Author Topic: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade  (Read 7558 times)

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Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2017, 05:00:25 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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NOBODY GIVES A RATS BEHIND WHAT THOSE CLOWNS THINK!  8)

Exactly

Who do these guys think they are?

Tatum a dagger clutch shot in game 1

Then Nate replies...uuuhhh duuhhh ...lucky

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2017, 05:20:44 PM »

Offline HomerSapien

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I think it is totally fair for non-Celtics fans to remind us of how risky the trade of the #1 pick was.  While myself, and other Celtics fans have since put on our green-tinted glasses about it after Tatum's impressive Summer League, we did trade a chance at the consensus best player in this year's draft for one of the next tier players + a pick that could be great, or could be mid-late lottery 23 months from now.  I think it is fair to remain skeptical on the return of that trade until proven otherwise.

One thing that does get underplayed with the trade of pick #1 for #3, though, is the extra $2.07M in cap space that it created by lowering the pick slot cap hold on the Celtics books.  That was probably instrumental in making signing Hayward possible, so it deserves to be factored in to the offseason positively given how badly the late season salary cap movement screwed the C's plans.

Also, I don't really agree with Nate and Danny's assessment of the Bradley trade.  I know they favored moving Smart rather than Bradley, but I think Danny made the right decision on that one.  Avery's loss no doubt will hurt, but I think Marcus is even harder to replace and we also have his RFA rights, while Bradley can leave for nothing and is going to command $20M+ per season next summer.  Additionally, if some combination of Jaylen and Terry Rozier improve this summer they should be able to step in and replace some of what Avery brought to the team.

I'd give us a B or B+ on the offseason.

Despite disagreeing with there assessment of our offseason, Dunc'd On is by far my favorite NBA podcast.  I really like the tone and depth that they go into covering the league compared to other NBA media outlets.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2017, 05:36:57 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.

They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon
Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

I did.  If you think the top 3 picks of this years draft were of similar value then it's a no brainer.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2017, 05:44:04 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.

They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon
Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

You know I think I'll go with the opinion of the GM who's won a championship and put together a hell of a rebuild over a random CB poster.

Danny didn't make the deal because he's not "in [his] right mind", he made the deal because he saw little difference between the #1 and #3 prospects and saw a chance to get a potentially very valuable asset (with very little downside unless you think the Kings and Sixers will be playoff teams in 2 years) in exchange for moving down.  Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor
I'm bitter.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 06:18:47 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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That's great actually.  I love disrespect.  That's bulletin board material.  That's stuff coaches will highlight and use to help motivate their teams.  Who wants to bet this won't be right there in the lockerroom so that players can see it each time they walk in?

Would much rather be underdogs than having the mediots pumping our tires.  This Celtics team will be hungry to prove the doubters wrong!  You know that guys like IT4 and Crowder will be amped up for sure!

First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.
They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2017, 06:38:08 PM »

Offline CelticsJG

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I see where they are coming from. Kinda agree.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2017, 06:48:55 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I think it is totally fair for non-Celtics fans to remind us of how risky the trade of the #1 pick was.  While myself, and other Celtics fans have since put on our green-tinted glasses about it after Tatum's impressive Summer League, we did trade a chance at the consensus best player in this year's draft for one of the next tier players + a pick that could be great, or could be mid-late lottery 23 months from now.  I think it is fair to remain skeptical on the return of that trade until proven otherwise.

This. I really liked Tatum before the draft and that hasn't changed, but Fultz was far and away the best prospect in this draft class and we passed. On top of that, we drafted Tatum and then signed a max free agent that plays his position - I know, I know: positionless basketball. Bah humbug. Also, we didn't adequately address rebounding. Baynes should help there, but it's still a weakness.
2021 Houston Rockets
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C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2017, 06:57:07 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.

They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon
Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

You know I think I'll go with the opinion of the GM who's won a championship and put together a hell of a rebuild over a random CB poster.

Danny didn't make the deal because he's not "in [his] right mind", he made the deal because he saw little difference between the #1 and #3 prospects and saw a chance to get a potentially very valuable asset (with very little downside unless you think the Kings and Sixers will be playoff teams in 2 years) in exchange for moving down.  Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor

He's right about that trade though.  Trading down from 1 to 3 without picking up a known asset in the deal on its face was a losing trade.  Mainly because the pick acquired has so much potential to not end up being a lottery pick in two years.   
 

 

 

   

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2017, 07:00:33 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.

They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon
Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

You know I think I'll go with the opinion of the GM who's won a championship and put together a hell of a rebuild over a random CB poster.

Danny didn't make the deal because he's not "in [his] right mind", he made the deal because he saw little difference between the #1 and #3 prospects and saw a chance to get a potentially very valuable asset (with very little downside unless you think the Kings and Sixers will be playoff teams in 2 years) in exchange for moving down.  Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor

He's right about that trade though.  Trading down from 1 to 3 without picking up a known asset in the deal on its face was a losing trade.  Mainly because the pick acquired has so much potential to not end up being a lottery pick in two years.   
 

 

 

 
There's no way the Kings aren't in the lottery in 2019.  So the Kings would have to end up with the #1 pick which is at most a 25% chance and the Sixers would need to be in the playoffs. 

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2017, 07:24:42 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

I did.  If you think the top 3 picks of this years draft were of similar value then it's a no brainer.


I get that the top 3 picks may end up being of similar value, but how can you possibly love this trade? We are talking about the #1 pick. Last time the C's landed the #1 pick was in 1980. Last time we actually used a #1 pick to draft a player was in 1950! C's fans have been waiting 67 years to see their team picking at the top of the draft. I bet the vast majority of posters on celticsblog weren't even alive in 1950.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly sold on Fultz either. It's just that I feel we could have gotten a far better return. That pick was hands down our most valuable asset. In a vacuum, #3 + future protected first is a horrible return for the #1 pick.



