Author Topic: Could the Celtics run two five man teams  (Read 3755 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« on: July 27, 2017, 05:00:26 PM »

Offline jaketwice

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1384
  • Tommy Points: 102
Could the Celtics be competitive if they played two full five man line-ups 24 minutes each ? Basically: everyone on, everyone off? If so, they could do things like full court press, and everyone could stay in motion, because all of the players would be resting so much.

My ideas for the "two fives" are below:

Starting 5: IT4, Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Baynes, M. Morris.

(IT4 and Hayward carry the scoring load, and everyone else plays defence).

Second 5: Marc Smart, Tatum, Crowder, Horford, Theis

(Tatum and Horford play a pick and roll game, and everyone else plays defence)*

*I think Tatum is going to be a huge star, you'd have to adjust the line-ups if you didn't believe this.

Why don't teams try this? Everyone off - new five man team takes the floor.



Bench: Yabusele, Rozier, Zizic, Larkin.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 05:03:49 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
They would be much less effective doing hockey lines than utilizing their players with very flexible skills to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves.

They would also like to have one of IT and Hayward on the court most of the time, and those two playing together a good chunk of time also.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 06:17:31 PM »

Offline jaketwice

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1384
  • Tommy Points: 102
They would be much less effective doing hockey lines than utilizing their players with very flexible skills to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves.

They would also like to have one of IT and Hayward on the court most of the time, and those two playing together a good chunk of time also.

But wouldn't opponents have to play THEM, as opposed to the reverse, if it were just fresh-legs fresh-legs fresh-legs for four quarters? How many screens can Steph Curry fight through before he just gets too tired?

With the rise of the super teams, there needs to be some innovation. Maybe hockey lines is the way to go. What would your hockey lines be with the current roster anyway?

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 06:32:13 PM »

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
They would be much less effective doing hockey lines than utilizing their players with very flexible skills to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves.

They would also like to have one of IT and Hayward on the court most of the time, and those two playing together a good chunk of time also.

But wouldn't opponents have to play THEM, as opposed to the reverse, if it were just fresh-legs fresh-legs fresh-legs for four quarters? How many screens can Steph Curry fight through before he just gets too tired?

With the rise of the super teams, there needs to be some innovation. Maybe hockey lines is the way to go. What would your hockey lines be with the current roster anyway?

There's a reason basketball teams don't utilize hockey lines, and it's not typically due to a lack of talent.  And it's the one I just gave you.  And it's why Stevens loves experimenting with lineups all year long.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 06:52:31 PM »

Offline jaketwice

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1384
  • Tommy Points: 102
They would be much less effective doing hockey lines than utilizing their players with very flexible skills to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves.

They would also like to have one of IT and Hayward on the court most of the time, and those two playing together a good chunk of time also.

But wouldn't opponents have to play THEM, as opposed to the reverse, if it were just fresh-legs fresh-legs fresh-legs for four quarters? How many screens can Steph Curry fight through before he just gets too tired?

With the rise of the super teams, there needs to be some innovation. Maybe hockey lines is the way to go. What would your hockey lines be with the current roster anyway?

There's a reason basketball teams don't utilize hockey lines, and it's not typically due to a lack of talent.  And it's the one I just gave you.  And it's why Stevens loves experimenting with lineups all year long.

That's not to say you couldn't be a little flexible. But there's value to playing with the same guys all the time. And there's value to having the starting five on the other team constantly see a new line-up that's playing in a new way.

This team, in particular, with a lot of similarly sized players, could try a strategy like that.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 07:19:55 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Could the Celtics be competitive if they played two full five man line-ups 24 minutes each ? Basically: everyone on, everyone off? If so, they could do things like full court press, and everyone could stay in motion, because all of the players would be resting so much.

My ideas for the "two fives" are below:

Starting 5: IT4, Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Baynes, M. Morris.

(IT4 and Hayward carry the scoring load, and everyone else plays defence).

Second 5: Marc Smart, Tatum, Crowder, Horford, Theis

(Tatum and Horford play a pick and roll game, and everyone else plays defence)*

*I think Tatum is going to be a huge star, you'd have to adjust the line-ups if you didn't believe this.

Why don't teams try this? Everyone off - new five man team takes the floor.



Bench: Yabusele, Rozier, Zizic, Larkin.

Expecting Theis to start might be expecting a bit too much.  He looks pretty mediocre to me and there have been more than a couple of examples of Danny bringing good international players here only to find they struggle to even crack the rotation.

