Author Topic: ALT right rallies  (Read 5311 times)

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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #195 on: August 22, 2017, 01:18:59 AM »

Offline byennie

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Why do you insist that antiFa's goal is to fight white supremacy?

Because that's been their primary objective for over 80 years.

Started in 1930s Germany (Nazism)
US roots are 1980s punk scene (neo-Nazis)
Recent attention in Charlottesville: opposing white supremacy

It's not a centrally organized group, and there are small sub-factions that include anarchists. It is not a central theme.

Opposing police brutality is consistent with resisting a police state/ fascist regime.

Additionally, the US Antifa expressly started as "Anti-Racist action" instead of "Anti-Fascist".

So pretty much all of their history for the last 80 years, plus an express focus on racism in the USA, plus the recent events are why I say they (primarily) oppose white supremacy.

On the other hand, what? A few right-wing news reports making sure we all know they are anarchist thugs?

They are no angels, but denying the white supremacy focus is ignoring facts.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #196 on: August 22, 2017, 01:46:00 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Edit.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 01:53:28 AM by Rondo9 »

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #197 on: August 22, 2017, 01:48:54 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not a fan of Antifa as I've stated before. But they are worlds apart from white supremacists.

Or maybe I don't fully understand what it is that white supremacists want, or what Antifa wants.

In any case, it's now clear to me that I need to take a break from Celticsblog for a while.

White supremacists want to take rights away from some people, sometimes violently.

AntiFa want to take rights away from people, sometimes violently.

Both are evil.  That one group hates based upon color and the other hates based upon creed doesn't make a huge difference.

White supremacists hate non-white people.  Antifa hates people who hate non-white people. 

In my book, that's a significant difference.

Problem to them is criticism is hating non-white people.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #198 on: August 22, 2017, 02:01:22 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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antifa extremist declares full on war:
“You need violence in order to protect nonviolence,” Ms. Nauert added. “That’s what’s very obviously necessary right now. It’s full-on war, basically.”
http://ntknetwork.com/antifa-extremists-declare-full-on-war/


Antifa is delusional. In some states like Texas,  its legal for anyone to protect the confederate statues with lethal force. 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:46:03 AM by CelticsElite »

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #199 on: August 22, 2017, 06:16:29 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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antifa extremist declares full on war:
“You need violence in order to protect nonviolence,” Ms. Nauert added. “That’s what’s very obviously necessary right now. It’s full-on war, basically.”
http://ntknetwork.com/antifa-extremists-declare-full-on-war/


Antifa is delusional. In some states like Texas,  its legal for anyone to protect the confederate statues with lethal force.

I'm fairly sure your second paragraph is untrue.  Documentation, please.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #200 on: August 22, 2017, 06:35:49 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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It's all a continuum. Once you reach a certain threshold of evil, you're just a bad person. Yes, Hitler was significantly more evil than the average triple murderer, but do you want to associate with either?

AntiFa don't just take their anger out on racists, btw. They destroy the property of innocent people, assault cops, and as noted above, aren't above violently assaulting BLM protesters.

Both groups suck. White supremacists are worse, but if you're associating with either, you're part of the problem.

I think it's unfortunate that you can't see the black & white difference (no pun intended) between Antifa and white supremacists. Antifa is disobedient and resorts to some violence in opposition of white supremacy. Don't have to like them, for sure. White supremacists would be cool with genocide. Actual mass murder. Ethnic cleansing. One of them actually murdered a person, and would have killed 20 if he could. Antifa threw gross stuff at people in protest.

They aren't remotely similar, at all, and that's the point. You might as well just say we're all human and have stepped on an ant before. This isn't Hitler vs triple murderer. This is Hitler vs protesters who threw pee.

Why do you insist that antiFa's goal is to fight white supremacy?  Setting them up as noble, if flawed, vigilante freedom fighters is such a mischaracterization of what they're actually doing. They're a militant anarchist anti-capitalist group.

It's setting up the violent thugs as good guys that I'm opposed to. It doesn't diminish how terrible white supremacy is to also be opposed to Molotov cocktails, burning cars, and assaults on police and the innocent.

I never said they are good guys. That's a straw man. They expressly have no ambitions of oppression & genocide and no history of such. White supremacists do.

Again, being against them both is not an excuse to equate them.

Lol. Speaking of straw men, nobody has equated them. Some of us are just asking that their actions not be condoned and/or minimized. 

Don't suppress rights, particularly through violence.  Why do so many on one side of the ideological spectrum have any issue with that? I see a lot more excuse-making for violence from liberals and progressives than I do from conservatives and libertarians.