You know I think I'll go with the opinion of the GM who's won a championship and put together a hell of a rebuild over a random CB poster.

Danny didn't make the deal because he's not "in [his] right mind", he made the deal because he saw little difference between the #1 and #3 prospects and saw a chance to get a potentially very valuable asset (with very little downside unless you think the Kings and Sixers will be playoff teams in 2 years) in exchange for moving down.
Oh well, the ''in Danny we trust'' unbeatable argument. Danny has won a championship so I guess he is beyond criticism from here to eternity. Sure mate, feel free to believe whatever you want. If that's the case, why not shut down the whole topic as well cause ''in Danny we trust'' so what's the point in criticizing his decisions?

For what it's worth, I never said Danny was not in his right mind when he made the trade. All I said was, I can't see how someone can love this trade.


Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor
Are they? What if the Lakers land #6 next year and the Kings land #7 (or worse) in 2019? How are the protections in our favor in that case?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 07:50:03 PM by Jvalin »

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2017, 07:31:35 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I think it is totally fair for non-Celtics fans to remind us of how risky the trade of the #1 pick was.  While myself, and other Celtics fans have since put on our green-tinted glasses about it after Tatum's impressive Summer League, we did trade a chance at the consensus best player in this year's draft for one of the next tier players + a pick that could be great, or could be mid-late lottery 23 months from now.  I think it is fair to remain skeptical on the return of that trade until proven otherwise.

This. I really liked Tatum before the draft and that hasn't changed, but Fultz was far and away the best prospect in this draft class and we passed. On top of that, we drafted Tatum and then signed a max free agent that plays his position - I know, I know: positionless basketball. Bah humbug. Also, we didn't adequately address rebounding. Baynes should help there, but it's still a weakness.

Danny didn't feel that fultz was the best prospect though. That being said I think Hayward will play shooting guard.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2017, 07:49:09 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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No offense to the OP, but who cares? This is how the sports world works in the age of social media and 24-hour coverage—they have to have something to do, something to talk about, something to focus on, and just going by the anecdotal evidence, most of these guys end up being wrong most of the time about most things. They're like weathermen. I wish there were websites that handed out grades for these people and their crappy powers of prediction.

This. Especially in the dog days of summer when nothing is going on. Might as just tee-off on the Celtics and Ainge, everyone's favorite past-time. If these guys are so smart, why aren't they making milions running an NBA front office??

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2017, 07:49:48 PM »

Offline CelticsJG

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First Pelton, now Nate and Danny pop our balloons.

The Celtics got a C minus offseason grade.  They were disappointed with what Danny did.

They don't love Tatum.
They don't love Bradley trade.

They don't love Baynes.

There are even more stinging remarks...when it rains, it pours.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon
Who in their right mind would love the Sixers trade?

#1 for #3 + one protected lotto pick??

Let's face it, that's terrible value for a #1 pick. Had anyone proposed this trade a couple of months ago, people would believe he is most likely trolling.

As for the Pistons trade, I think it's rather obvious that Bradley is a better player than Marcus Morris (not to mention we gave them a second rounder as well). In a vacuum, Pistons won the trade. Obviously, we had no leverage cause we needed the cap space to sign Hayward, but at the end of the day we should have planned ahead.

You know I think I'll go with the opinion of the GM who's won a championship and put together a hell of a rebuild over a random CB poster.

Danny didn't make the deal because he's not "in [his] right mind", he made the deal because he saw little difference between the #1 and #3 prospects and saw a chance to get a potentially very valuable asset (with very little downside unless you think the Kings and Sixers will be playoff teams in 2 years) in exchange for moving down.  Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor

He's right about that trade though.  Trading down from 1 to 3 without picking up a known asset in the deal on its face was a losing trade.  Mainly because the pick acquired has so much potential to not end up being a lottery pick in two years.   
 

 

 

 
There's no way the Kings aren't in the lottery in 2019.  So the Kings would have to end up with the #1 pick which is at most a 25% chance and the Sixers would need to be in the playoffs.

A lot can happen between now & 2019 so who knows. What we do know is there a lot of variance with the second pick which makes it a bad trade at this moment.

Given there grade was a fair assessment given our win now & win later situation.

Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2017, 08:06:35 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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No worries at all.

Health willing we'll still be playing well into May and quite possibly June 2018.

We could also possibly snatch the Lakers Pick next year (that would be AWESOME). I'll accept that as a repay for Magic's back-breaking hook shot against us in 1987.

Rinse and repeat for next couple of years and perhaps beyond. We've now got a core and a future that is solid.

Once the games start up again ESPN and the experts will jump on the Green Bandwagon and they'd better reserve their seats NOW.


Re: More cold water - Dunc'd On offseason grade
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2017, 09:42:20 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Calling it "one protected lotto pick" ignores the fact that most of the protections (ie 6-30 protection and right to swap) are in our favor
Are they? What if the Lakers land #6 next year and the Kings land #7 (or worse) in 2019? How are the protections in our favor in that case?

Because it gives you another shot at a top pick. It's the same reason that anyone here would (well, should) take a pick with the 7th best lottery odds over a guaranteed #7 pick.  Yes, there's the minuscule chance that it drops to a slightly weaker pick #8, #9, or #10, but that's by far outweighed by the chance that it jumps to the way more valuable #1, #2, or #3 picks.

I mean, of you want to take the stance that the Lakers, Kings, and 76ers are all going to become powerhouses overnight and we'll get an awful pick, be my guest.  But it's far more likely that we end up with a top 5 pick than an awful one.
I'm bitter.