Author Topic: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year  (Read 2441 times)

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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 09:04:44 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Ball should win it for a number of reasons: playing style, team should improve, Laker bias, and Fultz/Simmons will split vote.
I've seen a couple of people say this but I don't think I agree. I can see MVP candidates on teh same team splitting votes because the MVP conversation is usually so centered around how much a player helps his team win. ROY tends to be a much more individualistic award and go to teams were contributions to winning aren't important because the teams don't win much.

I expect Philly will be below .500 as Fultz and Simmons will both have a shot at ROY.

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 09:07:44 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Ball is so overrated.
Yup. Gives me a headache seeing all the love he gets while overlooking the massive flaws in his game.
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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 09:49:25 PM »

Offline moiso

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Ball will get bigger and stronger and improve on his defense.  I also agree with Nick that he probably end up the best player in this draft, which is more important than ROY.  Not sure how he is overrated.  He's not Kendall Marshall and he doesn't remind me much of Jason Kidd.  He appears to have the special feel for the game that Bird and Magic had.  It will be interesting to see what he becomes.

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 09:56:42 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Ball will get bigger and stronger and improve on his defense.  I also agree with Nick that he probably end up the best player in this draft, which is more important than ROY.  Not sure how he is overrated.  He's not Kendall Marshall and he doesn't remind me much of Jason Kidd.  He appears to have the special feel for the game that Bird and Magic had.  It will be interesting to see what he becomes.
THAT'S why he's overrated, ha!

he might end up being great

but if he's being compared to bird and magic before playing an actual game then he's currently being overrated IMO

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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 10:02:39 PM »

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Ball should win it for a number of reasons: playing style, team should improve, Laker bias, and Fultz/Simmons will split vote.
I've seen a couple of people say this but I don't think I agree. I can see MVP candidates on teh same team splitting votes because the MVP conversation is usually so centered around how much a player helps his team win. ROY tends to be a much more individualistic award and go to teams were contributions to winning aren't important because the teams don't win much.

I expect Philly will be below .500 as Fultz and Simmons will both have a shot at ROY.
ask Embiid and Saric how it went this year
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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 10:57:28 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Ball should win it for a number of reasons: playing style, team should improve, Laker bias, and Fultz/Simmons will split vote.
I've seen a couple of people say this but I don't think I agree. I can see MVP candidates on teh same team splitting votes because the MVP conversation is usually so centered around how much a player helps his team win. ROY tends to be a much more individualistic award and go to teams were contributions to winning aren't important because the teams don't win much.

I expect Philly will be below .500 as Fultz and Simmons will both have a shot at ROY.
ask Embiid and Saric how it went this year
Embiid didn't win ROY because the majority of voters didn't think he played in enough games not because he split the vote with Saric.  If Embiid had played in 10 more games he would have won easily. 

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 11:05:22 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Ball will get bigger and stronger and improve on his defense.  I also agree with Nick that he probably end up the best player in this draft, which is more important than ROY.  Not sure how he is overrated.  He's not Kendall Marshall and he doesn't remind me much of Jason Kidd.  He appears to have the special feel for the game that Bird and Magic had.  It will be interesting to see what he becomes.
THAT'S why he's overrated, ha!

he might end up being great

but if he's being compared to bird and magic before playing an actual game then he's currently being overrated IMO
Exactly. People are already acting as if he's the greatest playmaker in the league, and he hasn't even played a regular season game.

His inability to create his own shot will hinder his game massively IMO, as will his porous defence. Comparisons to Bird and Magic are pretty ridiculous.
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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 11:50:44 PM »

Offline moiso

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Ball will get bigger and stronger and improve on his defense.  I also agree with Nick that he probably end up the best player in this draft, which is more important than ROY.  Not sure how he is overrated.  He's not Kendall Marshall and he doesn't remind me much of Jason Kidd.  He appears to have the special feel for the game that Bird and Magic had.  It will be interesting to see what he becomes.
THAT'S why he's overrated, ha!

he might end up being great

but if he's being compared to bird and magic before playing an actual game then he's currently being overrated IMO
Exactly. People are already acting as if he's the greatest playmaker in the league, and he hasn't even played a regular season game.

His inability to create his own shot will hinder his game massively IMO, as will his porous defence. Comparisons to Bird and Magic are pretty ridiculous.
Just saying his feel for the game is at a ridiculous hall of fame level.  Maybe he won't be able to guard a chair.  Maybe he won't be a good shooter.  But he understands the game and sees the court amazingly well.

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 12:11:10 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Ball will get bigger and stronger and improve on his defense.  I also agree with Nick that he probably end up the best player in this draft, which is more important than ROY.  Not sure how he is overrated.  He's not Kendall Marshall and he doesn't remind me much of Jason Kidd.  He appears to have the special feel for the game that Bird and Magic had.  It will be interesting to see what he becomes.
THAT'S why he's overrated, ha!

he might end up being great

but if he's being compared to bird and magic before playing an actual game then he's currently being overrated IMO
Exactly. People are already acting as if he's the greatest playmaker in the league, and he hasn't even played a regular season game.

