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10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« on: August 07, 2017, 04:51:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Today is the 10th anniversary of Barry Bonds 756th homerun.  He would finish that year with 762 and would never play again, despite hitting 28 HR's and leading the league in .OBP at .480 at the ripe old age of 42.  He is obviously not in the HOF because of steroids, but isn't it time the writers let that go.  Plenty of players are in the HOF that used speed and other drugs (Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for example and pretty much everyone in that era of any note).  Plenty of pitchers are in the HOF that openly used foreign substances.  Plenty of hitters are in the HOF that used pine tar or other hitting advantages (George Brett being the most well known). 
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:08:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.


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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 06:14:36 PM »

Offline eja117

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#notmyhomerunking

Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 06:21:09 PM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.


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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 10:53:16 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Yeah, I am over it. It was a dark time in baseball, but a time when so many players were 'juicing.' They were the best players of that era even if their stats are inflated and that's all that really matters in terms of the hall of fame.

On a related note, I am sick of the Pete Rose drama, too. He should absolutely be in there as a player.

Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 11:47:35 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both Bonds and Clemens admit years after they retired that they used?

I very well believe Canseco and definitely think Pudge juiced, but I think there is a difference.
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 01:08:44 AM »

Offline Bucketgetter

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 06:14:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.
Aaron and Mays used illegal amphetamines. Why is that ok and not a bar from the HOF?
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 06:45:03 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.

Canseco said he "suspected" Clemens, but never saw him use. Clemens' trainer was a con man who claimed he was a doctor (he wasn't), who kept needles for years in an attempt to set Clemens up. In a secretly recorded conversation, Clemens repeatedly denied using. He was acquitted of perjury related to PED use.

Literally every other player other than Rodriguez that Canseco said used was later shown to have. Pudge is the lone exception? No way.

Was Clemens clean? I doubt it, despite the lack of rock solid evidence. Same thing with every other cheater who never failed a test. It was part of the game. Letting in some cheaters but not others makes no sense.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 07:10:51 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 08:21:50 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.
Aaron and Mays used illegal amphetamines. Why is that ok and not a bar from the HOF?
Proof?

also, what is the impact of taking amphetamines in terms of improving baseball performance?

I'm genuinely asking because this is the first I've heard of it.

Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 08:25:31 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.

Canseco said he "suspected" Clemens, but never saw him use. Clemens' trainer was a con man who claimed he was a doctor (he wasn't), who kept needles for years in an attempt to set Clemens up. In a secretly recorded conversation, Clemens repeatedly denied using. He was acquitted of perjury related to PED use.

Literally every other player other than Rodriguez that Canseco said used was later shown to have. Pudge is the lone exception? No way.

Was Clemens clean? I doubt it, despite the lack of rock solid evidence. Same thing with every other cheater who never failed a test. It was part of the game. Letting in some cheaters but not others makes no sense.
the proper response is to keep them all out of the Hall.  No place for those that made a mockery of the game and it's records.  No other sport points to its players' accomplishments with as much pride as baseball. 

Every player that juiced up should be kept out of the Hall.  Every player that gambled on baseball or threw a game should be kept out of the Hall.  What message does that send to players that they can pull that garbage and still be 'honored' for their 'contributions' to the game if they're allowed in the Hall?

Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 08:29:22 AM »

Offline Redz

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Bonds' biggest crime was being a butthole.  He came across as petty and envious of the limelight Sosa & McGwire's HR chase had cast upon their gargantuan heads.




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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 08:37:45 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.

Canseco said he "suspected" Clemens, but never saw him use. Clemens' trainer was a con man who claimed he was a doctor (he wasn't), who kept needles for years in an attempt to set Clemens up. In a secretly recorded conversation, Clemens repeatedly denied using. He was acquitted of perjury related to PED use.

Literally every other player other than Rodriguez that Canseco said used was later shown to have. Pudge is the lone exception? No way.

Was Clemens clean? I doubt it, despite the lack of rock solid evidence. Same thing with every other cheater who never failed a test. It was part of the game. Letting in some cheaters but not others makes no sense.
the proper response is to keep them all out of the Hall.  No place for those that made a mockery of the game and it's records.  No other sport points to its players' accomplishments with as much pride as baseball. 

Every player that juiced up should be kept out of the Hall.  Every player that gambled on baseball or threw a game should be kept out of the Hall.  What message does that send to players that they can pull that garbage and still be 'honored' for their 'contributions' to the game if they're allowed in the Hall?
No the proper response is to let them all in, just like they do in every other sport and just like baseball has done with all the amphetamine users, spit ball pitchers, pine tar users, etc. 
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Re: 10 years ago a new HR King was crowned
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 08:55:15 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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If Ivan Rodriguez made it, there's absolutely zero reason to keep Bonds and Clemens out. Those guys are "Pantheon" guys, even before steroids.
Please prove that Pudge used steroids or any PEDs and get back to me. Thanks

Please prove Clemens or any of the other guys who never failed a drug test did.

Canseco said he injected Pudge and was never sued for defamation.
Bonds literally admitted to using steroids, and just said that he didnít know they were PEDs at the time when he took them.

Clemens was also accused by Canseco of using steroids, as well as his personal trainer under oath. Investigators also found cotton swabs and needles with steroid residue and Clemens DNA in his personal trainerís office.

Pudge was only accused by Canseco in his book. Thatís the only ďevidence" against him. I could write a book saying you used steroids. Does that make it true? There is way more actual evidence against Clemens. And it is simply a fact that Bonds used steroids. He admitted to it.

Canseco said he "suspected" Clemens, but never saw him use. Clemens' trainer was a con man who claimed he was a doctor (he wasn't), who kept needles for years in an attempt to set Clemens up. In a secretly recorded conversation, Clemens repeatedly denied using. He was acquitted of perjury related to PED use.

Literally every other player other than Rodriguez that Canseco said used was later shown to have. Pudge is the lone exception? No way.

Was Clemens clean? I doubt it, despite the lack of rock solid evidence. Same thing with every other cheater who never failed a test. It was part of the game. Letting in some cheaters but not others makes no sense.
the proper response is to keep them all out of the Hall.  No place for those that made a mockery of the game and it's records.  No other sport points to its players' accomplishments with as much pride as baseball. 

Every player that juiced up should be kept out of the Hall.  Every player that gambled on baseball or threw a game should be kept out of the Hall.  What message does that send to players that they can pull that garbage and still be 'honored' for their 'contributions' to the game if they're allowed in the Hall?
No the proper response is to let them all in, just like they do in every other sport and just like baseball has done with all the amphetamine users, spit ball pitchers, pine tar users, etc. 
again, where's the proof of amphetamine use and what is the effect it has when playing baseball? 

there's a big difference between people who bent the rules concerning equipment (pine tar?  really?  like that made much of a difference.  doesn't make you hit the ball better or harder or farther - just improves grip and having it too far up the handle as Brett did in that one famous incident doesn't do a [dang] thing) and those that did something unnatural to themselves physically.