Poll

Bledsoe + Josh Jacskon for Irving

Cavs
23 (42.6%)
Suns
31 (57.4%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Who would win this trade between the Cavs and Suns? For Irving (Rumor)(poll)  (Read 2109 times)

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Offline celticsclay

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I am a bit surprised that people are acting like Bledsoe isn't a significant step down from Irving. I agree that Irving may be a little overrated and perhaps Bledsoe a little underrated cause of defense. That withstanding though Irving has basically been an all-star every single year in the league and Bledsoe has never made one. They are definitely on a slightly different level from each other and of the two Irving is the only one with a truly elite skill (two actually ball handling and finishing at the rim). Is this normal to think a perennial all-star and a guy that has never made one are the same player? I feel like this would be us saying Bradley was as good a player as Derozen the last few years cause Bradley was elite defensively...
Bledsoe is a step down, which is obvious from the way the poll has gone, but I don't think he is as much a step down as you are indicating.  Bledsoe is a better passer, better rebounder, much better defender, gets to the line a lot more, and is generally a more well rounded player than Irving.  Irving is a much better shooter and better individual shot creator, and is a better player, but the Cavs don't really need much of what Irving provides.  They already have one of the best ISO creators ever, they don't need a second one, and could use the more well rounded player that isn't quite as good overall. 

And it isn't like Bledsoe has been a scrub.  He has averaged over 20 ppg in each of the prior two seasons and has been over 6 apg in each of the last three along with nearly 5 rpg (last year).  And because Bledsoe gets to the line a lot, his TS% last year was 56.3 while Irving's was 58% so there isn't a huge drop off there.

Isn't it a little more meaningful that Irving's numbers are coming on one of the best teams in the league while Bledsoe puts up numbers on one of the worst. As you have pointed out before, how much does Bledsoe being a better rebounder matter playing with Thompson, Lebron and Love? I think going from a perrennial all star to an average to slightly above average starter is a death kneel for the Cavs already extremely slim title odds.
I've never bought into the notion that good stats on great teams are always better than good stats on bad teams.  Sure sometimes players just put up numbers because of shots, opportunities, etc., that they get because they are on a bad team, but similarly sometimes players are far more efficient and thus have better stats because of their superior teammates on good teams.  I'd expect, Irving's efficiency to decrease a bit and Bledsoe's efficiency to increase a bit if they swapped teams, just by the nature of the team (Irving is better and a better shooter so he will likely have better offensive stats in both situations, but I'm just saying I wouldn't expect to see Bledsoe tank and Irving to skyrocket). 

And don't get me wrong, the Cavs are better with Irving then they are with Bledsoe and Jackson, but I don't think they are that much better with Irving and they might have a bit more cohesiveness overall (with the better defender, passer, and rebounder that is Bledsoe and the younger defensive oriented wing on the bench).  So yeah, their slim title chances are probably lessened, but they would still be the heavy favorite to come out of the East (Scalabrine was moaning about that this morning, that unless the Cavs just give Irving away for future considerations, that the Cavs will still beat the Celtics because of James).

Yes let us all use Scalabrine moaning as a basis for what will happen.

Probably 50 times over the last year you have tried to use the argument that the Cavs had the best and second best and probably 5th best players against the Celtics in a Series. Now all of a sudden the Celtics will have the second and third best and 5th best with the Cavs having best, 4th and 6th (with a big droppoff to the 7th spots that get into role players like Smart, Thompson, Crowder, Korver, Rose and Morris)

Barring a really unexpected return to form by Rose (he has lost so much athleticism I don't see it happening) the Cavs are not going to be heavy favorites to win east over Boston if they make that trade.
The thing that you never seem to comprehend, is that James is still significantly better than any one else in that series.  And while we can argue in what order to put Hayward, Thomas, and Love, they are all on virtually the same tier of player, and that tier is way below James.  Lebron James has been to 7 straight finals, and 8 overall, for a reason.  He is just that good.  You can say whatever you want about the quality of his teammates, but let's not forget neither Love nor Irving had even been to the playoffs before playing with James (they are both probably better players overall now, and that the fact that Love was a 26/12.5, 2nd Team All NBA player before ever landing in Cleveland isn't lost on me in that statement).

