Revisiting the trade: C's trade Deyonte Davis for a future 1st from Memphis

[SCBirdman]

Skal was only taken 3 spots ahead of him. I thought DA did a pretty horrible job selecting Yabu at #16 and adding that to the trade was really bad. The only thing he did well was draft Jaylen, but he could have tried to trade down or something for the teams that were trying to get Dunn.

DA was preserving cap space to sign a Max FA. That's why he traded Davis rights for a future 1st. He got Horford. I would rather have him than Davis, but if Celtics had cap space I really wanted Davis as well, and would have taken him at 16 or 23.

[gouki88]

If per36 was actually a good measure of ones ability, Thomas Robinson would actually be the 13 and 13 guy his per36 indicates by now, rather than being a career 5 and 5 guy off the bench.

[BostonClamCrowdah]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks

The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

When you average as little minutes as Davis did last year, per 36 min stats rarely translate

Really?  Is it actually rare?  Do you have any actual analysis backing that up or are you just repeating what you've heard other people say?

Because if you look at Aron Baynes who the Celtics are paying 4.5 million for this year his per 36 numbers are pretty much identical to his rookie year back in 2012 per when he averaged 8.6 minutes per game over 16 games.

Would you rather have Baynes for 1 year for 4.5 million or Davis for 4 years for a million a year?

Davis stinks get over it

[IDreamCeltics]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks

The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

He averaged 6.5mpg, how can you possibly keep a straight face while multiplying that out to a per 36 number? That's just ridiculous.

It's like me saying DeAndre Liggins should be picked up because per 36 he averaged 72pts and 36reb in 2013-14. It's irrelevant

I mean, no it's not like that... at all... DeAndre Liggins played 1 minute of 1 game in 2013-14.

Ironically, it IS much more like taking DeAndre Liggins per 36 numbers from the 2012 season where he played 290 minutes in an NBA season and extrapolating them.

You'll notice that they're INCREDIBLY similar to his per 36 numbers from 2016 when he played 770 minutes total that season.
                             
       Per 36 Stats         Pts      Rebs   Ast     Stl    Blk      To       MP
Liggins 2011 season    10.3     4.7     1.6    1.9     0        3       115 
Liggins 2012 season     7.2      6.6     1.9    2.2    0.4    1.7      290
Liggins 2016 season      7         5       2.5    2.2    0.6    1.9      777

For the record Deyonta Davis played 238 minutes last season. 

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

[gouki88]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks

The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

He averaged 6.5mpg, how can you possibly keep a straight face while multiplying that out to a per 36 number? That's just ridiculous.

It's like me saying DeAndre Liggins should be picked up because per 36 he averaged 72pts and 36reb in 2013-14. It's irrelevant

I mean, no it's not like that... at all... DeAndre Liggins played 1 minute of 1 game in 2013-14.

Ironically, it IS much more like taking DeAndre Liggins per 36 numbers from the 2012 season where he played 290 minutes in an NBA season and extrapolating them.

You'll notice that they're INCREDIBLY similar to his per 36 numbers from 2016 when he played 770 minutes total that season.
                             
       Per 36 Stats         Pts      Rebs   Ast     Stl    Blk      To       MP
Liggins 2011 season    10.3     4.7     1.6    1.9     0        3       115 
Liggins 2012 season     7.2      6.6     1.9    2.2    0.4    1.7      290
Liggins 2016 season      7         5       2.5    2.2    0.6    1.9      777

For the record Deyonta Davis played 238 minutes last season. 

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Is your point that Davis might one day be a mediocre bench big man?

He's not a good player. He's not even an average player. What are you trying to say? He wouldn't get minutes on this team.

[Granath]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks

The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

He averaged 6.5mpg, how can you possibly keep a straight face while multiplying that out to a per 36 number? That's just ridiculous.

It's like me saying DeAndre Liggins should be picked up because per 36 he averaged 72pts and 36reb in 2013-14. It's irrelevant

I mean, no it's not like that... at all... DeAndre Liggins played 1 minute of 1 game in 2013-14.

Ironically, it IS much more like taking DeAndre Liggins per 36 numbers from the 2012 season where he played 290 minutes in an NBA season and extrapolating them.

You'll notice that they're INCREDIBLY similar to his per 36 numbers from 2016 when he played 770 minutes total that season.
                             
       Per 36 Stats         Pts      Rebs   Ast     Stl    Blk      To       MP
Liggins 2011 season    10.3     4.7     1.6    1.9     0        3       115 
Liggins 2012 season     7.2      6.6     1.9    2.2    0.4    1.7      290
Liggins 2016 season      7         5       2.5    2.2    0.6    1.9      777

For the record Deyonta Davis played 238 minutes last season. 

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Prove what point? There's not a rational soul out there that would agree that a tiny-minutes, garbage-time player's stats would hold up on a Per 36 basis. Or do you think that Sean Long for Philly would average 23/13 since he played about the same number of minutes as Davis (234)? For cryin' out loud, Anthony Bennett averaged better numbers in similar minutes last year.

