Author Topic: ALT right rallies  (Read 6728 times)

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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2017, 09:45:16 AM »

Offline Cman

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2017, 09:52:52 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2017, 09:58:44 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Antifa burns the American flag, takes down statues of American history, and puts in its place the communist flag. They are literal enemies

It makes them losers.

It doesn't even come close to making them "enemies"

Let's not let our political differences cloud our view of who our enemies are.

Our enemies are terrorists, be they jihadists, white supremacists or KKK. Dylan Roof or the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the guys that we need to be calling enemies, along with the racists that create the websites that enable these guys.

Not loser kids from the suburbs with nothing better to do on a weekend afternoon except burn a flag.

If white supremacists are the enemy, so are flag-burning, anti-American anarchist thugs. I think they both are, much like other violent criminals.

I think liberals are buying too much into the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset. Why aren't the more mainstream protestors rejecting the violence on the fringe? What good does AntiFa serve, other than giving extremists on the right a scapegoat?

Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:22:06 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #93 on: August 21, 2017, 10:06:22 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Antifa burns the American flag, takes down statues of American history, and puts in its place the communist flag. They are literal enemies

It makes them losers.

It doesn't even come close to making them "enemies"

Let's not let our political differences cloud our view of who our enemies are.

Our enemies are terrorists, be they jihadists, white supremacists or KKK. Dylan Roof or the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the guys that we need to be calling enemies, along with the racists that create the websites that enable these guys.

Not loser kids from the suburbs with nothing better to do on a weekend afternoon except burn a flag.

The irony is literally everything he's listing, save for removing statues of "history" (of venerating pro-slavery traitors), which antifa didn't even do, is free speech.

But I for one am excited to see "antifa" turn into a blanket term for any and all left-wing protestors for the next decade or so.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #94 on: August 21, 2017, 10:18:43 AM »

Offline Cman

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2017, 10:23:05 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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But I for one am excited to see "antifa" turn into a blanket term for any and all left-wing protestors for the next decade or so.

People shouldn't be surprised when they get lumped in with the people they walk shoulder to shoulder with and refuse to distance themselves from nor condemn for their terroristic tendencies.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2017, 10:25:24 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.

Not really. A mob that shuts down free speech without even knowing the message isn't heroic. Rather, it's an ignorant bunch of speech-repressing bullies.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2017, 10:27:24 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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But I for one am excited to see "antifa" turn into a blanket term for any and all left-wing protestors for the next decade or so.

Sort of like "alt-right" or "right wing extremist"?


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2017, 10:27:46 AM »

Offline Cman

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Antifa burns the American flag, takes down statues of American history, and puts in its place the communist flag. They are literal enemies

It makes them losers.

It doesn't even come close to making them "enemies"

Let's not let our political differences cloud our view of who our enemies are.

Our enemies are terrorists, be they jihadists, white supremacists or KKK. Dylan Roof or the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the guys that we need to be calling enemies, along with the racists that create the websites that enable these guys.

Not loser kids from the suburbs with nothing better to do on a weekend afternoon except burn a flag.

If white supremacists are the enemy, so are flag-burning, anti-American anarchist thugs. I think they both are, much like other violent criminals.

I think liberals are buying too much into the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset. Why aren't the more mainstream protestors rejecting the violence on the fringe? What good does AntiFa serve, other than giving extremists on the right a scapegoat?

Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

I reject Antifa. (I think I said something like this a few pages back, or perhaps in a different thread). I agree there should be more people saying this.

But, let's be very, very clear about who the enemy is. Dylan Roof, the racist who shot black churchgoers in Charleston, is an enemy to all American people.

Anyone who condones what he did, or wants to apologize for him in any way, is an enemy.

Anyone who wants to intimidate others by suggesting that such actions might happen in the future, is an enemy.

Maybe the time will come to equate Antifa to Dylan Roof. But at this point there is absolutely no reason for us to do that. They burnt some flags and threw urine? It's lame. Its destruction of property. Its stupid. But it isn't even in the same ballpark as neo-Nazis like Roof.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #99 on: August 21, 2017, 10:29:05 AM »

Offline Cman

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.

