can pardon a literal terrorist like Obama did, and no one will say anything.....
I'll kick myself for asking - but who is this "literal terrorist" Obama pardoned?

Oscar Lopez Rivera, killed people with bombs, search for yourself......

Despite wanting in no way to condone violence, nor to equivocate a stupid lowlife like Rivera with Mandela, or even Ho Chi Minh: one man's terrorist is another man's advocate for Independence by a foreign occupier.

I know that comparing Oranges with apples is a favorite Trumpian staple, but the breadth of issues which it now covers is truly remarkable.

Yes look up Oscar Lopez Rivera and Obama.  You will see there was no pardon but commutation of a 55 year sentence to 35 years.  Very different. 
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2017, 10:03:37 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Is there any justification for the Arpaio pardon? This is dictatorship/banana republic type stuff.

I suppose the justification is that at least one of the things he got in trouble for -- essentially, enforcing Federal immigration law -- was only newly off-limits due to Obama. Arpaio was allegedly fighting a political decision to do his job and protect the country.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter. Presidents pardon / commute the sentences of dozens, even hundreds, of people every term. Arpaio is no more or less deserving than most of them.

I guess we'll end up disagreeing on that. Even by the standards of the current republican party he was extreme. He was a law enforcement officer who ran a system so racist and cruel he was ordered to stop. He refused to stop and lied about it which was his ultimate conviction for which he was pardoned. It was done without the usual process and is condemned by nearly all, including republican state senator mccain. It basically sends an early term message that as long as your crimes are racist and you support trump, you will get off. Im guessing we will see a few pretty words and zero action from republican reps and senate, even though this is what impeachment was designed for.

Or you can pardon a literal terrorist like Obama did, and no one will say anything.....
I'll kick myself for asking - but who is this "literal terrorist" Obama pardoned?

Oscar Lopez Rivera, killed people with bombs, search for yourself......

Despite wanting in no way to condone violence, nor to equivocate a stupid lowlife like Rivera with Mandela, or even Ho Chi Minh: one man's terrorist is another man's advocate for Independence by a foreign occupier.

I know that comparing Oranges with apples is a favorite Trumpian staple, but the breadth of issues which it now covers is truly remarkable.

Yes look up Oscar Lopez Rivera and Obama.  You will see there was no pardon but commutation of a 55 year sentence to 35 years.  Very different. 
true.  it's not like he was pardoned before he was sentenced  ::)

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2017, 10:21:45 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Is there any justification for the Arpaio pardon? This is dictatorship/banana republic type stuff.

I suppose the justification is that at least one of the things he got in trouble for -- essentially, enforcing Federal immigration law -- was only newly off-limits due to Obama. Arpaio was allegedly fighting a political decision to do his job and protect the country.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter. Presidents pardon / commute the sentences of dozens, even hundreds, of people every term. Arpaio is no more or less deserving than most of them.

I guess we'll end up disagreeing on that. Even by the standards of the current republican party he was extreme. He was a law enforcement officer who ran a system so racist and cruel he was ordered to stop. He refused to stop and lied about it which was his ultimate conviction for which he was pardoned. It was done without the usual process and is condemned by nearly all, including republican state senator mccain. It basically sends an early term message that as long as your crimes are racist and you support trump, you will get off. Im guessing we will see a few pretty words and zero action from republican reps and senate, even though this is what impeachment was designed for.

Or you can pardon a literal terrorist like Obama did, and no one will say anything.....
I'll kick myself for asking - but who is this "literal terrorist" Obama pardoned?

Oscar Lopez Rivera, killed people with bombs, search for yourself......

Despite wanting in no way to condone violence, nor to equivocate a stupid lowlife like Rivera with Mandela, or even Ho Chi Minh: one man's terrorist is another man's advocate for Independence by a foreign occupier.

I know that comparing Oranges with apples is a favorite Trumpian staple, but the breadth of issues which it now covers is truly remarkable.

Yes look up Oscar Lopez Rivera and Obama.  You will see there was no pardon but commutation of a 55 year sentence to 35 years.  Very different. 
true.  it's not like he was pardoned before he was sentenced  ::)

That happens plenty, too. Take Marc Rich, who was pardoned while a fugitive, either because he's an extremely rich political donor, or because Israel asked us to, or both.