Davis' 8.8 ppg/36 ranks 431st in the league last year. FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIRST. That's 11th percentile. And you think this is some sort of remarkably wonderful number?

Stop doubling down on the stupidity. You read a scouting report once that said he was supposed to be good coming out of college. Big deal. Davis may or (more likely) may not be any kind of contributor. He's proven absolutely nothing in the NBA and he wouldn't have any kind of expected role on this team this year.

[KGs Knee]

Who cares about Davis, he's a nobody.

Now Rade, that was mistake. Never should have traded him. Ainge gonna regret that.

Pretty much everything Mega Leks (now Mega Bemax) touches turns to gold lately.

[green_bballers13]

The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 

They could. But that's not Davis so it's good we're not putting him in that position.

And thanks for the most idiotic projection of PER 36 so far this year.  And it would be hard to average 9/9 per 36 (giggle!) if he fouled out every single game (6.1 PF per 36).

Agree with this. I watched his draft videos and wasn't impressed. Definitely not a guy that excites me all that much, though he didn't look bad last year. Basically he's the next tall guy that's not that bad.

[byennie]

Leave it to someone on here to complain about trading a 2nd rounder who accomplished nothing as a rookie, for a probable future 1st rounder. The horror.

[IDreamCeltics]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks


The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

He averaged 6.5mpg, how can you possibly keep a straight face while multiplying that out to a per 36 number? That's just ridiculous.

It's like me saying DeAndre Liggins should be picked up because per 36 he averaged 72pts and 36reb in 2013-14. It's irrelevant

I mean, no it's not like that... at all... DeAndre Liggins played 1 minute of 1 game in 2013-14.

Ironically, it IS much more like taking DeAndre Liggins per 36 numbers from the 2012 season where he played 290 minutes in an NBA season and extrapolating them.

You'll notice that they're INCREDIBLY similar to his per 36 numbers from 2016 when he played 770 minutes total that season.
                             
       Per 36 Stats         Pts      Rebs   Ast     Stl    Blk      To       MP
Liggins 2011 season    10.3     4.7     1.6    1.9     0        3       115 
Liggins 2012 season     7.2      6.6     1.9    2.2    0.4    1.7      290
Liggins 2016 season      7         5       2.5    2.2    0.6    1.9      777

For the record Deyonta Davis played 238 minutes last season. 

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Prove what point? There's not a rational soul out there that would agree that a tiny-minutes, garbage-time player's stats would hold up on a Per 36 basis. Or do you think that Sean Long for Philly would average 23/13 since he played about the same number of minutes as Davis (234)? For cryin' out loud, Anthony Bennett averaged better numbers in similar minutes last year.

Davis' 8.8 ppg/36 ranks 431st in the league last year. FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIRST. That's 11th percentile. And you think this is some sort of remarkably wonderful number?

Stop doubling down on the stupidity. You read a scouting report once that said he was supposed to be good coming out of college. Big deal. Davis may or (more likely) may not be any kind of contributor. He's proven absolutely nothing in the NBA and he wouldn't have any kind of expected role on this team this year.

It's really amusing to me that you guys keep picking players whose per 36 numbers on short minutes accurately reflect their per 36 numbers with an expanded role.   

Anthony Bennet's Per 36

                             MP     FG%   3%   Reb    Ast    Blks   Stls     
2013 Season CLE   663   .356   .245   8.4     1.3    0.4    1.6
2014 Season MIN   894   .421   .304   8.7     2.7    0.6    1.6
2016 Season BKN   234   .413   .271  10.6    2.2    0.4    0.9

Wow.  It's obvious for anyone who cares to look at the per 36 that his NBA skill is rebounding.  You'll note that his shot blocking averages don't change with expanded minutes. 

This is actually exactly my point on Davis.  He's 7 feet tall, long and athletic.  His two NBA skills are rebounding and shot blocking which is exactly what the Celtics need. 

I don't care if he actually plays 36 minutes, but if in a year or two he could be contributing 12-20 minutes off the bench for 1 million a year as opposed to say paying Bismack Biyombo 17 million a year, or Serge Ibaka 20 million+ a year to be bench players then that's an EXTREMELY GOOD VALUE. 

And yes,  Sean Long will definitely have a job in the NBA this year,  you probably haven't heard but guys who are 6'9 250lbs, can rebound, and hit .368 from 3% are actually sort of in demand. 

I'm sorry this is all so confusing for you, but hopefully this helps.

[RockinRyA]

It's way too early to tell anything about the pick (and, really, the players selected) right now, but the pick actually looks really good.  As long as the Clippers make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020 (which seems to be their goal given the contracts they gave to Blake and Gallinari this summer), we should get a pick in the late teens or early twenties.  That's a great return for a couple of 2nd rounders.

I wasn't too sure about the trade when we made it (although I was of fan of trading a couple of seconds for a likely late first given that we had to move some picks), but LA's offseason has warmed me too it a lot. They're no longer one of the top teams in the West, but haven't slipped out of the playoffs either.  That's ideal for us.

TP, BJ - this is my take, too. With LAC solidifying themselves as a playoff team (but not necessarily a good one), I would have to think that pick is now worth more than what Danny traded for it at the time. With so many picks in the 2016 draft, asset appreciation was his best case scenario.

