gordon hayward acquisition subdued

[rollie mass]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

[Sophomore]

I think people are excited for Hayward, but we're not over the moon because we had visions of PG13 (who's a notch above Hayward, especially on D) and because the Cs still don't look like we have enough to beat the Cavs. Also, most people haven't seen a lot of Hayward. He only made a leap last year and he plays in Utah. If the team catches fire in the second half of the season, you'll see plenty of excitement.

[GreenEnvy]

I think people are excited for Hayward, but we're not over the moon because we had visions of PG13 (who's a notch above Hayward, especially on D) and because the Cs still don't look like we have enough to beat the Cavs. Also, most people haven't seen a lot of Hayward. He only made a leap last year and he plays in Utah. If the team catches fire in the second half of the season, you'll see plenty of excitement.

Four years of Hayward in exchange for the renouncing of a couple role players is a far better coup than one year of George for multiple assets.

I'm very excited for Hayward. The guy wants to be here. No doubt he buys into the team and city. Can't say the same about George.

[Ogaju]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

the reason there is no jubilation is that people realize there is that juggernaut in California known as GSW. Also, beating LeBron does not put the Celtics over the top. The top is GSW, not Cleveland.

[Jvalin]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

If it were a trade it would be something like

Hayward($29,727,900) + Morris($5,000,000) for Bradley($8,808,989) + Olynyk ($10,607,169) + Amir ($11,000,000) + Jerebko ($4,000,000) + 2019 second round pick

Hayward + Morris = $34,727,900
Bradley + Olynyk + Amir + Jerebko = $34,416,158

Obviously, Boston wins that trade all day long. Having said that, there wasn't just one way for the C's to make room for Hayward.

- Could we have received a better return for Bradley (especially if we had planned ahead)?
- Could we have traded someone else instead of Bradley (Crowder/Smart/Thomas)?
- Could we have drafted Fultz at #1 while trading one of AB/Crowder/Smart/Thomas for future pick(s)?

Of course we could have done all of those things. In fact, options were virtually unlimited.

Not to mention, there were many people hoping Danny would sign Hayward and then trade for another star as well.

To put it another way, given the circumstances we could have done better (but we could also have done a lot worse).

[mmmmm]

I like to think of it as being "quietly confident" rather than wasting energy on being cocky.

I'm extremely pleased with our off-season moves and assuming good health, my expectations are very high for the Cs.

[No Nickname]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

I was going to say something similar, but most of those guys were flotsam/jetsam and we would have cut them regardless of Hayward coming.  Amir, Jerebko, Young, Jackson, etc. etc.  The most valuable of those may have been Jerebko, but he's limited to a spot up shooter and occasional big defender.

If it were a trade, I might look at it more like this:

Olynyk/Bradley for Hayward/Morris/Baynes

If you want to break it into two trades the comparison might be:

Olynyk for Hayward.  And Bradley for Morris/Baynes.

I'd say we win the first one by a mile.  And the second one is an even split in terms of winners/losers.

Olynyk/Bradley were looking at some big paydays that we just couldn't afford and also make the team better. 

It's true that Hayward got the payday, but Morris/Baynes are very affordable. 

[Jvalin]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

I was going to say something similar, but most of those guys were flotsam/jetsam and we would have cut them regardless of Hayward coming.  Amir, Jerebko, Young, Jackson, etc. etc.  The most valuable of those may have been Jerebko, but he's limited to a spot up shooter and occasional big defender.

If it were a trade, I might look at it more like this:

Olynyk/Bradley for Hayward/Morris/Baynes

If you want to break it into two trades the comparison might be:

Olynyk for Hayward.  And Bradley for Morris/Baynes.

I'd say we win the first one by a mile.  And the second one is an even split in terms of winners/losers.

Olynyk/Bradley were looking at some big paydays that we just couldn't afford and also make the team better. 

It's true that Hayward got the payday, but Morris/Baynes are very affordable.

The Baynes acquisition had nothing to do with Hayward. We signed him with the room exception. Not to mention, you are forgetting about the second rounder we sent to the Pistons in the Morris trade.

So exluding Amir + JJ the trade would be

Hayward + Morris for Bradley + Kelly + 2019 second rounder

Again, Boston wins that trade all day long. Having said that, there wasn't just one way for the C's to make room for Hayward. For instance, could we have drafted Fultz at #1 while trading one of AB/Crowder/Smart/Thomas for future pick(s)? Of course we could. In fact, options were virtually unlimited.

Personally speaking, I was never a fan of the Pistons trade and I hate the Sixers trade. But that's just me.

[No Nickname]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

I was going to say something similar, but most of those guys were flotsam/jetsam and we would have cut them regardless of Hayward coming.  Amir, Jerebko, Young, Jackson, etc. etc.  The most valuable of those may have been Jerebko, but he's limited to a spot up shooter and occasional big defender.

