Poll

Celtics off-season grade

A / A-
B+/ B / B-
C+ / C / C-
D+ / D / D-
F+ / F

Author Topic: Grading Danny's offseason moves  (Read 10273 times)

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Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2017, 03:28:49 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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The remake of the roster was pretty drastic: away from bigs and to swings and wings who can create off the dribble.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2017, 03:30:45 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I like adding Hayward.

I am okay with Theis, Bird, Baynes, Semi, Nader, and Zizic all seem like guys worth taking shots on.

Dislike draft of Allen should have gone for a big or traded the pick away it's a stacked position. Larkin again this isnt a need unless Smart or Rozier are dealt why waste the spot and $. Yab not staying overseas or in dleague one more year kind of hurts the roster.

Really feel AB should have been dealt on draft night for a pick 12-18 range. Morris should be serviceable but he is a little too much of a SF.
 
Last thing, Danny needed something more concrete in giving up #1 to the 76ers. #3 and a dual protected pick is garbage for the #1 overall.

C-
Pretty misguided criticism of the trading of the #1 pick.

Considering Tatum was their guy all along, what would you have preferred: Jayson Tatum, or Jayson Tatum and a shot at a top pick next year (or the year after)? It's a no contest.

Seems an unbalanced grading
That's actually misguided. Just look at value of the draft position and the fact that Fultz was deemed the consensus #1. It was low return. What the players become may change the trade winner but as of right now that was a robbery for the 76ers. They should at the very least not  have accepted top protection.
the talent gap between Fultz and Tatum does not exist. All the top 5 picks and dsj have potential to be good contributors as well as future stars. Danny got away with robbery

So I believe ultimately what happened was that Tatum closed the gap to next-to-nothing from a skills standpoint.

I think that it was more than skills: his size and length with those skills, and his leadership and maturity, also played their parts.  If I were the Celtics' Brass, I'd also have had a concern about Fultz' knees/feet.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 05:36:33 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2017, 07:42:21 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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A / A- 51 (63%)
B+/ B / B- 24 (29.6%)
C+ / C / C- 3 (3.7%)
D+ / D / D- 2 (2.5%)
F+ / F 1 (1.2%)
Total Members Voted: 80

Poll is pretty decisive. Only 6 out of 80 votes for less than a B-.
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Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2017, 08:03:37 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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When we hang #18 this season .  He ll get his "A"

Amen.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2017, 08:14:30 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2017, 09:04:08 PM »

Online Moranis

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The salary cap doesn't stop Boston from signing any of their draft picks or free agents.  They can sign them for as much money as they want (or is allowed by the rules) without giving the salary cap a second thought.
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Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2017, 09:17:22 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I give Danny a B+.

The moves Danny made were all A's in my book. I like the Fultz trade, I love the Tatum pick, I love the Hayward signing, and I like the AB/Morris trade that allowed the Hayward signing. The smaller moves were good too.

At the same time, we've seen George and Butler both change teams for pennies on the dollar. It's tough for me to believe that the Celtics couldn't have put together a package for one of those guys. I understand that the cap situation was challenging, and I'd rather have Hayward for nothing than PG/JB for assets. But still, it's hard not to feel that the offseason could have gone better.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2017, 10:39:20 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+
Wow ::)
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2017, 11:56:41 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

I actually get what you're saying, but wouldn't his grade be INCOMPLETE until he either makes a trade or starts losing lottery players?

I mean, if he cashes in and lands a superstar, are you going to change his grade?
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Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2017, 12:09:14 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

Chicken Little had nothing on this guy.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2017, 10:37:45 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

I actually get what you're saying, but wouldn't his grade be INCOMPLETE until he either makes a trade or starts losing lottery players?

I mean, if he cashes in and lands a superstar, are you going to change his grade?

Welp... what I predicted happened... The Celtics just gave away a bunch of assets for Pennies on the dollar to make a lateral move at Point Guard... 

Final grade D+

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2017, 11:09:15 PM »

Offline action781

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Is it a lateral move at point guard if we were going to let IT walk this offseason instead of giving him a max?  If that was front office's planned response, then this is far from a lateral move.  Maybe its a good thing I'm not in front office, but I would have let IT walk instead of dealing with the consequences of giving him a max a few years down the road.  So I don't see it as moving laterally, I see it as gaining a superstar.
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Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2017, 11:16:00 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

Your understanding of the cap is... incomplete.

