Author Topic: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins  (Read 1077 times)

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Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« on: August 08, 2017, 12:42:52 PM »

Online Moranis

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/twolves/2017/08/08/andrew-wiggins-must-commit-timberwolves-glen-taylor-max-offer/547982001/

I mean, he has to meet with Wiggins to tell him to get better before he will give him an extension.  First, shouldn't he already know what Wiggins commitment, work ethic, etc. is?  Second, why on earth would he tell the media this?
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Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 01:46:32 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/twolves/2017/08/08/andrew-wiggins-must-commit-timberwolves-glen-taylor-max-offer/547982001/

I mean, he has to meet with Wiggins to tell him to get better before he will give him an extension.  First, shouldn't he already know what Wiggins commitment, work ethic, etc. is?  Second, why on earth would he tell the media this?

I don't know why he would tell this to the media. I actually thought he had a really strong summer with Teague, Gibson, Crawford and Butler so surprising to see him immediately do an awful tactic

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 01:50:06 PM »

Offline saltlover

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He didn't learn from the Kevin Love situation because LeBron bailed him out.  No more, no less.  Just a rich guy who thinks he can motivate his players better than his coaches.  Wiggins will sign the same contract next summer that Otto Porter did this year, and Taylor will get to decide if he wants to match it.  It'll be a worse contract for the Wolves than they could get for Wiggins right now.

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 02:15:54 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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He didn't learn from the Kevin Love situation because LeBron bailed him out.  No more, no less.  Just a rich guy who thinks he can motivate his players better than his coaches.  Wiggins will sign the same contract next summer that Otto Porter did this year, and Taylor will get to decide if he wants to match it.  It'll be a worse contract for the Wolves than they could get for Wiggins right now.
Why would 4 years 106 Million be worse than 5 years 148 Million? I think the wolves would much rather save 42 Million than just get 1 extra year from Wiggins. Plus Wiggins is going to sign that max 5 year extension anyway.
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Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 02:23:01 PM »

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Easy answer - Because the wolves are a terribly managed team.

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 02:24:47 PM »

Offline RIPRED

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 03:05:18 PM »

Offline saltlover

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He didn't learn from the Kevin Love situation because LeBron bailed him out.  No more, no less.  Just a rich guy who thinks he can motivate his players better than his coaches.  Wiggins will sign the same contract next summer that Otto Porter did this year, and Taylor will get to decide if he wants to match it.  It'll be a worse contract for the Wolves than they could get for Wiggins right now.
Why would 4 years 106 Million be worse than 5 years 148 Million? I think the wolves would much rather save 42 Million than just get 1 extra year from Wiggins. Plus Wiggins is going to sign that max 5 year extension anyway.

For starters, it will be for about $111 million, since the max salary will increase next year.
Secondly, it will contain a 15% trade kicker, which means the Wolves may wind up paying still a little more if they try to trade him.  It also may have a weird salary date, which could also mean the Wolves pay more money if they trade him.
Thirdly, and most importantly, it will have a player option for year 4.  So if Wiggins continues to get better, he'll get a new max deal at the 30% max-player threshold after 3 years, which will mean a higher salary than he'd otherwise make compared to years 4 and 5 of a max deal offered today.  And if Wiggins is ticked off by Taylor, as Love was, he will signal that he won't re-sign at all after those three years are up.

If Taylor's basketball people think Wiggins isn't worth the max, then they shouldn't offer it to him.  If they do, then they should.  Taylor's role should be as a cheerleader urging Wiggins to sign it and become a franchise player, not as someone who's trying to play mind games.

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 03:25:38 PM »

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.
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Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 05:02:05 PM »

Offline RIPRED

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.

Clarification on my statement: I'm really just saying that we might not have all the details. Not indicting Wiggins of anything since I've payed almost no attention to his career. The examples I gave were for devil's advocate purposes only.

With that said, I still don't see an issue with an owner meeting with his player or publicly discussing his/her opinion about a player who is about to sign a massive contract. Does it seem out of the ordinary? yes. Does that really matter? No. Is Taylor a bad owner? Signs point to yes. https://www.canishoopus.com/2017/4/18/15343924/kg-timberwolves-breakup-showed-me-the-true-glen-taylor

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 05:27:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.

Wouldn't Teague and Irving be extremely redundant? It also creates a roster imbalance for them where their pieces actually fit together really nice right now. While it is "good" value for the Cavs does it really help them next year? Their starting backcourt would be Rose and Jr Smith? That isn't beating golden State...

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 05:42:00 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.