Boston just doesn't have one of those players that you could build a title team around (not counting Brown or Tatum, since they aren't at that level yet, even if they someday might get there).  Those are the players that win you playoff series and ultimately championships.  In a special season, a team without one of those players, can put it all together and win, but those are rare special seasons where a lot of luck happens (even the 04 Pistons had one of the best rebounding and defending big men in league history, along with 3 other all star level players and a lot of depth). 

The Warriors have 2 of those players and two other All NBA level players, which sets them apart from everyone else and makes them a nearly unbeatable team barring injuries.

What you seem to always discount is Lebron's age and players getting worse as they age. Lebron will be 33 early in the season....

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Look at this article http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

"Players peak around 25. Up until they’re around thirty their decline is slow. Once they hit thirty-two though their degradation is very swift."

If Lebron has a significant decline in his skills he is not going to be a separate tier from Hayward for very long..

Offline Moranis

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I am a bit surprised that people are acting like Bledsoe isn't a significant step down from Irving. I agree that Irving may be a little overrated and perhaps Bledsoe a little underrated cause of defense. That withstanding though Irving has basically been an all-star every single year in the league and Bledsoe has never made one. They are definitely on a slightly different level from each other and of the two Irving is the only one with a truly elite skill (two actually ball handling and finishing at the rim). Is this normal to think a perennial all-star and a guy that has never made one are the same player? I feel like this would be us saying Bradley was as good a player as Derozen the last few years cause Bradley was elite defensively...
Bledsoe is a step down, which is obvious from the way the poll has gone, but I don't think he is as much a step down as you are indicating.  Bledsoe is a better passer, better rebounder, much better defender, gets to the line a lot more, and is generally a more well rounded player than Irving.  Irving is a much better shooter and better individual shot creator, and is a better player, but the Cavs don't really need much of what Irving provides.  They already have one of the best ISO creators ever, they don't need a second one, and could use the more well rounded player that isn't quite as good overall. 

And it isn't like Bledsoe has been a scrub.  He has averaged over 20 ppg in each of the prior two seasons and has been over 6 apg in each of the last three along with nearly 5 rpg (last year).  And because Bledsoe gets to the line a lot, his TS% last year was 56.3 while Irving's was 58% so there isn't a huge drop off there.

Isn't it a little more meaningful that Irving's numbers are coming on one of the best teams in the league while Bledsoe puts up numbers on one of the worst. As you have pointed out before, how much does Bledsoe being a better rebounder matter playing with Thompson, Lebron and Love? I think going from a perrennial all star to an average to slightly above average starter is a death kneel for the Cavs already extremely slim title odds.
I've never bought into the notion that good stats on great teams are always better than good stats on bad teams.  Sure sometimes players just put up numbers because of shots, opportunities, etc., that they get because they are on a bad team, but similarly sometimes players are far more efficient and thus have better stats because of their superior teammates on good teams.  I'd expect, Irving's efficiency to decrease a bit and Bledsoe's efficiency to increase a bit if they swapped teams, just by the nature of the team (Irving is better and a better shooter so he will likely have better offensive stats in both situations, but I'm just saying I wouldn't expect to see Bledsoe tank and Irving to skyrocket). 

And don't get me wrong, the Cavs are better with Irving then they are with Bledsoe and Jackson, but I don't think they are that much better with Irving and they might have a bit more cohesiveness overall (with the better defender, passer, and rebounder that is Bledsoe and the younger defensive oriented wing on the bench).  So yeah, their slim title chances are probably lessened, but they would still be the heavy favorite to come out of the East (Scalabrine was moaning about that this morning, that unless the Cavs just give Irving away for future considerations, that the Cavs will still beat the Celtics because of James).

Yes let us all use Scalabrine moaning as a basis for what will happen.