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #201 on: August 22, 2017, 06:38:31 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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antifa extremist declares full on war:
“You need violence in order to protect nonviolence,” Ms. Nauert added. “That’s what’s very obviously necessary right now. It’s full-on war, basically.”
http://ntknetwork.com/antifa-extremists-declare-full-on-war/


Antifa is delusional. In some states like Texas,  its legal for anyone to protect the confederate statues with lethal force.

I'm fairly sure your second paragraph is untrue.  Documentation, please.
Texas has some messed up gun laws. Lethal force in defense of property, even when a suspect is fleeing, has been found permissible. I'm not sure about defending property on public land, though. That seems like a bridge too far, even in the most Wild West of states.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 06:54:29 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #202 on: August 22, 2017, 06:46:18 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Because that's been their primary objective for over 80 years.

Started in 1930s Germany (Nazism)
US roots are 1980s punk scene (neo-Nazis)
Recent attention in Charlottesville: opposing white supremacy

It's not a centrally organized group, and there are small sub-factions that include anarchists. It is not a central theme.

Opposing police brutality is consistent with resisting a police state/ fascist regime.

Additionally, the US Antifa expressly started as "Anti-Racist action" instead of "Anti-Fascist".

So pretty much all of their history for the last 80 years, plus an express focus on racism in the USA, plus the recent events are why I say they (primarily) oppose white supremacy.

On the other hand, what? A few right-wing news reports making sure we all know they are anarchist thugs?

They are no angels, but denying the white supremacy focus is ignoring facts.

Agree.   I wonder how long before they turn on the Bible because all the slavery in it?

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #203 on: August 22, 2017, 10:08:46 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Guy who took one of the main videos of the Charlottesville car attack writes about his experience afterward - online alt-right communities decided he must've actually planned the attack himself, because something something George Soros. Proceeded to doxx his family, mail hoax anthrax to his parents, etc.  Classy stuff.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/21/fake-news-charlottesville-215514

I'm honestly surprised we were never graced with this particular conspiracy theory here.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #204 on: August 22, 2017, 10:19:55 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Don't suppress rights, particularly through violence.  Why do so many on one side of the ideological spectrum have any issue with that? I see a lot more excuse-making for violence from liberals and progressives than I do from conservatives and libertarians.

That is the fundamental question that keeps going around and around here.  If you say, "I condemn the racists in Charlottesville but AntiFa is bad too", it comes across to many of us, and that included David Duke, as saying a few protesters got out of hand but that happens with protesters.

I think AntiFa warrants some criticism.  It is not OK to throw urine at Police officers and yes, some on the left do have a hard time coming out and saying that.  But many on the right seem even more unwilling to just call out rightist racism without adding the yeah but AntiFa, or yeah but Soros conspiracy,....

If the right wants to get anywhere with their concerns over white reverse discrimination or any of the other policy threads that can be risen to legitimate debate, they need to be willing to unequivocally disassociate with with everything else.  My problem with the narrative of the right is that everything goes from "affirmative action may be outdated and requires revision" to liberals hate America and AntiFA wants to steal America from the whites through affirmative action.  This was not Reagan's narrative, it started more after Clinton and picked up steam big time with Obama winning twice.  It is not a position that can go anywhere.

I don't see this same kind of extremist narrative on the mainstream of the left.  Universal health care is a policy discussion, not "if you don't support universal health, you hate America".  Birth control is a means to prevent unwanted teen pregnancy which you may or may not agree with vs. our religious liberties are being trampled, its birth control today and tomorrow Christianity will be outlawed and replaced with Sharia Law.

i would like to see the republicans stand up to all of this deterioration of the party but for the past whatever, 15 years or so, it is just the opposite.  Trump is the candidate that emerged from the party (need more be said).  This is what all the "yeah but AntiFa" gets you.

How about a new slogan, Take Conservatism Back.  Roy, isn't this a sentiment that you could support?  It has to include some admission that the party has lost its way which nobody seems willing to do.  You would probably get some nasty tweets from David Duke like Trump did.  Very few in the republican party seem willing to offend these "morons".  That needs to change.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #205 on: August 22, 2017, 10:27:59 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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So Trump is headed to Phoenix today and several groups with numbers in the thousands are going to descend on Phoenix to voice their opinions on Trump and his recent actions. Hope everything goes well.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump’s-rally-in-arizona-what-you-need-to-know/ar-AAqxkgn?li=BBnbcA1


Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #206 on: August 22, 2017, 12:20:32 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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antifa extremist declares full on war:
“You need violence in order to protect nonviolence,” Ms. Nauert added. “That’s what’s very obviously necessary right now. It’s full-on war, basically.”
http://ntknetwork.com/antifa-extremists-declare-full-on-war/


Antifa is delusional. In some states like Texas,  its legal for anyone to protect the confederate statues with lethal force.