First round draft picks come with the first round draft pick exception. That means that every team, no matter their cap situation, can sign their first round picks. There is literally no situation where a team is forced to let picks walk because of their cap situation. There can be situations where a team wants to trade down or combine picks to preserve cap space (ie us thus year, or the Bulls with the McDermott trade a few years ago) or lower their tax bill, but we will always be able to sign our picks both when we pick them (via the first round pick exception) and when they become rfas (via bird rights)
I'm bitter.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2017, 04:11:49 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I had to give him a D+/D/D-

My final assessment is D+

I really liked the Tatum pick... I think he has great potential,

But that being said, the trade down was garbage.  It was the PERFECT time to trade for a superstar and instead the Celtics picked up yet another "asset" (which actually works against their interest as I'll explain later) in the form of a draft pick, and a young player.  The first overall pick is an A+ trade asset in any year, and the Celtics squandered that by not using it to improve any starting position on their team.

You see, Ainge has been waiting on this Treasure Trove of assets for YEARS for a superstar to change teams, all the while reassuring people that EVENTUALLY one would become available for cheap, because well... they always do.

But then this year THREE superstars became available for cheap, Paul George, Boogie Cousins, and Jimmy Butler... and the Celtics... sat on the sidelines and got outmaneuvered by teams with far less to offer...

The Celtics then followed that up by trading their best two way player away to give a MAX deal to Gordan Hayward.  Hayward is a very nice player, definitely a top 30 NBA player... possibly a top 20 NBA player, but definitely not a top ten NBA player.   

In any normal situation this would be a fine move, but the Celtics are now over the Salary Cap limit, with a big three of Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford.  If they max out Thomas, they'll have 90 million a year of a 99 million a year salary cap locked up in those three.  As it stands right now, the team salaries this year add up to 105 million (which is over the cap). This leaves them literally no room under the cap to sign draft picks (of which you'll recall they have a plethora), or resign Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, or Jaylen Brown when the time comes.  Even when Isaiah, Baynes, Larkin, and Smart come off the books next year the Celtics will be at 96 million in payroll with the potential cap hovering around 100 million.     

They've patiently waited themselves into a position where they'll now HAVE to give away assets just to sign their own draft picks.  Marcus Smart is a prime example of someone who will definitely be allowed to walk in free agency just because the Celtics won't have the cap space to retain him, fill out their own bench, and draft further prospects.  That is a former 6th overall pick who the Celtics are likely to get nothing in return for.  Isaiah Thomas (the Celtics best player) is potentially going to be allowed to walk.  Why?  Because the Celtics currently have 7 first round picks in the next three drafts... And will be at LEAST 25 million over the Salary cap if they resign Isaiah to a max extension after this season. 

They've now forced themselves into a position where they either have to let their best player, and some high lottery picks walk away for nothing, or trade assets for pennies on the dollar.  This is essentially the treadmill of mediocrity at work.  They're good enough to stay relevant, but they no longer have the cap flexibility to grow without an epic giveaway.

So here's my question, if it's painfully obvious to ANYONE reading this by now that the Celtics are going to have to combine picks and players in a trade for a superstar just so they don't have to continue letting high lottery picks walk away in free agency... WHY didn't the Celtics pull the trigger on a trade this year?  If they're going to be over the cap anyways... why couldn't they have Cousins, Butler, Isaiah, and Horford all playing on the same team this season?  Or, why don't they have Hayward, Cousins, Thomas, Horford, and George, right now?  Or any other of the combinations of obvious championship contenders they could have built while still retaining SOME combination of their 7 first round picks, 3 high lottery drafted rookies, and handful of below market value contracts for NBA starters that they currently possess?

The Celtics stocked their ship with so many assets that they're about to start taking on water... and the only way to stay above water will be to start tossing assets overboard.   

Final Grade D+

I actually get what you're saying, but wouldn't his grade be INCOMPLETE until he either makes a trade or starts losing lottery players?

I mean, if he cashes in and lands a superstar, are you going to change his grade?

Welp... what I predicted happened... The Celtics just gave away a bunch of assets for Pennies on the dollar to make a lateral move at Point Guard... 

Final grade D+

12 paragraphs complaining we wouldn't trade assets, including a top draft pick, for a star, then we do exactly that and nothing changes? You could've saved the 12 paragraphs.

Re: Grading Danny's offseason moves
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2017, 04:17:51 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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The time to "grade" pre-season moves is AFTER the season. How can you grade an exam before the exam is taken? All you know now are the questions. Takes a whole season to get the answers.