Probably 50 times over the last year you have tried to use the argument that the Cavs had the best and second best and probably 5th best players against the Celtics in a Series. Now all of a sudden the Celtics will have the second and third best and 5th best with the Cavs having best, 4th and 6th (with a big droppoff to the 7th spots that get into role players like Smart, Thompson, Crowder, Korver, Rose and Morris)

Barring a really unexpected return to form by Rose (he has lost so much athleticism I don't see it happening) the Cavs are not going to be heavy favorites to win east over Boston if they make that trade.
The thing that you never seem to comprehend, is that James is still significantly better than any one else in that series.  And while we can argue in what order to put Hayward, Thomas, and Love, they are all on virtually the same tier of player, and that tier is way below James.  Lebron James has been to 7 straight finals, and 8 overall, for a reason.  He is just that good.  You can say whatever you want about the quality of his teammates, but let's not forget neither Love nor Irving had even been to the playoffs before playing with James (they are both probably better players overall now, and that the fact that Love was a 26/12.5, 2nd Team All NBA player before ever landing in Cleveland isn't lost on me in that statement).

Boston just doesn't have one of those players that you could build a title team around (not counting Brown or Tatum, since they aren't at that level yet, even if they someday might get there).  Those are the players that win you playoff series and ultimately championships.  In a special season, a team without one of those players, can put it all together and win, but those are rare special seasons where a lot of luck happens (even the 04 Pistons had one of the best rebounding and defending big men in league history, along with 3 other all star level players and a lot of depth). 

The Warriors have 2 of those players and two other All NBA level players, which sets them apart from everyone else and makes them a nearly unbeatable team barring injuries.

What you seem to always discount is Lebron's age and players getting worse as they age. Lebron will be 33 early in the season....

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Look at this article http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

"Players peak around 25. Up until they’re around thirty their decline is slow. Once they hit thirty-two though their degradation is very swift."

If Lebron has a significant decline in his skills he is not going to be a separate tier from Hayward for very long..
because players rarely go from best in the world to merely average in the span of an off season without an injury.  Take Karl Malone, he won two MVP's one at 33 and one at 35.  Kareem was winning the MVP at 32 and didn't really drop off until well after 35.  Jordan led the league in scoring at the age of 32, 33, and 34, while winning his last 2 MVP's and finishing 2nd the other season.   

At some point James won't be James, but he has shown no sign of that fall you think he is going to take and there is no reason to believe this will be the season unless he gets hurt at some point during it.  I mean he is coming off a season in which he set his career highs in rpg and apg, and had his 3rd best shooting season (by TS%). 
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Offline Birdman

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Bledsoe is very injury prone and Jackson has not played a minute yet..so u don't know what u getting in Jackson

Offline RJ87

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Jackson has not played a minute yet..so u don't know what u getting in Jackson

Same can be said for Jayson Tatum, but that doesn't stop CBers from declaring him the next Paul Pierce.
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Offline celticsclay

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I am a bit surprised that people are acting like Bledsoe isn't a significant step down from Irving. I agree that Irving may be a little overrated and perhaps Bledsoe a little underrated cause of defense. That withstanding though Irving has basically been an all-star every single year in the league and Bledsoe has never made one. They are definitely on a slightly different level from each other and of the two Irving is the only one with a truly elite skill (two actually ball handling and finishing at the rim). Is this normal to think a perennial all-star and a guy that has never made one are the same player? I feel like this would be us saying Bradley was as good a player as Derozen the last few years cause Bradley was elite defensively...
Bledsoe is a step down, which is obvious from the way the poll has gone, but I don't think he is as much a step down as you are indicating.  Bledsoe is a better passer, better rebounder, much better defender, gets to the line a lot more, and is generally a more well rounded player than Irving.  Irving is a much better shooter and better individual shot creator, and is a better player, but the Cavs don't really need much of what Irving provides.  They already have one of the best ISO creators ever, they don't need a second one, and could use the more well rounded player that isn't quite as good overall. 

And it isn't like Bledsoe has been a scrub.  He has averaged over 20 ppg in each of the prior two seasons and has been over 6 apg in each of the last three along with nearly 5 rpg (last year).  And because Bledsoe gets to the line a lot, his TS% last year was 56.3 while Irving's was 58% so there isn't a huge drop off there.

