More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade

[mmmmm]

Haters gonna hate. It's as though the #1 pick just appeared out of thin air, or as if C's fans had to suffer through a 20-win season to earn it. On the contrary: Danny swindled that pick, so he can do what he wants with it.

TP - this has always been my take, as well. Obviously I want these high picks to be super successful, but I have heard on more than a few occasions that Danny's future hinges on this trade or how these picks work out, and I think that is ridiculous. It would be a shame if we end up with the next Anthony Bennett, Darko Milicic, and Adam Morrison, but these picks have all been just a huge bonus to what we are already trying to accomplish.

Sure, our future success depends on these picks, but our current team (now with Hayward!) is certainly exciting to watch.

Definitely.  While some fans and media seem hyper-focused on "The Nets Picks(tm)" as if those alone are the pivot points for the future of the franchise, Danny has in the mean time assembled a roster with THREE ALL STARS without having used _any_ of those picks!

In fact the _only_ pick he's used to acquire any of Thomas, Hayward or Horford was the 2016 Cleveland pick (#28, Skal Labissiere) that he got in the TPE for Zeller-Thornton cap-space trade used to facilitate Lebron's return to Cleveland.  He flipped that pick along with Marcus Thornton for Isaiah.

The draft picks may or may not turn out to be great for the Celtic's future.  But Danny has shown that he can build a conference-contending roster almost purely through trades and signings.   Anything he gets from the picks is gravy on top.

[Sketch5]

Win now & win later are not mutually exclusive. We did moves that improved our short term while worsen our long term.

To got Gordon Hayward, we lost two key players:

Avery Bradley - best perimeter defender and sadly our best rebounder.

KellyO - He was inconsistent and pain in the ass but his presence on the court was huge for his. His ability to play stretch 5 was invaluable.


As of this moment, the PHI trade is bad trade. We essentially gave the up the #1 pick for the #3 pick and some pick that could fall in the range of #2-14. Right now it is too much variance to say we got equal value. 

Us taking Fultz gives us long term pg security. For some there are concerns with maxing IT2. Is his game going to age well? Will the hip injury be an issue long term? Will his defense be a problem when things matters?

With Tatum we lose that security and now committing IT2. Sure Smart/Rozier can make the leap but until they prove otherwise IT2 our guy.

To them and many others Fultz is the best prospect. Sure Tatum can be better in the long run but as now Fultz better.

Their trades talk around PG and Butler was straight speculation. I have no answer for that one.

Very little of this makes any sense.

AB may have been our best perimeter defender, but Smart isn't far behind, and can guard more than just ones and twos. Hayward is no bum on defense either, not as lock down, but maybe a better team defender. Plus Hayward gives more to the offense, and rebounds slightly less than AB.

Morris and Baynes are going to be better than KO for this team. KO's inconstancy that you brought up is a huge issue in the playoffs. ONE game he was lights out good,ONE. Morris is more consistent and  he and Baynes a bit tougher, which is what we need playing with Horford.

You say Tatum can be better than Fultz long term, so how did our long term plans get worse? PG's are easy to come by now. Smart has played well at the PG spot when IT has been down, I'm fine with him being the starting PG if you can surround him with Scorers. And Brown and Tatum could be that, and you also could add not one, but two top 5 picks next year, or bundle them up for a better established young player. And there's something about Fultz I don't like, it's like he has no heart. I could be wrong, but I see very little from him in any video, but with Tatum he's put his team on his back in a big game and carried them. And even Stevens was happy how he played D which was a knock on him and Fultz coming in. So the kid has worked on what he was weak at already.

I mean we are in a very good position, better than most. Good enough to compete, and in a couple years have 2 to 5 very good prospects for the future.

[Erik]

It's not that the Fultz trade was bad. It's just that they drafted the wrong player. Had they taken Josh Jackson, it would have been a steal. With that kind of athleticism, you can't go wrong. He's just a freak of nature. You teach him how to shoot and how to be winner and he's your star for 15 years.

Jayson Tatum will be a bust in the NBA. He's too slow to take NBA elite defenders off the dribble and he's too weak to post up anyone of significance. He gets Carmelo Anthony comparisons. Anthony has him outweighed by 35 pounds. What 6'8" forwards do you think Tatum at 205 is going to push around? I know that he's young and has a lot of time to fill out, but it's not exactly easy to put on 35 pounds of muscle, and you don't get that much time in the NBA to prove yourself. If you are average for 3-4 years in the NBA, you lose your confidence and teams will begin to pass you around to the next schmuck who wants to believe that Anthony Bennett has the potential of a #1 pick.

Everything you saw in Summer League is the product of him beating up other slow, wimpy college players and D-league players. Let's see him take Kahwi, LeBron, Butler off the dribble. Because if he plans on being anything close to Carmelo Anthony, he's going to need to be able to beat these guys offensively within the next 2-3 years. You remember that Anthony was a stud his rookie year. By the 4th year, he was already an Allstar. I just don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong. Sorry for the cold water.

[CelticsJG]

Win now & win later are not mutually exclusive. We did moves that improved our short term while worsen our long term.