With that being said, I would gladly trade the pick for Skal. I was satisfied enough with the Zizic pick, but thought that Skal was the perfect Ainge selection and was a bit upset we didn't take him (top hs recruit who had slipped, but still had great measurements, tools). I suppose the real surprise was Yabusele and we just have to hope for the best with him.

I thought Skal would have been a great gamble of a pick for us, but I understand we needed the cap space and had little room on the roster.

[hwangjini_1]

It was a bad trade at the time but looks worse now.

Davis' Per 36 numbers last year

8.8 pts, 9.1 Rebs, 2.6 Blks


The Celtics could SORELY use a young, athletic rebounder/shotblocker in many of their lineups. 
 

He averaged 6.5mpg, how can you possibly keep a straight face while multiplying that out to a per 36 number? That's just ridiculous.

It's like me saying DeAndre Liggins should be picked up because per 36 he averaged 72pts and 36reb in 2013-14. It's irrelevant

I mean, no it's not like that... at all... DeAndre Liggins played 1 minute of 1 game in 2013-14.

Ironically, it IS much more like taking DeAndre Liggins per 36 numbers from the 2012 season where he played 290 minutes in an NBA season and extrapolating them.

You'll notice that they're INCREDIBLY similar to his per 36 numbers from 2016 when he played 770 minutes total that season.
                             
       Per 36 Stats         Pts      Rebs   Ast     Stl    Blk      To       MP
Liggins 2011 season    10.3     4.7     1.6    1.9     0        3       115 
Liggins 2012 season     7.2      6.6     1.9    2.2    0.4    1.7      290
Liggins 2016 season      7         5       2.5    2.2    0.6    1.9      777

For the record Deyonta Davis played 238 minutes last season. 

Thanks for helping me prove my point.

Prove what point? There's not a rational soul out there that would agree that a tiny-minutes, garbage-time player's stats would hold up on a Per 36 basis. Or do you think that Sean Long for Philly would average 23/13 since he played about the same number of minutes as Davis (234)? For cryin' out loud, Anthony Bennett averaged better numbers in similar minutes last year.

Davis' 8.8 ppg/36 ranks 431st in the league last year. FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY FIRST. That's 11th percentile. And you think this is some sort of remarkably wonderful number?

Stop doubling down on the stupidity. You read a scouting report once that said he was supposed to be good coming out of college. Big deal. Davis may or (more likely) may not be any kind of contributor. He's proven absolutely nothing in the NBA and he wouldn't have any kind of expected role on this team this year.

It's really amusing to me that you guys keep picking players whose per 36 numbers on short minutes accurately reflect their per 36 numbers with an expanded role.   

Anthony Bennet's Per 36

                             MP     FG%   3%   Reb    Ast    Blks   Stls     
2013 Season CLE   663   .356   .245   8.4     1.3    0.4    1.6
2014 Season MIN   894   .421   .304   8.7     2.7    0.6    1.6
2016 Season BKN   234   .413   .271  10.6    2.2    0.4    0.9

Wow.  It's obvious for anyone who cares to look at the per 36 that his NBA skill is rebounding.  You'll note that his shot blocking averages don't change with expanded minutes. 

This is actually exactly my point on Davis.  He's 7 feet tall, long and athletic.  His two NBA skills are rebounding and shot blocking which is exactly what the Celtics need. 

I don't care if he actually plays 36 minutes, but if in a year or two he could be contributing 12-20 minutes off the bench for 1 million a year as opposed to say paying Bismack Biyombo 17 million a year, or Serge Ibaka 20 million+ a year to be bench players then that's an EXTREMELY GOOD VALUE. 

And yes,  Sean Long will definitely have a job in the NBA this year,  you probably haven't heard but guys who are 6'9 250lbs, can rebound, and hit .368 from 3% are actually sort of in demand. 

I'm sorry this is all so confusing for you, but hopefully this helps.

i assume you are trying to convince people here of your insights on deytonte. if so, you may have noticed that your arguments are not working.

indeed, when you trot out relatively obscure players as well as bennett to make your point, you are [dang]ing deytonte with those comparisons.

if you are saying that "yes, we can trust and learn from extrapolating a player's future based upon 36 minutes which rests upon a very small sample size" then you are obligated to not simply cherry pick a player here or there. to convince us all, you need to expand your sample size. perhaps take a random 100 players and crunch those numbers. the point people are raising is that sss are inherently untrustworthy. overcome that.

the argument you have presented so far is simply not convincing. either improve it or move on please.

[kmart12]

Danny's made bigger mistakes; I'm surprised people are wasting energy over the potential of Deyonte Davis.

[Boris Badenov]

I don't care if he actually plays 36 minutes, but if in a year or two he could be contributing 12-20 minutes off the bench for 1 million a year as opposed to say paying Bismack Biyombo 17 million a year, or Serge Ibaka 20 million+ a year to be bench players then that's an EXTREMELY GOOD VALUE. 

Serge Ibaka has started his last 550 games in an NBA uniform. He's a three-time All-NBA Defense 1st teamer.