Author Topic: ALT right rallies  (Read 6364 times)

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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #45 on: August 20, 2017, 07:22:28 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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and it seems that the neo-fascists were simply dwarfed by the anti-fascist turnout, and then tucked their tails between their legs and left.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/boston-crowd-anti-racists-dwarfs-free-speech-rally-170819180115802.html

good turn out to show the right wing that they are not even close to the majority of voices.
It was a fantastic counter-protest.  A couple of scuffles out of a total of 15,000 people is not comparable to driving a car into a crowd.

Those who organized the 'free speech' rally are just a bunch of dumbos.  Rhetorical questions: What was their goal?  What did they want to see changed?  This is why their rally fell apart (along with being out-numbered 15,000 to about 100), they had nothing to say, no goal, no speakers no rally organization.

NO ONE is arguing the right to free speech.  The counter-protesters are arguing the against hate speech.  Nearly everyone agrees with that.  Is it protected, yes of course.  Is it OK? No.  don't forget "...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." is protected as even more fundamental than the Bill of Rights,  but alt-right generally ignores that part.


This post is just so misinformed I don't know what else to say. What happened yesterday was absolutely insane and actually kind of frightening. Only took a few seconds to find the first event on Facebook and see them denouncing hate groups. Didn't matter to tens of thousands of people. Orwellian.
That's fine, I just want to be on the right side of history when this protest is connected to Charlottesville.  That will happen.  In any case, you missed my point: No one is arguing the right to free speech.  It is the content of that free speech that matters now.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #46 on: August 20, 2017, 08:32:09 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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In any case, you missed my point: No one is arguing the right to free speech.  It is the content of that free speech that matters now.

This is blatantly false, whether intentionally stated or not. Many people on the left or those that are part of the protest groups have absolutely been trying to shut down free speech through intimidation, bullying, and violence. It's all caught on camera, there's evidence all over the place. I've seen the slogans "hate speech is not free speech" (untrue) or "I hate those who hate" (ironic) used frequently at these rallies. That's a bad look in my view.

So many people are making excuses for uncivilized and illegal behavior simply because they want to be "on the right side". It unacceptable and I won't tolerate it. I will speak out and condemn these people at every corner. Combating hate with hate doesn't work, because you can't force hate from someone's heart this way.

Every decent human being should aspire to want bigotry stamped out. But there is a proper way to achieve this. Those individuals who have been peacefully demonstrating do deserve applause. I just wish they would stand up to those among them that resort to uncivilized and illegal tactics to make their point.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #47 on: August 20, 2017, 08:57:18 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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In any case, you missed my point: No one is arguing the right to free speech.  It is the content of that free speech that matters now.

This is blatantly false, whether intentionally stated or not. Many people on the left or those that are part of the protest groups have absolutely been trying to shut down free speech through intimidation, bullying, and violence. It's all caught on camera, there's evidence all over the place. I've seen the slogans "hate speech is not free speech" (untrue) or "I hate those who hate" (ironic) used frequently at these rallies. That's a bad look in my view.

So many people are making excuses for uncivilized and illegal behavior simply because they want to be "on the right side". It unacceptable and I won't tolerate it. I will speak out and condemn these people at every corner. Combating hate with hate doesn't work, because you can't force hate from someone's heart this way.

Every decent human being should aspire to want bigotry stamped out. But there is a proper way to achieve this. Those individuals who have been peacefully demonstrating do deserve applause. I just wish they would stand up to those among them that resort to uncivilized and illegal tactics to make their point.

Co-sign. This has been an issue long before Charlottesville. There have been speech suppression riots at various college campuses. Barack Obama criticized them, for goodness sake.

Quote
"I've heard of some college campuses where they don't want to have a guest speaker who is too conservative or they don't want to read a book if it has language that is offensive to African-Americans or somehow sends a demeaning signal toward women," Obama said. "I've got to tell you, I don't agree with that, either. I don't agree that you, when you become students at colleges, have to be coddled and protected from different points of view."

Quote
"I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up, and that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side," Obama said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obama-defends-free-speech-in-comments-on-campus-protests/article/2576469



« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 09:02:50 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #48 on: August 20, 2017, 09:31:19 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Free speech is something we should all embrace.

Similarly, condemning the speech and actions of hateful and violent bigots is something we should all do.

I'd love to see a joint rally based on those principles. It's one thing that liberals and conservatives should be able to agree upon.

Hear, hear!
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #49 on: August 20, 2017, 09:33:07 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Antifa scum are there in large numbers with masked faces.

This is going to get ugly I think.

Why do you need to cover your face if you plan on protesting peacefully?