Isn't it a little more meaningful that Irving's numbers are coming on one of the best teams in the league while Bledsoe puts up numbers on one of the worst. As you have pointed out before, how much does Bledsoe being a better rebounder matter playing with Thompson, Lebron and Love? I think going from a perrennial all star to an average to slightly above average starter is a death kneel for the Cavs already extremely slim title odds.
I've never bought into the notion that good stats on great teams are always better than good stats on bad teams.  Sure sometimes players just put up numbers because of shots, opportunities, etc., that they get because they are on a bad team, but similarly sometimes players are far more efficient and thus have better stats because of their superior teammates on good teams.  I'd expect, Irving's efficiency to decrease a bit and Bledsoe's efficiency to increase a bit if they swapped teams, just by the nature of the team (Irving is better and a better shooter so he will likely have better offensive stats in both situations, but I'm just saying I wouldn't expect to see Bledsoe tank and Irving to skyrocket). 

And don't get me wrong, the Cavs are better with Irving then they are with Bledsoe and Jackson, but I don't think they are that much better with Irving and they might have a bit more cohesiveness overall (with the better defender, passer, and rebounder that is Bledsoe and the younger defensive oriented wing on the bench).  So yeah, their slim title chances are probably lessened, but they would still be the heavy favorite to come out of the East (Scalabrine was moaning about that this morning, that unless the Cavs just give Irving away for future considerations, that the Cavs will still beat the Celtics because of James).

Yes let us all use Scalabrine moaning as a basis for what will happen.

Probably 50 times over the last year you have tried to use the argument that the Cavs had the best and second best and probably 5th best players against the Celtics in a Series. Now all of a sudden the Celtics will have the second and third best and 5th best with the Cavs having best, 4th and 6th (with a big droppoff to the 7th spots that get into role players like Smart, Thompson, Crowder, Korver, Rose and Morris)

Barring a really unexpected return to form by Rose (he has lost so much athleticism I don't see it happening) the Cavs are not going to be heavy favorites to win east over Boston if they make that trade.
The thing that you never seem to comprehend, is that James is still significantly better than any one else in that series.  And while we can argue in what order to put Hayward, Thomas, and Love, they are all on virtually the same tier of player, and that tier is way below James.  Lebron James has been to 7 straight finals, and 8 overall, for a reason.  He is just that good.  You can say whatever you want about the quality of his teammates, but let's not forget neither Love nor Irving had even been to the playoffs before playing with James (they are both probably better players overall now, and that the fact that Love was a 26/12.5, 2nd Team All NBA player before ever landing in Cleveland isn't lost on me in that statement).

Boston just doesn't have one of those players that you could build a title team around (not counting Brown or Tatum, since they aren't at that level yet, even if they someday might get there).  Those are the players that win you playoff series and ultimately championships.  In a special season, a team without one of those players, can put it all together and win, but those are rare special seasons where a lot of luck happens (even the 04 Pistons had one of the best rebounding and defending big men in league history, along with 3 other all star level players and a lot of depth). 

The Warriors have 2 of those players and two other All NBA level players, which sets them apart from everyone else and makes them a nearly unbeatable team barring injuries.

What you seem to always discount is Lebron's age and players getting worse as they age. Lebron will be 33 early in the season....

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Look at this article http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

"Players peak around 25. Up until they’re around thirty their decline is slow. Once they hit thirty-two though their degradation is very swift."

If Lebron has a significant decline in his skills he is not going to be a separate tier from Hayward for very long..
because players rarely go from best in the world to merely average in the span of an off season without an injury.  Take Karl Malone, he won two MVP's one at 33 and one at 35.  Kareem was winning the MVP at 32 and didn't really drop off until well after 35.  Jordan led the league in scoring at the age of 32, 33, and 34, while winning his last 2 MVP's and finishing 2nd the other season.   

At some point James won't be James, but he has shown no sign of that fall you think he is going to take and there is no reason to believe this will be the season unless he gets hurt at some point during it.  I mean he is coming off a season in which he set his career highs in rpg and apg, and had his 3rd best shooting season (by TS%).

