Author Topic: ALT right rallies  (Read 9840 times)

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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #105 on: August 21, 2017, 10:42:15 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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But I for one am excited to see "antifa" turn into a blanket term for any and all left-wing protestors for the next decade or so.

People shouldn't be surprised when they get lumped in with the people they walk shoulder to shoulder with and refuse to distance themselves from nor condemn for their terroristic tendencies.

I'm not the least bit surprised, but you're glossing over the part where it's incredibly dishonest. Every group of antifa I've seen has been a few dozen to perhaps a hundred people amongst rallies of thousands or tens of thousands. They don't have enough shoulders to be marching shoulder-to-shoulder with the 99+% that aren't affiliated.

It's not a sizable part of anything, it's just yet another convenient boogeyman term to elicit a Pavlovian response from a malleable, credulous audience, smear tens of thousands of good people at a pop, and distract from/minimize the far nastier groups steadily gaining influence and "respectability" on the right that antifa is a reaction to.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #106 on: August 21, 2017, 10:44:17 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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But I for one am excited to see "antifa" turn into a blanket term for any and all left-wing protestors for the next decade or so.

People shouldn't be surprised when they get lumped in with the people they walk shoulder to shoulder with and refuse to distance themselves from nor condemn for their terroristic tendencies.

I'm not the least bit surprised, but you're glossing over the part where it's incredibly dishonest. Every group of antifa I've seen has been a few dozen to perhaps a hundred people amongst rallies of thousands or tens of thousands. They don't have enough shoulders to be marching shoulder-to-shoulder with the 99+% that aren't affiliated.

It's not a sizable part of anything, it's just yet another convenient boogeyman term to elicit a Pavlovian response from a malleable, credulous audience, smear tens of thousands of good people at a pop, and distract from/minimize the far nastier groups steadily gaining influence and "respectability" on the right that antifa is a reaction to.

So, since it's a 100:1 ratio, it would be easy to expel them if desired, right?


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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #107 on: August 21, 2017, 10:44:25 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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Marching alongside AntiFa is only slightly better than marching next to a white supremacist.

Wow. I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not a fan of Antifa as I've stated before. But they are worlds apart from white supremacists.

Or maybe I don't fully understand what it is that white supremacists want, or what Antifa wants.

In any case, it's now clear to me that I need to take a break from Celticsblog for a while.

It's kind of perversely fascinating watching the propaganda line steadily subsume the dialogue, though.  By next month neo-Nazi murder will be fake news and antifa will be running the DNC.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #108 on: August 21, 2017, 10:44:52 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Literal vampire pot belly goblins , hobbling around coming after us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPTrIK0i7b4

That's what Antifa  is
 ;)

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #109 on: August 21, 2017, 11:08:18 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

300 people wanted to listen to libertarian-oriented speeches. 15,000+ "counter protestors" decided the speakers shouldn't speak, and the listeners shouldn't listen.

We now know ex post that none of the speakers who showed up were outwardly racist. We didn't know that ex ante.

We now know that the KKK didn't show up at the rally. We didn't know that ex ante.

15,000 - 40,000 American citizens showed up as counter protesters to make a statement about racism, and the fact that everyone anticipated that there would be so many of these counter protesters probably led the KKK to not show up, and we do know led to some of the racists who were originally scheduled to speak to drop out. So I guess it is these guys whose free speech was impinged upon that we should be talking about, not the 300 who showed up who did get the right to speak.

So do you have any proof the speakers were going to be racist? Or is this how the left in boston react whenever they see someone is about to have  a free speech rally? Because I've seen no official indication that the kkk was coming. Seems like the worst excuse ever, especially since the counter protestors can see the signs "black lives do matter" doesn't take a brain surgeon to say "ok this isn't the kkk"

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #110 on: August 21, 2017, 11:32:30 AM »

Offline action781

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So do you have any proof the speakers were going to be racist? Or is this how the left in boston react whenever they see someone is about to have  a free speech rally? Because I've seen no official indication that the kkk was coming. Seems like the worst excuse ever, especially since the counter protestors can see the signs "black lives do matter" doesn't take a brain surgeon to say "ok this isn't the kkk"

Here is the link to a poster of originally scheduled speakers:



Gavin McInnes, and Augustus Invictus dropped out for sure, and I'm not sure about Kyle Chapman. You can look up those names on the internet and make your own conclusions.  (TP rondohondo for pointing out my original error)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 11:48:56 AM by action781 »
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #111 on: August 21, 2017, 11:36:44 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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So do you have any proof the speakers were going to be racist? Or is this how the left in boston react whenever they see someone is about to have  a free speech rally? Because I've seen no official indication that the kkk was coming. Seems like the worst excuse ever, especially since the counter protestors can see the signs "black lives do matter" doesn't take a brain surgeon to say "ok this isn't the kkk"

Here is the link to a poster of originally scheduled speakers:



Gavin McInnes, Kyle Chapman, Augustus Invictus, and Joe Biggs all dropped out. You can look up those names on the internet and make your own conclusions.

Joe Biggs, military vet ( not a racist) was there .....

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2017, 11:42:25 AM »

Offline action781

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

I was at the rally and mostly agree none were outwardly racist (although one delusional fella was wearing a highly questionable "Stop White Genocide" t-shirt).  I also witnessed bullying and harassing when they came out to Boylston St. 

I would not say that the rally was "forced to shut down".  Shiva was their main speaker and he only spoke for like 12 minutes.  The entire rally lasted 30-45 minutes maybe?  They just appeared to run out of speakers and their rally simply ended earlier than they expected to. 
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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By all accounts, those attempting to speak at the Boston rally were peaceful and rejected hate speech. Yet they were bullied into silence by a mob. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. It's certainly not any more reflective of our American ideals than hate speech is.