Wouldn't Teague and Irving be extremely redundant? It also creates a roster imbalance for them where their pieces actually fit together really nice right now. While it is "good" value for the Cavs does it really help them next year? Their starting backcourt would be Rose and Jr Smith? That isn't beating golden State...
No they are much different players. Teague is a solid all around guard who does everything pretty good, but nothing spectacular. Can play off the ball or with the ball. Irving is only an offensive player, and isnít much of a facilitator, but is a fantastic scorer. He can play off the ball as well, but you want him to have the ball in his hands. Irving obviously canít guard shooting guards well, but he canít guard point guards either. Since itís a point guard driven league, it might be easier for him anyway to be guarding 2s instead. Plus having a great defensive player next to him in Jimmy and another solid one in Teague, he might be able to be hidden on defense, especially if Thibs is able to execute a good scheme.
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Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 06:38:12 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.

Wouldn't Teague and Irving be extremely redundant? It also creates a roster imbalance for them where their pieces actually fit together really nice right now. While it is "good" value for the Cavs does it really help them next year? Their starting backcourt would be Rose and Jr Smith? That isn't beating golden State...
No they are much different players. Teague is a solid all around guard who does everything pretty good, but nothing spectacular. Can play off the ball or with the ball. Irving is only an offensive player, and isnít much of a facilitator, but is a fantastic scorer. He can play off the ball as well, but you want him to have the ball in his hands. Irving obviously canít guard shooting guards well, but he canít guard point guards either. Since itís a point guard driven league, it might be easier for him anyway to be guarding 2s instead. Plus having a great defensive player next to him in Jimmy and another solid one in Teague, he might be able to be hidden on defense, especially if Thibs is able to execute a good scheme.

Gonna have to disagree with all of this. They are both 6'1-6'2 shoot first point guards. Can't really polish that one into anything else.

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 07:28:37 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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He's the owner , he pays all the salaries. If talking face to face with a player before giving him a max contract makes him feel more invested in the decision, and in turn  leads to him being more willing to open up the checkbook when the GM asks him to go over the cap to get a guy or two for a playoff run, then I don't see any issues with it.

Also, why is it at all considered strange for a billionaire to want to ask his employee face to face if he is willing to commit to be the best he can be before making him one of the highest paid people in the organization and committing the long term future of the franchise to him?

Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 08:17:49 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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Are we sure there aren't issues with Wiggins behind the scenes? Maybe Taylor knows something we don't? Wasn't Wiggins billed as a potential stud defender coming out of college? I haven't watched a ton of him, but it doesn't seem like he's lived up to his potential defensively. Either way, I personally don't hate the idea of an owner having a discussion with his player before making a massive financial commitment.
You don't think the owner has already had those conversations with his player.  Or at the very least high level management, including the coaches, haven't had those conversations.  It isn't like Wiggins was just drafted or they were thinking about adding him as a free agent, he has been there for 3 years. 

and even if everything you say is true and Taylor really hasn't had any conversations with his player, why on earth would he say any of that to the media?  It makes absolutely no sense. 

I'm more convinced Wiggins ends up as the main piece in an Irving trade now.

Wouldn't Teague and Irving be extremely redundant? It also creates a roster imbalance for them where their pieces actually fit together really nice right now. While it is "good" value for the Cavs does it really help them next year? Their starting backcourt would be Rose and Jr Smith? That isn't beating golden State...
No they are much different players. Teague is a solid all around guard who does everything pretty good, but nothing spectacular. Can play off the ball or with the ball. Irving is only an offensive player, and isnít much of a facilitator, but is a fantastic scorer. He can play off the ball as well, but you want him to have the ball in his hands. Irving obviously canít guard shooting guards well, but he canít guard point guards either. Since itís a point guard driven league, it might be easier for him anyway to be guarding 2s instead. Plus having a great defensive player next to him in Jimmy and another solid one in Teague, he might be able to be hidden on defense, especially if Thibs is able to execute a good scheme.

Gonna have to disagree with all of this. They are both 6'1-6'2 shoot first point guards. Can't really polish that one into anything else.
Judging by your lack of detail and accuracy, Iíd guess you have never seen Jeff Teague play. Thats ok, but stick to posting about stuff you know about then.
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Re: Glen Taylor's weird (and now public) request of Wiggins
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 08:50:12 PM »

Offline moiso

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He's the owner , he pays all the salaries. If talking face to face with a player before giving him a max contract makes him feel more invested in the decision, and in turn  leads to him being more willing to open up the checkbook when the GM asks him to go over the cap to get a guy or two for a playoff run, then I don't see any issues with it.

Also, why is it at all considered strange for a billionaire to want to ask his employee face to face if he is willing to commit to be the best he can be before making him one of the highest paid people in the organization and committing the long term future of the franchise to him?
It's not strange.  The strange part is that he's saying it to the media instead of Wiggins.  Seems like a Phil Jackson type move.