Lol.. you are certainly his most loyal fan on this board. Also clearly Kareem and Malone relied on athleticism less than Lebron. Coming up with 2 guys over the last 35 years is hardly a compelling argument. There are some players that are tall that don't rely on athleticism as much (kareem, duncan) that have aged quite nicely. Small forwards really have not followed that pattern. Look at Paul Pierce or other recent greats to see that curve.

Offline celticsclay

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I am a bit surprised that people are acting like Bledsoe isn't a significant step down from Irving. I agree that Irving may be a little overrated and perhaps Bledsoe a little underrated cause of defense. That withstanding though Irving has basically been an all-star every single year in the league and Bledsoe has never made one. They are definitely on a slightly different level from each other and of the two Irving is the only one with a truly elite skill (two actually ball handling and finishing at the rim). Is this normal to think a perennial all-star and a guy that has never made one are the same player? I feel like this would be us saying Bradley was as good a player as Derozen the last few years cause Bradley was elite defensively...
Bledsoe is a step down, which is obvious from the way the poll has gone, but I don't think he is as much a step down as you are indicating.  Bledsoe is a better passer, better rebounder, much better defender, gets to the line a lot more, and is generally a more well rounded player than Irving.  Irving is a much better shooter and better individual shot creator, and is a better player, but the Cavs don't really need much of what Irving provides.  They already have one of the best ISO creators ever, they don't need a second one, and could use the more well rounded player that isn't quite as good overall. 

And it isn't like Bledsoe has been a scrub.  He has averaged over 20 ppg in each of the prior two seasons and has been over 6 apg in each of the last three along with nearly 5 rpg (last year).  And because Bledsoe gets to the line a lot, his TS% last year was 56.3 while Irving's was 58% so there isn't a huge drop off there.

Isn't it a little more meaningful that Irving's numbers are coming on one of the best teams in the league while Bledsoe puts up numbers on one of the worst. As you have pointed out before, how much does Bledsoe being a better rebounder matter playing with Thompson, Lebron and Love? I think going from a perrennial all star to an average to slightly above average starter is a death kneel for the Cavs already extremely slim title odds.
I've never bought into the notion that good stats on great teams are always better than good stats on bad teams.  Sure sometimes players just put up numbers because of shots, opportunities, etc., that they get because they are on a bad team, but similarly sometimes players are far more efficient and thus have better stats because of their superior teammates on good teams.  I'd expect, Irving's efficiency to decrease a bit and Bledsoe's efficiency to increase a bit if they swapped teams, just by the nature of the team (Irving is better and a better shooter so he will likely have better offensive stats in both situations, but I'm just saying I wouldn't expect to see Bledsoe tank and Irving to skyrocket). 

And don't get me wrong, the Cavs are better with Irving then they are with Bledsoe and Jackson, but I don't think they are that much better with Irving and they might have a bit more cohesiveness overall (with the better defender, passer, and rebounder that is Bledsoe and the younger defensive oriented wing on the bench).  So yeah, their slim title chances are probably lessened, but they would still be the heavy favorite to come out of the East (Scalabrine was moaning about that this morning, that unless the Cavs just give Irving away for future considerations, that the Cavs will still beat the Celtics because of James).

Yes let us all use Scalabrine moaning as a basis for what will happen.

Probably 50 times over the last year you have tried to use the argument that the Cavs had the best and second best and probably 5th best players against the Celtics in a Series. Now all of a sudden the Celtics will have the second and third best and 5th best with the Cavs having best, 4th and 6th (with a big droppoff to the 7th spots that get into role players like Smart, Thompson, Crowder, Korver, Rose and Morris)

Barring a really unexpected return to form by Rose (he has lost so much athleticism I don't see it happening) the Cavs are not going to be heavy favorites to win east over Boston if they make that trade.
The thing that you never seem to comprehend, is that James is still significantly better than any one else in that series.  And while we can argue in what order to put Hayward, Thomas, and Love, they are all on virtually the same tier of player, and that tier is way below James.  Lebron James has been to 7 straight finals, and 8 overall, for a reason.  He is just that good.  You can say whatever you want about the quality of his teammates, but let's not forget neither Love nor Irving had even been to the playoffs before playing with James (they are both probably better players overall now, and that the fact that Love was a 26/12.5, 2nd Team All NBA player before ever landing in Cleveland isn't lost on me in that statement).

