Poll

Please vote for which day you want to draft (10am - 4pm EST)

Wednesday, Sept. 6
0 (0%)
Thursday, Sept. 7
0 (0%)
Either one / no preference
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention  (Read 826 times)

BDubs and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« on: August 21, 2017, 08:32:51 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5458
  • Tommy Points: 1279
  • Ainge *still* has a Posse! Ubuntu Y'all
This thread is to discuss changes to the GC Yahoo! H2H League Constitution. (The current league thread is here.)

The constitution can be viewed year round at http://www.10thumbs.org/h2h/league-constitution/.

We'll do voting via Doodle.


Convention Guidelines:

1. Anyone may propose an amendment in the thread. You can kick around ideas, but to formally propose amendments please use the format:

Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
amendment text in bold red


2. Final and formal amendments must be specific and enforceable. We can't have something like "don't let teams tank" because the commissioner will have no way to decide what is tanking and what is not.


3. I'd like to have someone second each amendment just to assure there's some support before we vote.

4.  The Commissioner will approve the final wording (working to make consistent with the original author) and conduct a vote via Doodle.




Constitutional Amendment #1
Revise how picks are penalized by GP audit
-------------------------------
8. At the end of the season the commissioner will conduct an Games Played Audit of the 12 non-playoff teams. For each player with either an O-Rank or Season (total) Rank of 100 or better which misses more than 20 games that he plays in real life (i.e. Basketball Reference “games played” minus Y! Team Log “GP” > 20 games) that team shall be penalized 5 post-lottery draft spots for any first round picks they own, which become their property once traded for. GMs may appeal this penalty to the league. Reversal requires an majority vote (i.e. 11 votes).2.

Proposed by DinoGanja, seconded by Fairweatherfan





Constitutional Amendment #2
Clarity on scheduling in a 20-week season
-------------------------------
(new) 25. When Yahoo! does not allow for a 19-week schedule (i.e. one where each team plays every other team only once) the second matchup shall be determined by the previous season's record — where #1 will play #2 twice, #3 will play #4 twice, etc.


Proposed by Gainesville Celtic, seconded by Fairweatherfan





additions in bold italic red
deletions are bold and struckthrough
consent additions in bold blue
« Last Edit: Today at 11:30:54 AM by Gainesville Celtic »
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014 Champs
CBlog Baseball League: Gainesville Ubuntus: 2011 & 2015 Champs

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2017, 08:39:29 PM »

Online eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17396
  • Tommy Points: 1086
For kicking around an idea I was just looking at something old (not actually in this league) but there was a minor issue where some GMs didn't get their cuts done by the deadline. This resulted in dealing with it the way we generally always have, which is by committee. This strikes me as a not broken/don't fix issue, but there were several ideas as to how to possibly deal with this in the future.  It's one of those things that doesn't seem very important at all till the minute it happens. Suddenly it's holding up the whole league and maybe 5 GMs make a decision. Not sure if we want to keep doing it that way

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 08:40:58 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5458
  • Tommy Points: 1279
  • Ainge *still* has a Posse! Ubuntu Y'all
reserved (darn you eja for messing up my clean threads!)
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014 Champs
CBlog Baseball League: Gainesville Ubuntus: 2011 & 2015 Champs

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 08:46:27 PM »

Online eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17396
  • Tommy Points: 1086
reserved (darn you eja for messing up my clean threads!)


Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2017, 08:48:31 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5458
  • Tommy Points: 1279
  • Ainge *still* has a Posse! Ubuntu Y'all
^^ nice.

here's one of the 2 issues raised by other GMs, that I'm re-posting now that we're gonna discuss some possible changes:

Hi
I'd like to address the issue where if team A trades for team B's draft pick, then if team B doesn't set a line up frequentl enough thereby violating the games played audit, team A would not be penalised for that.