If it were a trade, I might look at it more like this:

Olynyk/Bradley for Hayward/Morris/Baynes

If you want to break it into two trades the comparison might be:

Olynyk for Hayward.  And Bradley for Morris/Baynes.

I'd say we win the first one by a mile.  And the second one is an even split in terms of winners/losers.

Olynyk/Bradley were looking at some big paydays that we just couldn't afford and also make the team better. 

It's true that Hayward got the payday, but Morris/Baynes are very affordable.

The Baynes acquisition had nothing to do with Hayward. We signed him with the room exception. Not to mention, you are forgetting about the second rounder we sent to the Pistons in the Morris trade.

So exluding Amir + JJ the trade would be

Hayward + Morris for Bradley + Kelly + 2019 second rounder

Again, Boston wins that trade all day long. Having said that, there wasn't just one way for the C's to make room for Hayward. For instance, could we have drafted Fultz at #1 while trading one of AB/Crowder/Smart/Thomas for future pick(s)? Of course we could. In fact, options were virtually unlimited.

Personally speaking, I never really liked the Pistons trade and I hate the Sixers trade. But that's just me.

I won't quibble about excluding Baynes from that "trade" (I do realize he wasn't actually part of the Bradley/Morris trade). 

But then look at it as a third trade of:

Amir/JJ (cut) for Baynes (room exception)

Amir is just not getting it done any more, and we still need to see what Baynes is all about.  I'd say this is close to wash with maybe the C's coming out slightly behind.  But JJ just wouldn't get playing time on this year's team.  Baynes will. 

[Jvalin]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

I was going to say something similar, but most of those guys were flotsam/jetsam and we would have cut them regardless of Hayward coming.  Amir, Jerebko, Young, Jackson, etc. etc.  The most valuable of those may have been Jerebko, but he's limited to a spot up shooter and occasional big defender.

If it were a trade, I might look at it more like this:

Olynyk/Bradley for Hayward/Morris/Baynes

If you want to break it into two trades the comparison might be:

Olynyk for Hayward.  And Bradley for Morris/Baynes.

I'd say we win the first one by a mile.  And the second one is an even split in terms of winners/losers.

Olynyk/Bradley were looking at some big paydays that we just couldn't afford and also make the team better. 

It's true that Hayward got the payday, but Morris/Baynes are very affordable.

The Baynes acquisition had nothing to do with Hayward. We signed him with the room exception. Not to mention, you are forgetting about the second rounder we sent to the Pistons in the Morris trade.

So exluding Amir + JJ the trade would be

Hayward + Morris for Bradley + Kelly + 2019 second rounder

Again, Boston wins that trade all day long. Having said that, there wasn't just one way for the C's to make room for Hayward. For instance, could we have drafted Fultz at #1 while trading one of AB/Crowder/Smart/Thomas for future pick(s)? Of course we could. In fact, options were virtually unlimited.

Personally speaking, I never really liked the Pistons trade and I hate the Sixers trade. But that's just me.

I won't quibble about excluding Baynes from that "trade" (I do realize he wasn't actually part of the Bradley/Morris trade). 

But then look at it as a third trade of:

Amir/JJ (cut) for Baynes (room exception)

Amir is just not getting it done any more, and we still need to see what Baynes is all about.  I'd say this is close to wash with maybe the C's coming out slightly behind.  But JJ just wouldn't get playing time on this year's team.  Baynes will.

The way I look at it, the C's made 3 major moves during the off-season

- the Hayward acquisition
- the Sixers trade
- the Pistons trade

So yeah, I'd rather have Baynes than Amir or JJ, but at the same time

- I'd rather have the #1 pick than #3 + LA 2018/Sac 2019
- I'd rather have AB + 2019 second rounder than Morris

Not to mention, I was gutted when we traded AB. I'd much rather have seen us trading someone else instead of him.

[Eddie20]

I would have expected the boards to still be jubilant  instead of subdued
Is it all the moves of superstars that didn't toil in utah
We got freaking Gordon Hayward for nothing-nada, zilch,peanuts,not a plug nickle
and in his prime.
Has Isaiah spoiled us with his exploits last year-is it all the possibilities with the young core of high picks  and strong guys with long arms
Even Marcus is being ignored another really nice acquisition a smooth strong guy that can shoot-
Under the radar good-my kind of player sort of celtics old school and can guard lebron
that might put us over the top

We didn't get him for nothing. We had to trade Bradley, renounce Kelly-Amir-Jerebko-Zeller-Young, decline team option on Mickey and stretch Jackson (over 7 years). There is no doubt that Zeller-Young-Mickey-Jackson were fringe rotation players (to say the least), but still, we had to part ways with 8 players in order to create enough cap space for Hayward.

I was going to say something similar, but most of those guys were flotsam/jetsam and we would have cut them regardless of Hayward coming.  Amir, Jerebko, Young, Jackson, etc. etc.  The most valuable of those may have been Jerebko, but he's limited to a spot up shooter and occasional big defender.