Almost all pardons and commutations are motivated by politics or patronage.


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Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2017, 12:39:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2017, 12:57:04 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

I agree. I would save pardons for cases where there is strong suspicion of innocence, or where a grave miscarriage of justice is being corrected.

The only ounce of credit I'll give Trump is that he didn't wait until the last few weeks of his term, which so many presidents do to avoid political consequences. 


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Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2017, 12:59:10 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

I agree that this pardon is no better or worse than most.  There are much bigger things we can criticize Trump for.

The part about this that bothers me the most is that Trump is essentially saying he is OK with violating how a Judge has interpreted the constitution so along as it is targeted to those Mexican rapists and drug dealers.  Kind of like the "don't worry about banging their head on the car" comments he made earlier.  I am Mr. law and order even if it means breaking the law.  There is a very troubling contradiction implied here.

But add it to the list of things about Trump that bother me (so when is Mexico going to pay for the wall again?, for example).

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2017, 01:23:49 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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NYT found emails from a Trump business associate, Felix Sater (who has dubious organized crime connections and was part of a secret "peace plan" to remove Russian sanctions presented to Michael Flynn early in the administration).

Sent early in Trump's campaign, Sater pushes licensing a Trump Tower in Moscow and claims "I will get Putin in on this program and we will get Donald elected...Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it. I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html

Sater may have oversold his access, the tower was never licensed, and there's no indication of what else might've resulted from the proposal. But it's another huge puff of smoke around the issue, and yet another piece of evidence that Trump's people have repeatedly lied about his campaign's and his personal businesses' connections to Russia and Putin.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 01:43:56 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2017, 05:04:27 PM »

Offline blink

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

I agree. I would save pardons for cases where there is strong suspicion of innocence, or where a grave miscarriage of justice is being corrected.

The only ounce of credit I'll give Trump is that he didn't wait until the last few weeks of his term, which so many presidents do to avoid political consequences.
'

Out of trump's own mouth...

"In the middle of the hurricane, I assumed the ratings would be far higher than they would be normally," Pres. Trump says of Arpaio pardon.

This is idiotic on so many levels.

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2017, 05:19:46 PM »

Online rondohondo

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

I agree. I would save pardons for cases where there is strong suspicion of innocence, or where a grave miscarriage of justice is being corrected.

The only ounce of credit I'll give Trump is that he didn't wait until the last few weeks of his term, which so many presidents do to avoid political consequences.
'

Out of trump's own mouth...

"In the middle of the hurricane, I assumed the ratings would be far higher than they would be normally," Pres. Trump says of Arpaio pardon.

This is idiotic on so many levels.

To quote the great Arthur Lange

Wahhhhh....

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2017, 08:05:42 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think 99% of pardons are disgusting. Crimes were committed and their time should be served. I don't have a left or right agenda here. I don't care who does the pardoning. Criminals should serve their sentences.

I agree. I would save pardons for cases where there is strong suspicion of innocence, or where a grave miscarriage of justice is being corrected.

The only ounce of credit I'll give Trump is that he didn't wait until the last few weeks of his term, which so many presidents do to avoid political consequences.
'

Out of trump's own mouth...

"In the middle of the hurricane, I assumed the ratings would be far higher than they would be normally," Pres. Trump says of Arpaio pardon.

This is idiotic on so many levels.

It's a bizarre quote. I assume he was being criticized for announcing the pardon on a Friday afternoon to avoid the news cycle?


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Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2017, 08:39:17 PM »

Offline blink

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So I am pretty sure I had a post in here that was deleted.   Yes it was in response to a question about the timing for the pardon.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348327-trump-i-pardoned-arpaio-during-hurricane-because-i-thought-tv-ratings

Re: Trump And His Administration (Day to Day Thread)
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2017, 09:04:27 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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So I am pretty sure I had a post in here that was deleted.   Yes it was in response to a question about the timing for the pardon.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348327-trump-i-pardoned-arpaio-during-hurricane-because-i-thought-tv-ratings
Your post was deleted most likely because it was antagonistic to another poster and we are trying to keep things civil here.