Dino would you like to speak more to this?
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014 Champs
CBlog Baseball League: Gainesville Ubuntus: 2011 & 2015 Champs

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 10:28:01 AM »

Offline DinoGanga

  • Aron Baynes
  • Posts: 139
  • Tommy Points: 31
Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.
2016 CelticsBlog Draft: Washington Wizards

PG: Darren Collison / Elfrid Payton / Tim Frazier
SG: Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
SF: Jae Crowder / Shaun Kilpatrick / Marcus Thornton
PF: LeBron James / Derrick Williams / JJ Hickson
C: Jusuf Nurkic / Meyers Leonard / Nikola Pekovic

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 10:50:18 AM »

Offline DinoGanga

  • Aron Baynes
  • Posts: 139
  • Tommy Points: 31
Basically if I trade for someone's pick, and they stop setting lineups etc. why should I be penalized that 5 draft slots? How does that penalize the offending person?
2016 CelticsBlog Draft: Washington Wizards

PG: Darren Collison / Elfrid Payton / Tim Frazier
SG: Avery Bradley / Seth Curry
SF: Jae Crowder / Shaun Kilpatrick / Marcus Thornton
PF: LeBron James / Derrick Williams / JJ Hickson
C: Jusuf Nurkic / Meyers Leonard / Nikola Pekovic

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 11:13:53 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17502
  • Tommy Points: 2305
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.

I second this but I think we need to finish the thought and specify what DOES happen to the offending team. Next year's pick is docked, and this must be indicated clearly to any team trading for it?

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:19:14 AM »

Offline mkogav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2798
  • Tommy Points: 532
Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.

I second this but I think we need to finish the thought and specify what DOES happen to the offending team. Next year's pick is docked, and this must be indicated clearly to any team trading for it?

Third.

Mk

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 11:41:13 AM »

Online eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17396
  • Tommy Points: 1086
Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.

I second this but I think we need to finish the thought and specify what DOES happen to the offending team. Next year's pick is docked, and this must be indicated clearly to any team trading for it?
I like this kind of concept. It's too easy to tank and trade a super valuable piece. Maybe when you are below a certain percent of games played you can't trade for top 150 players or something

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 12:45:22 PM »

Offline mkogav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2798
  • Tommy Points: 532
Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.

I second this but I think we need to finish the thought and specify what DOES happen to the offending team. Next year's pick is docked, and this must be indicated clearly to any team trading for it?
I like this kind of concept. It's too easy to tank and trade a super valuable piece. Maybe when you are below a certain percent of games played you can't trade for top 150 players or something

To throw out arguments/questions for the other side...

1. Will this cause less activity from bottom team's which trade their first round picks?

Maybe this doesn't matter. For the most part, everyone exception the commissioner are stand up guys.

2.  Can this be manipulated somehow?

Again, only a guy who wins the league 2 times in 3 years that he's the commissioner of would probably monkey with the rules.


Mk


P.S.

GC is a total stand up guy who would never ever do anything like that...







P.P.S.



Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 02:55:50 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5458
  • Tommy Points: 1279
  • Ainge *still* has a Posse! Ubuntu Y'all
Appreciate the discussion here! I'm just thinking out loud to keep things moving.

This is the current relevant section of the constitution:
Quote
8. At the end of the season the commissioner will conduct an Games Played Audit of the 12 non-playoff teams. For each player with either an O-Rank or Season (total) Rank of 100 or better which misses more than 20 games that he plays in real life (i.e. Basketball Reference “games played” minus Y! Team Log “GP” > 20 games) that team shall be penalized 5 post-lottery draft spots. GMs may appeal this penalty to the league. Reversal requires an majority vote (i.e. 11 votes).2

I should point out that right now the current rule doesn't speak to what would even happen in this instance.

This means, at the very least, it's not been an issue (yet). Which is good!

But it also means, that it's a good thing to address proactively -- so thanks DinoG!

FWIW, I've been operating on this assumption as commish -- that once a pick was traded it wasn't subject to penalties. So I'd be fine with codifying it in the rules.

I agree with FWF then:

Proposed Amendment #1:
-------------------------------
Once a draft pick is traded, it becomes the absolute property of the acquiring team. Any penalties levied against the prior team for failing the games played audit, will not be set against the traded draft pick.

I second this but I think we need to finish the thought and specify what DOES happen to the offending team. Next year's pick is docked, and this must be indicated clearly to any team trading for it?

The games audit/missed games penalty was intended to simply discourage teams from not setting their lineups -- and thereby shifting the competitive balance (i.e. affecting playoff races b/c a, say, 7th seed happens to play a team late that's stopped setting it's lineups).