Not really. A mob that shuts down free speech without even knowing the message isn't heroic. Rather, it's an ignorant bunch of speech-repressing bullies.

But that's because "the message" changed at the last moment. Many people thought "the message" was going to be a racist one, as I stated above.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #100 on: August 21, 2017, 10:35:09 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Antifa burns the American flag, takes down statues of American history, and puts in its place the communist flag. They are literal enemies

It makes them losers.

It doesn't even come close to making them "enemies"

Let's not let our political differences cloud our view of who our enemies are.

Our enemies are terrorists, be they jihadists, white supremacists or KKK. Dylan Roof or the Tsarnaev brothers, these are the guys that we need to be calling enemies, along with the racists that create the websites that enable these guys.

Not loser kids from the suburbs with nothing better to do on a weekend afternoon except burn a flag.

If white supremacists are the enemy, so are flag-burning, anti-American anarchist thugs. I think they both are, much like other violent criminals.

I think liberals are buying too much into the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset. Why aren't the more mainstream protestors rejecting the violence on the fringe? What good does AntiFa serve, other than giving extremists on the right a scapegoat?

Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

I reject Antifa. (I think I said something like this a few pages back, or perhaps in a different thread). I agree there should be more people saying this.

But, let's be very, very clear about who the enemy is. Dylan Roof, the racist who shot black churchgoers in Charleston, is an enemy to all American people.

Anyone who condones what he did, or wants to apologize for him in any way, is an enemy.

Anyone who wants to intimidate others by suggesting that such actions might happen in the future, is an enemy.

Maybe the time will come to equate Antifa to Dylan Roof. But at this point there is absolutely no reason for us to do that. They burnt some flags and threw urine? It's lame. Its destruction of property. Its stupid. But it isn't even in the same ballpark as neo-Nazis like Roof.

They also Assault police officers. Tacit support for such actions leads to psychos like Micah Xavier Johnson.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #101 on: August 21, 2017, 10:35:18 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.

Not really. A mob that shuts down free speech without even knowing the message isn't heroic. Rather, it's an ignorant bunch of speech-repressing bullies.

But that's because "the message" changed at the last moment. Many people thought "the message" was going to be a racist one, as I stated above.


If people didn't know what the free speech rally was ever supposed to be about its because you refuse to listen to anything besides your own voice.

There was no last minute change to the platform the free speech supporters intended to promote. People who wanted to protest them just created a narrative in their own minds and assigned it to a group of people they didn't really understand because they never took the time to.


Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #102 on: August 21, 2017, 10:36:47 AM »

Offline Cman

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Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not a fan of Antifa as I've stated before. But they are worlds apart from white supremacists.

Or maybe I don't fully understand what it is that white supremacists want, or what Antifa wants.

In any case, it's now clear to me that I need to take a break from Celticsblog for a while.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #103 on: August 21, 2017, 10:38:04 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.

Not really. A mob that shuts down free speech without even knowing the message isn't heroic. Rather, it's an ignorant bunch of speech-repressing bullies.

But that's because "the message" changed at the last moment. Many people thought "the message" was going to be a racist one, as I stated above.

Is it too much to ask that speech is uttered before the mob shuts it down?  Or is violent bullying cool based upon assumptions?

1984 is so tired. Time to move on to Minority Report.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #104 on: August 21, 2017, 10:40:43 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not a fan of Antifa as I've stated before. But they are worlds apart from white supremacists.

Or maybe I don't fully understand what it is that white supremacists want, or what Antifa wants.

In any case, it's now clear to me that I need to take a break from Celticsblog for a while.

White supremacists want to take rights away from some people, sometimes violently.

AntiFa want to take rights away from people, sometimes violently.

Both are evil.  That one group hates based upon color and the other hates based upon creed doesn't make a huge difference.


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DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...