Boston just doesn't have one of those players that you could build a title team around (not counting Brown or Tatum, since they aren't at that level yet, even if they someday might get there).  Those are the players that win you playoff series and ultimately championships.  In a special season, a team without one of those players, can put it all together and win, but those are rare special seasons where a lot of luck happens (even the 04 Pistons had one of the best rebounding and defending big men in league history, along with 3 other all star level players and a lot of depth). 

The Warriors have 2 of those players and two other All NBA level players, which sets them apart from everyone else and makes them a nearly unbeatable team barring injuries.

What you seem to always discount is Lebron's age and players getting worse as they age. Lebron will be 33 early in the season....

http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

Look at this article http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/

"Players peak around 25. Up until they’re around thirty their decline is slow. Once they hit thirty-two though their degradation is very swift."

If Lebron has a significant decline in his skills he is not going to be a separate tier from Hayward for very long..
because players rarely go from best in the world to merely average in the span of an off season without an injury.  Take Karl Malone, he won two MVP's one at 33 and one at 35.  Kareem was winning the MVP at 32 and didn't really drop off until well after 35.  Jordan led the league in scoring at the age of 32, 33, and 34, while winning his last 2 MVP's and finishing 2nd the other season.   

At some point James won't be James, but he has shown no sign of that fall you think he is going to take and there is no reason to believe this will be the season unless he gets hurt at some point during it.  I mean he is coming off a season in which he set his career highs in rpg and apg, and had his 3rd best shooting season (by TS%).

Lol.. you are certainly his most loyal fan on this board. Also clearly Kareem and Malone relied on athleticism less than Lebron. Coming up with 2 guys over the last 35 years is hardly a compelling argument. There are some players that are tall that don't rely on athleticism as much (kareem, duncan) that have aged quite nicely. Small forwards really have not followed that pattern. Look at Paul Pierce or other recent greats to see that curve.

Also TS aside, there were definitely signs of slippage in Lebron's game last year. He is obviously a great player but he certainly inched closer to being an average player on defense than he has at any time aside from his rookie year and his amount of shots getting blocked at the rim has also been increasing. I'll grant you that the decline is clearly not sharp at this point but he is at an age where it does (you also have to remember he has played way more minutes to this point in his career than anyone you are trying to compare him to). Say Lebron is 10% worse this year from turning 33.. how much does that 10% knock him down? Below Durant and Leonard clearly (who many feel have already passed him) perhaps down to the next peg with guys like Davis, Westbrook and Harden) if it is more than that than he is just another all-star...

Offline Moranis

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/
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Offline BitterJim

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

I wonder if they'll need another team (that's high on Bender) to get involved and swap Bender for either a different prospect/pick or a more established player.  I can't see Phoenix agreeing to move Jackson, so it will come down to how mutch Cleveland is willing to budge.
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Offline celticsclay

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

I don't think that is going to get it done. I have heard that scouts were extremely down overall on Bender during summer league and he obviously won't be ready to contribute serious minutes on a playoff team next year either way. Miami is pretty much a lock to make the playoffs after Indiana, Chicago and Atlanta all blew up their teams last offseason (and Miami clearly found something with Dragic, Whiteside, Waiters and Johnson the second half of the year) so you are probably talking about the 16-18th pick in the draft. That is a really poor return for a 25 year old star that has made multiple all-star games and been all NBA 3rd team at a loaded position and has two more years of a reasonable contract.

A team of

Bledsoe
Smith
Lebron
Love
Thompson

with Rose, 37 year old Korver and a bunch of 35 year olds and Bender filling out the bench is really not intimidating at all. 

Offline saltlover

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

I'd love for that deal.  Cavs get worse, Suns get better.  Helps the Celtics get past the Cavs and the Suns get past the Lakers and Nets (and Kings in 2019 if necessary).

If the Cavs can get the Suns to take back Shumpert they should take the deal.