I'm less worried about teams attempting to artificially manipulate their draft position like LB33 did in the points league. If I think that's going on I may just ask that person to leave.

TBH, the most important thing to me (as another GM) is having 19 other active GMs (i.e. setting lineups, answering trade requests, working the wire, participating in league discussions, etc.)

Therefore, I'll even make this suggestion -- if a GM both trades it's first AND runs afoul of Rule #8 (above) I'd see it as grounds for removal.

IMO there's really no reason -- wether you have your pick or not -- to not set your lineups. And I think you almost have to TRY to run afoul of Rule #8.  Remember the audit is only looking at top 100 players on non-playoff teams.

If you can't set your lineups but have the wherewithal to deal away a first round pick... maybe a dedicated league like this isn't for you. And it doesn't get into the issue of manipulation or locking up activity like Mk raises...

too harsh?
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014 Champs
CBlog Baseball League: Gainesville Ubuntus: 2011 & 2015 Champs

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 02:59:47 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5458
  • Tommy Points: 1279
  • Ainge *still* has a Posse! Ubuntu Y'all
Also want to let folks know that there are a few minor things on the Yahoo! side that we need to address (I was setting up the league while my wife was on the phone before we watched a movie for her b'day... so I couldn't work through all of them).

The chief thing is that b/c of (I think) changes to the NBA schedule Yahoo has a 20 week season this year -- with the only choices for when to start the playoffs (for a league our size) as week 21.

This would mean an unbalanced schedule -- i.e. instead of teams playing each other 1x, each team plays each other team 1x and a single team 2x.

In the past we've voted to avoid this unbalanced schedule.

To do that this year though would mean starting the league's season in Week 2 and going to Week 20 (a 19-week season) and start the playoffs in Week 20.
GC's Yahoo! H2h League: Gainesville Celtics: 2014 Champs
CBlog Baseball League: Gainesville Ubuntus: 2011 & 2015 Champs

GC's Yahoo! H2h League permanent website (offseason roster, constitution, etc.) * Lucky was framed!

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 05:34:36 PM »

Offline mkogav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2798
  • Tommy Points: 532
Also want to let folks know that there are a few minor things on the Yahoo! side that we need to address (I was setting up the league while my wife was on the phone before we watched a movie for her b'day... so I couldn't work through all of them).

The chief thing is that b/c of (I think) changes to the NBA schedule Yahoo has a 20 week season this year -- with the only choices for when to start the playoffs (for a league our size) as week 21.

This would mean an unbalanced schedule -- i.e. instead of teams playing each other 1x, each team plays each other team 1x and a single team 2x.

In the past we've voted to avoid this unbalanced schedule.

To do that this year though would mean starting the league's season in Week 2 and going to Week 20 (a 19-week season) and start the playoffs in Week 20.


We tried starting at week 2 before and it was terrible. Everyone is pumped to start the season, but we have to wait out the first week. I would rather start the playoffs a week earlier.

Mk

Sickness, insanity and death were the angels that surrounded my cradle and they have followed me throughout my life - Edvard Munch


DKC Knicks

Re: GC's Yahoo! H2H League 2017 Constitutional Convention
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 05:59:05 PM »

Online eja117

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17396
  • Tommy Points: 1086
Also want to let folks know that there are a few minor things on the Yahoo! side that we need to address (I was setting up the league while my wife was on the phone before we watched a movie for her b'day... so I couldn't work through all of them).

The chief thing is that b/c of (I think) changes to the NBA schedule Yahoo has a 20 week season this year -- with the only choices for when to start the playoffs (for a league our size) as week 21.

This would mean an unbalanced schedule -- i.e. instead of teams playing each other 1x, each team plays each other team 1x and a single team 2x.

In the past we've voted to avoid this unbalanced schedule.

To do that this year though would mean starting the league's season in Week 2 and going to Week 20 (a 19-week season) and start the playoffs in Week 20.


We tried starting at week 2 before and it was terrible. Everyone is pumped to start the season, but we have to wait out the first week. I would rather start the playoffs a week earlier.

Mk
I think I would also prefer starting playoffs a week earlier. Good teams start sitting stars as soon as they can and starting playoffs earlier helps avoid that