Much more likely that either Morris or Baynes starts at PF.  I'm hoping Baynes, but knowing Danny/Brad and they obsessive love for inefficient undersized players who don't rebound, I'm pretty confident it will be Morris.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 07:28:35 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
I think the danger is the Celtics putting out two mediocre teams for an entire game.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 07:31:47 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
This would minimize coach's influence on game planning during the game. Pass.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 07:33:13 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
This is an awful idea, not only for the Celtics, but for any basketball team ever.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 07:42:32 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4551
  • Tommy Points: 1031
You'll see our best lineup against a given team to close a game.

There are no first/second lines.

Brad likes to sub guys at different times so we may see a bunch of different units depending on the matchups.

Last season he went small a lot out of necessity. This season I think we see the transition to "positionless" basketball, which is essentially a PG and C (Thomas and Horford) along with 3 players who could play 2-3-4.
CELTICS 2024

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 07:47:45 PM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14457
  • Tommy Points: 972
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
They would be much less effective doing hockey lines than utilizing their players with very flexible skills to take advantage of matchups as they present themselves.

They would also like to have one of IT and Hayward on the court most of the time, and those two playing together a good chunk of time also.

But wouldn't opponents have to play THEM, as opposed to the reverse, if it were just fresh-legs fresh-legs fresh-legs for four quarters? How many screens can Steph Curry fight through before he just gets too tired?

With the rise of the super teams, there needs to be some innovation. Maybe hockey lines is the way to go. What would your hockey lines be with the current roster anyway?

There's a reason basketball teams don't utilize hockey lines, and it's not typically due to a lack of talent.  And it's the one I just gave you.  And it's why Stevens loves experimenting with lineups all year long.

That's not to say you couldn't be a little flexible. But there's value to playing with the same guys all the time. And there's value to having the starting five on the other team constantly see a new line-up that's playing in a new way.

This team, in particular, with a lot of similarly sized players, could try a strategy like that.
There's more value is having your better players our there more often.  That outweighs the values you listed, particularly in the game of basketball where elite talent dominates the game.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 05:34:51 AM »

Offline Androslav

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2983
  • Tommy Points: 528
This is the first time that CBS has a roster for his taste and you are suggesting that he should distribute minutes with a commodore 64 algorythm.
I am fine with IT and Al barely hitting 30 mpg.
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 07:20:20 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5572
  • Tommy Points: 699
Could the Celtics be competitive if they played two full five man line-ups 24 minutes each ? Basically: everyone on, everyone off? If so, they could do things like full court press, and everyone could stay in motion, because all of the players would be resting so much.

My ideas for the "two fives" are below:

Starting 5: IT4, Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Baynes, M. Morris.

(IT4 and Hayward carry the scoring load, and everyone else plays defence).

Second 5: Marc Smart, Tatum, Crowder, Horford, Theis

(Tatum and Horford play a pick and roll game, and everyone else plays defence)*

*I think Tatum is going to be a huge star, you'd have to adjust the line-ups if you didn't believe this.

Why don't teams try this? Everyone off - new five man team takes the floor.



Bench: Yabusele, Rozier, Zizic, Larkin.

Expecting Theis to start might be expecting a bit too much.  He looks pretty mediocre to me and there have been more than a couple of examples of Danny bringing good international players here only to find they struggle to even crack the rotation.

Much more likely that either Morris or Baynes starts at PF.  I'm hoping Baynes, but knowing Danny/Brad and they obsessive love for inefficient undersized players who don't rebound, I'm pretty confident it will be Morris.

Is Tristan Thompson undersized? Because Marcus Morris is almost the same size as Tristan Thompson.

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 07:47:44 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Why don't teams try this? Everyone off - new five man team takes the floor.
Because teams generally want to have best players on the floor, which has shown to win games. It's the same reason that teams don't run three different teams even though they can.

Also, if you don't have a small number of guys on your roster that are supremely more talented than the rest of it, you're doing it wrong.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Could the Celtics run two five man teams
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 07:50:37 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
.Expecting Theis to start might be expecting a bit too much.  He looks pretty mediocre to me and there have been more than a couple of examples of Danny bringing good international players here only to find they struggle to even crack the rotation.
It is mind-boggling to me that people expect miracles of Theis, who has been a bench player limited to 20 or fewer minutes per game for the entirety of a reasonably long career... IN EUROPE.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."