You know what Antifa stands for and what they fight against, right?
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #50 on: August 20, 2017, 09:41:15 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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and it seems that the neo-fascists were simply dwarfed by the anti-fascist turnout, and then tucked their tails between their legs and left.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/boston-crowd-anti-racists-dwarfs-free-speech-rally-170819180115802.html

good turn out to show the right wing that they are not even close to the majority of voices.


Why not turn out to the voting booth instead of shutting down free speech?

Bunch of facists(BLM, Antifa) and useful idiots.....

My wife and I were there.  I never saw the Free Speech ralliers.  In the end, it was a large rally of people protesting white supremacy and racism.

I was proud to be a part of it, and to show the world what ideals our corner of the world doesn't stand for.
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C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2017, 09:44:21 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I'm not going to get into it in detail but it needs to be said.

I don't like how certain elements on the right, including posters on this blog, talk about BLM.  I'm not a big fan of Antigua. But it is wrong in my book to lump BLM together with them. And it is worse to somehow use this to equate BLM with the KKK.

I'm aware of the attempt to delegitimize BLM by equating them with other groups. We can do better than that here on Cblog.

Again, I'm not going to get into a back and forth on this.

I've never been, but I hear Antiqua is beautiful.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:16 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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You know what Antifa stands for and what they fight against, right?

They may think that is what they stand for, but their methods are almost as bad as those they stand against sometimes.

Quote
Antifa protesters participated in the 2017 Berkeley protests where they gained mainstream media attention, "throwing Molotov cocktails and smashing windows."[3][16] Later, two Antifa groups threatened to disrupt the 2017 82nd Avenue of Roses Parade after hearing that the Multnomah County Republican Party would participate. The parade organizers received an anonymous email, saying, "You have seen how much power we have downtown and that the police cannot stop us from shutting down roads so please consider your decision wisely". The email also said that 200 people would "rush into the parade" and "drag and push" those marching with the Republican Party. The two groups denied having anything to do with the email. The parade ended up being canceled by the organizers due to safety concerns.[23][24]

Antifa counter protestors at the the far-right 2017 Unite the Right rally In Charlottesville, Virginia in August 2017 "certainly used clubs and dyed liquids against the white supremacists."[25] Journalist Adele Stan interviewed an Antifa protester at the rally who said that the sticks carried by Antifa protesters are a justifiable countermeasure to the fact that "the right has a goon squad."[26] Some Antifa participants at the Charlottesville rally chanted that counter-protesters should "punch a Nazi in the mouth."[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)


Look at these, I wonder if you know what they stand for:

https://itsgoingdown.org/library/#Guns

I think they had a good purpose to start but are heading down a slippery slope.   Not defending the Hate Groups, but how are these guys much different?   Preaching violence and sabotage.

I think their purpose holds a higher moral ground but their methods undermine it. 

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2017, 10:01:31 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Antifa scum are there in large numbers with masked faces.

This is going to get ugly I think.

Why do you need to cover your face if you plan on protesting peacefully?

You know what Antifa stands for and what they fight against, right?

Because a group is under the guise of anti facist, it doesn't mean that's what they truly are. They are well funded by George Soros( a real Nazi collaborator), who's "charity funds have been banned from China, Russia and other countries, to cause chaos,riots,race wars.He is doing this to crash the stock market and kill economies. He has done this all over the world.

People should really start researching before supporting groups like this.

Unless that's what you want......

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2017, 12:06:51 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Antifa scum are there in large numbers with masked faces.

This is going to get ugly I think.

Why do you need to cover your face if you plan on protesting peacefully?

You know what Antifa stands for and what they fight against, right?

Because a group is under the guise of anti facist, it doesn't mean that's what they truly are. They are well funded by George Soros( a real Nazi collaborator), who's "charity funds have been banned from China, Russia and other countries, to cause chaos,riots,race wars.He is doing this to crash the stock market and kill economies. He has done this all over the world.

People should really start researching before supporting groups like this.

Unless that's what you want......

Could you provide some legitimate documentation for your bizarre "research"?
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2017, 12:40:06 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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I'm not going to get into it in detail but it needs to be said.

I don't like how certain elements on the right, including posters on this blog, talk about BLM.  I'm not a big fan of Antigua. But it is wrong in my book to lump BLM together with them. And it is worse to somehow use this to equate BLM with the KKK.

I'm aware of the attempt to delegitimize BLM by equating them with other groups. We can do better than that here on Cblog.

Again, I'm not going to get into a back and forth on this.