To got Gordon Hayward, we lost two key players:

Avery Bradley - best perimeter defender and sadly our best rebounder.

KellyO - He was inconsistent and pain in the ass but his presence on the court was huge for his. His ability to play stretch 5 was invaluable.


As of this moment, the PHI trade is bad trade. We essentially gave the up the #1 pick for the #3 pick and some pick that could fall in the range of #2-14. Right now it is too much variance to say we got equal value. 

Us taking Fultz gives us long term pg security. For some there are concerns with maxing IT2. Is his game going to age well? Will the hip injury be an issue long term? Will his defense be a problem when things matters?

With Tatum we lose that security and now committing IT2. Sure Smart/Rozier can make the leap but until they prove otherwise IT2 our guy.

To them and many others Fultz is the best prospect. Sure Tatum can be better in the long run but as now Fultz better.

Their trades talk around PG and Butler was straight speculation. I have no answer for that one.

I don't know how you can cite the loss of KO but not talk about how we added players like Morris (who is superior to KO) and Baynes. That doesn't make sense.

You're also assuming that we would've picked Fultz at #1, which DA has basically said we would not have done. Tatum was our guy all along. You also say that Fultz is currently better, which is based on... What exactly? Summer League?

We got better in the short term AND the long term. We got the guy we wanted in the draft, we got another potential top 5 pick, and we got the best free agent available. That's a win on every front.

Bayne is skills redundant with Zizic. One of the reason why they were harping on us about not signing a athletic bigs as it would of gave us a different look. We don't know how Marcus Morris fits in. Fultz is better because he have less holes in his game right now.
 
The consensus was Fultz was the #1 pick. So Tatum being our guy only mattered to us.

Short term we got worse because AB was important to hiding IT2 and covering guards. As now we don't have anyone who can guard 1/2. Long term we are committed to IT2, who have a hip injury that may or may not linger, without a future PG. Another downside is the chance of losing Smart and paying the tax when we are not even contenders. 

Almost all of the analysts had Fultz as the clear #1 prospect.  Clearly Duncan and Leroux fall into this camp.  They also don't think Tatum was the best prospect available at #3.

I wonder if Summer League changed any minds, I doubt it.   But to me, it proved that Ainge was right.   Tatum wore down but he was efficient and showed true killer instinct. 

To got Gordon Hayward, we lost two key players:

Avery Bradley - best perimeter defender and sadly our best rebounder.

KellyO - He was inconsistent and pain in the ass but his presence on the court was huge for his. His ability to play stretch 5 was invaluable.

Gordon is better than AB.  KO only played well every other game and the other games he was a stinker.   I think Baynes will have more defensive presence.   I think that Theis may surpise but we will miss KO floor spreading.  But folks need to quit acting like we lost an allstar in KO.( I don't consider your statement of that ilk as it is a balanced assessment)

Seriously, these shows are wrong more often than they are right.   Also, there is significant anti-Celtic bias.

Definitely didn't change their minds which is understandable. Hell there were Celtic fans were hating the pick so expectations were quite low on Tatum.

We are going to miss KO more than we think because of his unique skill set. Baynes is just basically Amir replacement so we didn't really gain to much for signing him.

Actually these been high on the Celtics and are very knowledgeable about basketball.. People here probably just don't listen to them or choose to ignore that.

[mctyson]

First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.
They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon

I think the national NBA writers hate 2 things, whether they admit it or not:

1) They hate that Ainge traded the #1 pick to get another future pick.

2) They hate that Ainge has not made a trade with all his picks.

Writers need crap to write about and quite frankly Ainge's last 3 years have been relatively quiet.

[Celtics4ever]

Definitely didn't change their minds which is understandable. Hell there were Celtic fans were hating the pick so expectations were quite low on Tatum.

I did not want Tatum, but I am believer now.   I think he needs to work on his range and his strength without sacrificing any speed and athleticism and he will be a stud.

We are going to miss KO more than we think because of his unique skill set. Baynes is just basically Amir replacement so we didn't really gain to much for signing him

.

I don't think your giving Baynes defense enough credit.   I wager he surprises some.   He was a better defender than Drummond.

Baynes was also the best rim protector the Pistons had among all rotational players. Inside 6′, opponents shot 10.7 percent worse than their season average when he was the primary defender.

https://pistonpowered.com/2017/06/01/detroit-pistons-whats-going-aron-baynes/

The team performs better defensively when he is on the floor. He has the highest net rating on the team (6.0) -- subtracting his defensive rating (99.1) from his offensive rating (105.1). He has the best plus-minus rating of the regulars (2.2).

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2017/03/07/aron-baynes-detroit-pistons/98857180/

KO could kill a team on offense some nights, other nights you could see he did not have it offensively.   He has a unique skillset but one that does not always show up.   He could play tough and play soft.  I never liked guys who have to have that first shot go in to be confident all night and KO was that guy more often than not.

Actually these been high on the Celtics and are very knowledgeable about basketball.. People here probably just don't listen to them or choose to ignore that.

Makes it all the more fun to prove them wrong.