I'm fairly sure your second paragraph is untrue.  Documentation, please.
what about the first paragraph

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #207 on: August 22, 2017, 12:26:30 PM »

Offline mef730

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Don't suppress rights, particularly through violence.  Why do so many on one side of the ideological spectrum have any issue with that? I see a lot more excuse-making for violence from liberals and progressives than I do from conservatives and libertarians.

That is the fundamental question that keeps going around and around here.  If you say, "I condemn the racists in Charlottesville but AntiFa is bad too", it comes across to many of us, and that included David Duke, as saying a few protesters got out of hand but that happens with protesters.

I think AntiFa warrants some criticism.  It is not OK to throw urine at Police officers and yes, some on the left do have a hard time coming out and saying that.  But many on the right seem even more unwilling to just call out rightist racism without adding the yeah but AntiFa, or yeah but Soros conspiracy,....

If the right wants to get anywhere with their concerns over white reverse discrimination or any of the other policy threads that can be risen to legitimate debate, they need to be willing to unequivocally disassociate with with everything else.  My problem with the narrative of the right is that everything goes from "affirmative action may be outdated and requires revision" to liberals hate America and AntiFA wants to steal America from the whites through affirmative action.  This was not Reagan's narrative, it started more after Clinton and picked up steam big time with Obama winning twice.  It is not a position that can go anywhere.

I don't see this same kind of extremist narrative on the mainstream of the left.  Universal health care is a policy discussion, not "if you don't support universal health, you hate America".  Birth control is a means to prevent unwanted teen pregnancy which you may or may not agree with vs. our religious liberties are being trampled, its birth control today and tomorrow Christianity will be outlawed and replaced with Sharia Law.

i would like to see the republicans stand up to all of this deterioration of the party but for the past whatever, 15 years or so, it is just the opposite.  Trump is the candidate that emerged from the party (need more be said).  This is what all the "yeah but AntiFa" gets you.

How about a new slogan, Take Conservatism Back.  Roy, isn't this a sentiment that you could support?  It has to include some admission that the party has lost its way which nobody seems willing to do.  You would probably get some nasty tweets from David Duke like Trump did.  Very few in the republican party seem willing to offend these "morons".  That needs to change.

I think that you bring up a good point, but it's even simpler than it sounds. AntiFa is not liberal and do not represent the left. Just because they were protesting the neo-Nazis does not make them the far left. They're in that unusual spot where the far left and the far right meet.

As for "Take Conservatism Back," I couldn't agree more. The conservative intellectual giants that I know are Goldwater and Buckley, not Palin and Trump.

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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #208 on: August 22, 2017, 01:09:56 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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This isn't quite about rallies but didn't want to make a separate thread

Students at Howard University, a historically black college in Washington D.C., took to social media to express their anger over a group of white high school girls wearing pro-Trump clothing who visited the campus on Saturday.

Some tweets referring to their visit also suggested the white high school girls should be beaten up.

One of the high school guests, in a social media post of her own, said they were simply visiting the school’s cafeteria to get food as part of a larger tour of the nation’s capital, and faced a barrage of insults and aggressive acts, including having their hat stolen and being told ‘‘F*** y’all.

“The students took videos and pictures of us saying WE were being ‘disrespectful’, and that ‘us being caucasian, we should have known better,'” according to high school student ****** on TwitLinks


LiNks to tweets/comments suggesting a hat is grounds for killing someone:
https://twitter.com/britnianise/status/898941126631186432
https://twitter.com/kiymariah/status/899121239079489537

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/careers/school-group-kicked-off-uni-campus-for-trump-hats/news-story/2fce645b5aba02c0baa75b3288d12803

 According to statements by the girls on social media they were part of a tour group consisting of two schools. They were touring all over DC. They happened to be near Howard when they stopped for lunch. When the first group of students off the bus began to get attacked, an administrator told the kids get back on the bus and they went somewhere else. It sounds like they weren't there very long
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 01:16:47 PM by CelticsElite »

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #209 on: August 22, 2017, 01:14:23 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Eh. Wearing Pro-Trump clothing to Howard is basically real-life trolling. They don't deserve threats, but that visit and that clothing choice were, at best, a poor choice.


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