Maybe I haven't been following this as closely as some on Celticsblog. So, I just googled it and pulled up a local news stations reporting.

http://www.wcvb.com/article/free-speech-rally-fight-supremacy-rally-boston-common/12036148

Here are two excerpts
Quote
Several verbal confrontations were heard between counterprotesters and rally attendees as they tried to reach the bandstand. Some of the counterprotesters, who said it was their duty to support free speech, were seen helping the rally attendees through the dense crowd.

Quote
TV cameras showed a group of boisterous counterprotesters on the Common chasing a man with a Trump campaign banner and cap, shouting and swearing at him. But other counterprotesters intervened and helped the man safely over a fence into the area where the conservative rally was to be staged.

It sure doesn't sound like the crowd of 20,000 (or maybe 40,000?) was bullied by the mob of Antifa.

There were around 300 people there for the free speech rally, none of whom were at least outwardly racist. They were bullied and harassed, and the free speech rally was forced to shut down.

I was at the rally and mostly agree none were outwardly racist (although one delusional fella was wearing a highly questionable "Stop White Genocide" t-shirt).  I also witnessed bullying and harassing when they came out to Boylston St. 

I would not say that the rally was "forced to shut down".  Shiva was their main speaker and he only spoke for like 12 minutes.  The entire rally lasted 30-45 minutes maybe?  They just appeared to run out of speakers and their rally simply ended earlier than they expected to.

There weren't anymore speakers because the police wouldn't let them in. Antifa was blocking the entrance ( Chris Curtis from weei was there reporting this).

Later in the day the commissioner was asked this and he said, well we didn't want them there so they weren't let in.....

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2017, 11:56:49 AM »

Offline action781

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There weren't anymore speakers because the police wouldn't let them in. Antifa was blocking the entrance ( Chris Curtis from weei was there reporting this).

Later in the day the commissioner was asked this and he said, well we didn't want them there so they weren't let in.....

If you could link to either of those stories, I'd appreciate that because I couldn't find either when googling for them.  I personally watched people getting let in to the bandstand (by police escort after being searched for weapons) as late as 12:15 or so.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2017, 12:00:56 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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There weren't anymore speakers because the police wouldn't let them in. Antifa was blocking the entrance ( Chris Curtis from weei was there reporting this).

Later in the day the commissioner was asked this and he said, well we didn't want them there so they weren't let in.....

If you could link to either of those stories, I'd appreciate that because I couldn't find either when googling for them.  I personally watched people getting let in to the bandstand (by police escort after being searched for weapons) as late as 12:15 or so.

http://www.weei.com/media/audio-channel/kc-curtis-first-hand-report-boston-protests-dino-returning-radio-8-21-17

Around 3:20 mark
I'll try to find a vid from the other one, but it was from the press conference with mayor walsh.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2017, 12:16:50 PM »

Offline Greenback

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Please read Dinesh D'Souza book:  The Big Lie, Exposing the Nazi Roots of the American Left.

He makes a compelling argument that the KKK, Slavery, Nazi, Communism, Socialism and Antifa are all part of the left-wing movement. 

It would be great to hear a debate after you read the book.
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2017, 12:48:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If the people running this free speech gathering had any brains, they would have postponed the demonstration until people calmed down from the incidents that occurred in Charlottesville. The country as a whole, yes conservatives and liberals, are angry and still disgusted and the wound is very much still open. Any gathering that was even close in subject matter was going to be massively protested against and the chance for some violence would exist.

Yes the Boston Free Speech organizers denounced the Unite the Right organizers, stated vehemently that they had nothing to do with them and that their cause was completely different but they still should have postponed. If they had the same event in November, I doubt 40,000 counter protesters and protesters of radical groups like white supremists and the KKK would have shown up.

Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2017, 12:50:58 PM »

Offline byennie

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So do you have any proof the speakers were going to be racist? Or is this how the left in boston react whenever they see someone is about to have  a free speech rally? Because I've seen no official indication that the kkk was coming. Seems like the worst excuse ever, especially since the counter protestors can see the signs "black lives do matter" doesn't take a brain surgeon to say "ok this isn't the kkk"

It was a totally reasonable expectation after Charlottesville. I don't see how anyone was supposed to "prove" who would show up in Boston. Nobody really knew, especially the general public. Obviously this would not have been the reaction to a small "free speech" rally unassociated with any hate groups if not for the events earlier this month. So don't beg that question.

What's the point of your "brain surgeon" comment? I don't understand why you are so eager to mock people for showing up to counter-protest hate groups, when every indication including media and public officials led them to believe that's what they would find. Hate groups didn't show up. Good. The crowd didn't immediately decipher what was going on. It's not totally obvious why on earth Shiva would be there playing coy about free speech just a couple weeks after Charlottesville. That was rather reckless. Any opportunity to mock "the left", I guess. Can't we just be happy that the KKK *didn't* come to Boston, and that tens of thousands of people were ready to stand up to them? How is that a left/right thing?
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Re: ALT right rallies
« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2017, 12:56:06 PM »

Offline byennie

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If the people running this free speech gathering had any brains, they would have postponed the demonstration until people calmed down from the incidents that occurred in Charlottesville. The country as a whole, yes conservatives and liberals, are angry and still disgusted and the wound is very much still open. Any gathering that was even close in subject matter was going to be massively protested against and the chance for some violence would exist.

Yes the Boston Free Speech organizers denounced the Unite the Right organizers, stated vehemently that they had nothing to do with them and that their cause was completely different but they still should have postponed. If they had the same event in November, I doubt 40,000 counter protesters and protesters of radical groups like white supremists and the KKK would have shown up.

Exactly. It was reckless and selfish. Someone could have been hurt at that rally because this small group insisted on moving forward. As a bonus, it's created a ton of confusion.
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