Have you actually read the mission statement of BLM? Any of their quotes regarding their movement, political beliefs, or responses to those killed at their rallies? Any of the data that completely contradicts their claims? The BLM movement is one of the worst things that has happened to our country within the past few years.  And no one individual or group can be so irrationally extreme without being met with contention --  Hence, Trump's presidency.
Perfectly said. The BLM movement is a shocking one, and much of their message stems from a falsehood (the whole Michael Brown incident and "hands up don't shoot" springs to mind).

Glad to see they're being viewed as what they are.

They're being "viewed as what they are" because people would rather keep their heads in the sand and dismiss the legitimate complaints of people of color as whiny excuse-making.

People like to focus on a subset of the BLM movement, but then conveniently ignore things like this entire Twitter thread about BLM marshals actually *PROTECTING* Neo-Nazis who participating in the Boston march, specifically because they know people love to jump to the lazy, not-so-subtly racist conclusion of black people being inherently violent and riotous:

https://twitter.com/qwrrty/status/898998545088299008

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2017, 01:12:21 PM »

Offline action781

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I was not there but I followed the happenings leading up to the event closely, as well as the event itself as it unfolded, through livestream. I do not know the organizer, John Medlar, but I looked into him, by all accounts he is a libertarian leaning Republican who was concerned about free speech being under attack across the nation, most notably on college campuses. Medlar organized this event, and echoed time and time again, to anyone that would listen, that white nationalists were not welcome to speak at this particular event. Medlar even reached out to Black Lives Matter and other left leaning organizations to try to quell the misunderstanding. The events unfolded and this mythical narrative, that this was some form of racist rally, persists.

I find this troubling on multiple levels:

- The attack on free speech.
- The lack of honest journalism/media.
- The blatant demagoguery by politicians.
- Ignored or downplayed violence.

To name a few.

Yeah, I'm with you.  To share the first two paragraphs from their event on facebook:

Quote
This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

This event was planned long before Charlottesville and is the sequel to a similar event held I believe in May or June.

https://www.facebook.com/events/101232260566245/?active_tab=about
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2017, 02:40:52 PM »

Offline Cman

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I was not there but I followed the happenings leading up to the event closely, as well as the event itself as it unfolded, through livestream. I do not know the organizer, John Medlar, but I looked into him, by all accounts he is a libertarian leaning Republican who was concerned about free speech being under attack across the nation, most notably on college campuses. Medlar organized this event, and echoed time and time again, to anyone that would listen, that white nationalists were not welcome to speak at this particular event. Medlar even reached out to Black Lives Matter and other left leaning organizations to try to quell the misunderstanding. The events unfolded and this mythical narrative, that this was some form of racist rally, persists.

I find this troubling on multiple levels:

- The attack on free speech.
- The lack of honest journalism/media.
- The blatant demagoguery by politicians.
- Ignored or downplayed violence.

To name a few.

Yeah, I'm with you.  To share the first two paragraphs from their event on facebook:

Quote
This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

This event was planned long before Charlottesville and is the sequel to a similar event held I believe in May or June.

https://www.facebook.com/events/101232260566245/?active_tab=about

These are good points but I hope you all also realize that the counterprotesters in Boston were not even so much protesting the actual event (though of course there was this) as they were protesting what happened in Charlottesville.

The fact that the KKK was apparently going to show up at the event made it really important to a number of people that they show up and counterprotest.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2017, 02:42:47 PM »

Offline Cman

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I posted this in the president Trump thread before it was locked

KKK members from the springfield,ma area are planning on attending the free speech rally in Boston tomorrow.  They have nothing to do with organizing the rally, or speaking at it.

Here is a statement from the people organizing the rally

Quote
Quote
Details
This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech

Now let me ask you, if the KKK members are going there to highjack the rally and provoke violence, will all the other people that are there for a free speech be labeled racists or Nazi/KKK sympathizers?

To my post a moment ago, ^^this^^ is a big reason that there were a lot of counterprotesters in Boston.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2017, 03:10:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Free speech is a protected right in this country and neither the left leaning radical groups nor the right leaning radical groups should ever resort to violence to either stop free speech or to protect their right to free speech. Violence is never necessary.

That said groups on both sides of the aisle sometimes gather in protest looking for violence. Obviously the Alt-Right, Nazis and KKK were looking to incite violence in Charlottesville and we see what happened. I also think some groups showed at the Boston rally looking for violence and it happened, in small amounts as compared to Charlottesville and was caused by either BLM or antifa. Don't know which.

The only way to stop white supremacy, racism, white nationalism, nazism, black trust of police, and far left antifa problems is educating our youth and children that these things are abhorent in our society. Its the only way to stamp out these extreme un-American values. Its not going to happen right away. It may take many generations to do it but the more we teach our kids about how bad these values are, the sooner it will eventually happen.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 05:40:26 PM by nickagneta »