Offline celticsclay

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

I'd love for that deal.  Cavs get worse, Suns get better.  Helps the Celtics get past the Cavs and the Suns get past the Lakers and Nets (and Kings in 2019 if necessary).

If the Cavs can get the Suns to take back Shumpert they should take the deal.

Didn't think about this helping the suns get above the Lakers and Nets. Does this knock the Cavs down to 3rd in the east? A team with two all stars and some really aging role players (even if one is Lebron) is not inspiring a fear. Side note I believe this is the first time Lebron would not be suiting up alongside in their prime allstars since the 2009-2010 season! Kind of hard to believe.

Offline Moranis

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Suns have reportedly offered Bledsoe, Bender, and Miami's 1st (top 7 protected next year and unprotected in 2019) for Irving.  Cavs are holding out for Jackson (instead of Bender).  This is clearly and by far the best reported offer the Cavs have received (Minnesota won't include Wiggins, Denver won't trade Murray and Harris).   

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/08/04/report-suns-willing-to-trade-eric-bledsoe-dragan-bender-first-round-pick-for-kyrie-irving/

I'd love for that deal.  Cavs get worse, Suns get better.  Helps the Celtics get past the Cavs and the Suns get past the Lakers and Nets (and Kings in 2019 if necessary).

If the Cavs can get the Suns to take back Shumpert they should take the deal.
I imagine the Suns and Cavs will eventually get something figured out.  Whether it is the Suns taking on more salary or different or more pieces going back (Warren, Chriss, Ullis for younger players Dudley, Chandler for vets).  There are a lot of variations out there with Irving and Bledsoe being the main components.  Just as an example, if Chriss was swapped for Bender, do you think Cleveland is more accommodating or Phoenix balks at that. 

Or maybe you keep Bender in the deal, but add Warren and Ullis with Shumpert going back to Phoenix.  I actually think the Cavs might do that as it saves them 6 million in salary alone (yet alone the tax savings), they get a quality younger wing for their bench in Warren who can actually help them next year, and a better PG prospect in Ullis then they have in Felder.  They also would still have Bender as a potential trade chip (maybe you swap Bender for Okafor straight up or something like that or find a team that likes the promise of Bender and get a veteran). 

So with that altered trade the Cavs would be (cutting Felder and Tavares)

PG - Bledsoe, Rose, Calderon, Ullis
SG - Smith, Korver
SF - James, Warren, Jefferson, Osman
PF - Love, Green, Bender
C - Thompson, Frye

Not as good as their team is now, but probably not a bad return for a player demanding a trade.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Offline Moranis

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I wonder if Cleveland could flip Bender and the Miami 1st to Detroit for Bradley.  I don't know if Detroit would have any interest in that, but that would be a solid enough return for Bradley if they were interested in moving him.  The Cavs would then essentially trade Irving for Bledsoe and Bradley, which would give them two very solid defensive guards and probably improve their chances in a matchup with the Warriors (though the Warriors would still rightfully be a heavy favorite). 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Offline Eddie20

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I wonder if Cleveland could flip Bender and the Miami 1st to Detroit for Bradley. 

Ainge would've done that if that were on the table. But to answer your question, Cleveland would be insane to make that offer.
Triboy quick hits - Mickey ceiling is a better shot blocking but 6'8 version of Bosh. Mickey is going to be a gem but not likely a future hof. Mickey can't play the 3? Mickey has ability to spin with his right/left hand.  Shoot the 3. Blow by guys, fakes, up and unders, explosive finishes at rim. Hard to contain. You dont get the value of him yet.

Offline Moranis

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I wonder if Cleveland could flip Bender and the Miami 1st to Detroit for Bradley. 

Ainge would've done that if that were on the table. But to answer your question, Cleveland would be insane to make that offer.
Not if they think Bradley could make the difference against Golden State.  Maybe they could even keep Miami's pick (I would start with Bender for Bradley straight up and see what Detroit says).  And Phoenix wouldn't have made that offer for Bradley because Bradley doesn't make sense in Phoenix.  Bradley makes a lot of sense in Cleveland though.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.