His inability to create his own shot will hinder his game massively IMO, as will his porous defence. Comparisons to Bird and Magic are pretty ridiculous.
Just saying his feel for the game is at a ridiculous hall of fame level.  Maybe he won't be able to guard a chair.  Maybe he won't be a good shooter.  But he understands the game and sees the court amazingly well.
Rondo understands the game and sees the court amazingly well but it doesn't make him Bird or Magic.  I expect Ball to struggle once teams recognize and start exploiting his weaknesses. 

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2017, 09:37:27 AM »

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Ball should win it for a number of reasons: playing style, team should improve, Laker bias, and Fultz/Simmons will split vote.
I've seen a couple of people say this but I don't think I agree. I can see MVP candidates on teh same team splitting votes because the MVP conversation is usually so centered around how much a player helps his team win. ROY tends to be a much more individualistic award and go to teams were contributions to winning aren't important because the teams don't win much.

I expect Philly will be below .500 as Fultz and Simmons will both have a shot at ROY.
ask Embiid and Saric how it went this year
Embiid didn't win ROY because the majority of voters didn't think he played in enough games not because he split the vote with Saric.  If Embiid had played in 10 more games he would have won easily.
That doesn't explain Saric though, who had better stats with a similar role as Brogdon.  People didn't vote for Saric, in part, because Embiid was on his team and was better than him. 
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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2017, 10:21:31 AM »

Offline Jon

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It is what it is.  We should be happy that the Celtics are really too good of a team for any rookie outside of a transcendent talent (like a Bird or Duncan) to ever win Rookie of the Year. 

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2017, 11:06:27 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Ball should win it for a number of reasons: playing style, team should improve, Laker bias, and Fultz/Simmons will split vote.
I've seen a couple of people say this but I don't think I agree. I can see MVP candidates on teh same team splitting votes because the MVP conversation is usually so centered around how much a player helps his team win. ROY tends to be a much more individualistic award and go to teams were contributions to winning aren't important because the teams don't win much.

I expect Philly will be below .500 as Fultz and Simmons will both have a shot at ROY.
ask Embiid and Saric how it went this year
Embiid didn't win ROY because the majority of voters didn't think he played in enough games not because he split the vote with Saric.  If Embiid had played in 10 more games he would have won easily.

Yeah i agree with this. If Embiid played 10-20 more games he would have won ROY year in a landslide. When Saric was playing better the 76ers were really trailing off (not surprising given they were missing Embid). So the voters gave Brodgen the win for coming in and being the starting point guard with ok numbers for a team that made the playoffs. The big takeaways from last year were the rookie class was pretty awful year 1 and that you won't ROY playing in 31 games. I don't think "splitting the vote" was the big story either. 

Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 11:40:11 AM »

Offline mef730

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another year where 76ers will have two rookies competing for ROY since usually all the rookies they draft gets injured

True. But doesn't that mean that Fultz becomes eligible for ROY next year? ;)

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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 12:16:23 PM »

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Embiid and Saric combined had more points than Brogdon did (you obviously can't just combine them as voters likely had both of them of their lists).  Brogdon did have the most 1st place votes, so voters obviously liked him better overall, but I do wonder if there was a rule that made Embiid ineligible, how the voting might have gone between Brogdon and Saric overall. 
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Re: ESPN Panel predicts rookie of the year
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 12:26:41 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Embiid and Saric combined had more points than Brogdon did (you obviously can't just combine them as voters likely had both of them of their lists).  Brogdon did have the most 1st place votes, so voters obviously liked him better overall, but I do wonder if there was a rule that made Embiid ineligible, how the voting might have gone between Brogdon and Saric overall.

I do actually think there should be a rule of minimum eligibility for these awards like they have with statistics in a lot of sports. It is kind of insulting to the other players that are playing 50 more games over the course of 4 months. I think if Brodgon and Saric were similar at stats overall for the whole year the award was going to go to Brodgon for two reasons. One, with the selection of Westbrook over Harden being a notable exception, the people that vote for these things seem to place a huge intangible award on players playing for better teams and contribute to the nebulous concept of "winning basketball." I do think this was a significant factor that the Bucks still made the playoffs despite missing Parker and Middletown (not to mention Delladova that allowed Brodgen to get in the starting lineup). Two, and this is maybe more of a conspiracy theory, but 76ers fans believe that journalists, sportswriters and some involved in the NBA are against acknowledging some good things from the process until they are absolutely forced to because they believe "the process" was bad for the NBA and don't want to reward it in any shape or form. I have no idea whether there is truth to that at all, but I could see a few of these old timey guys saying "well Brogden and Saric are a wash but lets give it to Brodgen in a tiebreaker cause that process really rubbed me the wrong way."