If it were a trade, I might look at it more like this:

Olynyk/Bradley for Hayward/Morris/Baynes

If you want to break it into two trades the comparison might be:

Olynyk for Hayward.  And Bradley for Morris/Baynes.

I'd say we win the first one by a mile.  And the second one is an even split in terms of winners/losers.

Olynyk/Bradley were looking at some big paydays that we just couldn't afford and also make the team better. 

It's true that Hayward got the payday, but Morris/Baynes are very affordable.

The Baynes acquisition had nothing to do with Hayward. We signed him with the room exception. Not to mention, you are forgetting about the second rounder we sent to the Pistons in the Morris trade.

So exluding Amir + JJ the trade would be

Hayward + Morris for Bradley + Kelly + 2019 second rounder

Again, Boston wins that trade all day long. Having said that, there wasn't just one way for the C's to make room for Hayward. For instance, could we have drafted Fultz at #1 while trading one of AB/Crowder/Smart/Thomas for future pick(s)? Of course we could. In fact, options were virtually unlimited.

Personally speaking, I never really liked the Pistons trade and I hate the Sixers trade. But that's just me.

I won't quibble about excluding Baynes from that "trade" (I do realize he wasn't actually part of the Bradley/Morris trade). 

But then look at it as a third trade of:

Amir/JJ (cut) for Baynes (room exception)

Amir is just not getting it done any more, and we still need to see what Baynes is all about.  I'd say this is close to wash with maybe the C's coming out slightly behind.  But JJ just wouldn't get playing time on this year's team.  Baynes will.

The way I look at it, the C's made 3 major moves during the off-season

- the Hayward acquisition
- the Sixers trade
- the Pistons trade

So yeah, I'd rather have Baynes than Amir or JJ, but at the same time

- I'd rather have the #1 pick than #3 + LA 2018/Sac 2019
- I 'd rather have AB + 2019 second rounder than Morris

Not to mention, I was gutted when we traded AB. I'd much rather see us trading someone else instead of him.

That's shortsighted. Unlike Bradley, Morris is locked up through 2019 for a salary that's below the MLE. That's tremendous value for a quality rotational player. Plus, he actually fits a position of need (PF). In addition, that 2nd rd pick you mention is our own pick (currently protected for picks 31-55 and going to Memphis if it lands 56-60). So it's very likely that Memphis gets that pick and the obligation to Detroit becomes extinguished. That said, I'm not sure why you continue to bring up such a non-factor of a pick that will net us the next Colton Iverson, but then dismiss the potential home run of a pick that we received from Philly in the Fultz deal. Especially when Tatum could easily end up being the better pro.

[ThePaintedArea]

 Morris is locked up through 2019 for a salary that's below the MLE. That's tremendous value for a quality rotational player. Plus, he actually fits a position of need (PF).

Good points, both, and both are apart from the question of whether he's actually better than Avery.

... the potential home run of a pick that we received from Philly in the Fultz deal. Especially when Tatum could easily end up being the better pro.

And again, Tatum has length and fits, long-term, in the swing spot - for the future, he's a great fit no matter how the roster evolves.

Fultz is brilliant, no doubt about it, and I'd even confidently go farther and say that he's got a sure-fire future on multiple all-star teams... if it weren't for his knees. My not-100% ironclad prediction is that his career will end prematurely.

Next year's draft is especially interesting for bigs and swings; it was a real smart move to get another chance at a high lottery pick - and to save some money this year.

[chilidawg]

I like to think of it as:

Hayward for Bradley
Morris for Jerebko
Zizic and Baynes for Johnson and KO
Larkin for Jackson.

I think those are all clear wins except for the bigs, which is probably a toss up.  KO is the best of those 4, but Johnson is probably the worst.  Plus we added Tatum.  I'm psyched.

[ThePaintedArea]

- I'd rather have the #1 pick than #3 + LA 2018/Sac 2019

Meaning, I suppose, that you'd rather have Fultz than Tatum? I think that you could make the case. And certainly that 2018/19 pick could be a dud. If you look at it from the Celtics' point of view, though: they liked Tatum best; and by picking 3rd instead of 1st they save a significant amount of money - so from where they stand the pick is high-upside gravy, and could turn out to be a way to get a top-ranked big.

- I'd rather have AB + 2019 second rounder than Morris

Again I think that you could make a good case. But in the end, looking at the context of the whole roster, it makes sense.

Not to mention, I was gutted when we traded AB. I'd much rather have seen us trading someone else instead of him.

I feel you.  Such a shame, since he was the guy who'd continued from the last era and did everything that was asked of him, a leader, a key guy in building the team through the bad times - and then, just as the Promised Land comes into view...

[KGBirdBias]

I was hyped until I found out the cap decreased and we had to unload AB. It kind of soured the excitement of the signing. I'm still glad we got Hayward but it was kind of a downer at that moment.