Who's Better I.T. or Kyrie Irving? (Added poll)

[Mr October]

Those of us clamoring for Kyrie in BOS should consider CHEMISTRY.

Kyrie - with part of this CLE thing being HIS fault - has a cloud over him right now.

After that Kendrick Perkins trade way back in 2011 this team got a first hand view of what a Chemistry-killing trade can do to a team.

Some would argue - "Well we weren't going to beat MIA anyway."

Some would argue - "Well, we wouldn't have been able to pay Perk anyways."

I hated to see Kendrick Perkins go but that trade worked out for OKC in that they matched up better with LA (and then Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum).

We got Jeff Green. I loved him as a player but we lost toughness and a lot of chemistry in that trade.

The bottom line is that I'd be hesitant to bring in a player that - while immensely talented - has a cloud over him right now for wanting to leave a great team and "Move out on his own."

The Boston Celtics - throughout NBA History - have thrived on CHEMISTRY just as much as talent. Players buying in...players doing their roles....teamwork....no "agendas".

Kyrie has an agenda.

While I love his game and think he's a good kid we need to stay away from him and let him go on to wherever CLE trades him to.

Isaiah Thomas is better - for BOSTON.

TP. I totally Agree. Let's not rock the chemistry boat too hard.

That said, I voted for Irving. If starting a new team, I would pick him. Irving is better, but not that much better. The guy doesn't play nearly as hard as Thomas on a consistent basis.

[green_bballers13]

Rationally, Kyrie has more value around the league. He's younger and signed for longer.

I trust IT to fit into our offense more, though.

I think our offense at this point is the best strategy using our current players, while adopting many of Stevens beliefs (movement, space, quick transition). I have no doubt that Stevens would tinker with his offense to fit his best players styles.

In fact, while IT is great in the pick n roll, I don't think he necessarily fits Stevens beliefs on quick perimeter mvmt. Both IT and Irving prob handle the ball more than in an "ideal" Stevens offense. I don't see Stevens sitting IT b/c he holds the ball more, and I don't think he would sit Irving either.

I see no way that Danny or whoever wears a suit in Cleveland would want to face IT or Irving on the other team. I think Boston might be one of the only teams that Cleveland doesn't want to trade Irving to, which is inconvenient for them, as we prob have the best bundle of assets. Then again, does Lebron really want another player under the age of 20?

[timpiker]

"Who's Better"?  U mean who has the most talent 1 on 1 ?  I think Irving.  "Who's better" for this C's team?  I think IT.  Not sure if Irving would be/is a good teammate.  His latest request makes me think he may not be a very good teammate.

[seancally]

Irving is younger, bigger, and not the second worst defender in the entire league. Let's not forget that while Kyrie is far from a defensive menace, he's young enough to be taught good habits. There's no reason he can't be a plus defender, at least a good system defender. IT - whom I love - cannot be an effective defender given his size. He will limit out team's defensive prowess. There's also his age, his hip, and the fact that if he's even half a step slower this year, that's about it.

IT is a more willing team guy, but let's also not forget he's not shy to call out coaches and teammates when he thinks things should be done differently. He has openly spoken about his desire to get a max. Are these awful things? No. But don't tell me IT is somehow a Duncan-esque team guy.

As far as chemistry goes, this roster has undergone more changes than Bruce Jenner in the last few years. Brad Stevens will make it work. I don't think we are likely to trade IT in a package for Irving, but Kyrie's timeline and talent would mitigate anything lost from IT's departure, in my opinion.

Horford is the culture-maker. Hayward is now the marquee signing. Kyrie would be the dynamic PG and shot maker.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Those of us clamoring for Kyrie in BOS should consider CHEMISTRY.

Kyrie - with part of this CLE thing being HIS fault - has a cloud over him right now.

After that Kendrick Perkins trade way back in 2011 this team got a first hand view of what a Chemistry-killing trade can do to a team.

Some would argue - "Well we weren't going to beat MIA anyway."

Some would argue - "Well, we wouldn't have been able to pay Perk anyways."

I hated to see Kendrick Perkins go but that trade worked out for OKC in that they matched up better with LA (and then Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum).

We got Jeff Green. I loved him as a player but we lost toughness and a lot of chemistry in that trade.

The bottom line is that I'd be hesitant to bring in a player that - while immensely talented - has a cloud over him right now for wanting to leave a great team and "Move out on his own."

The Boston Celtics - throughout NBA History - have thrived on CHEMISTRY just as much as talent. Players buying in...players doing their roles....teamwork....no "agendas".

Kyrie has an agenda.

While I love his game and think he's a good kid we need to stay away from him and let him go on to wherever CLE trades him to.

Isaiah Thomas is better - for BOSTON.

I'm tired of seeing this false narrative of what actually happened. If Shaq (maybe even JO) didn't get hurt we likely beat Miami. They did not beat us when Shaq played and we looked like the team to beat. We didn't miss Perk chemistry wise, we missed a good healthy big, that wasn't Perk at the time. I get it, Perk is a beloved figure but it's more in memory of years prior than what actually happened. Don't tell me about OKC either because they carried him there, his contribution was leadership, important for sure but not as much of an impact as having KD, RW, and Harden! Overrated. (hurt Jae like a jerk too, that was BS).

[Rosco917]

IMO who is better, should read who is most valuable.

On offense they're similar, both are scoring point guards, meaning shooting guards masquerading as PG's. (And in todays NBA that's fine.) Both pass the ball as an after thought, both handle the ball very well. Both are "go to" guys in the 4th quarter, IT with a slight edge. We know what a healthy IT is capable of, Irving not so much considering LeBron mostly runs the team.

On defense, sorry IT fans the little fella needs continual help on the defensive end, he causes the necessity for players to switch from their own defensive assignment to help IT. It's a sometimes confusing, energy drain that manifests itself in the 4th quarter. He is a pathway for the opposition to find a basket. Unfortunately this limitation shows it's head mostly in the playoffs, and can never change.

While Irving is considered a poor defender he has normal size, he has no physical limitation, he can improve his defensive game with work, and study, and coaching. He can some day be a decent defender.
This must all be taken into consideration, when you consider value.

Irving is younger and signed for two years, and thought to be healthy. IT is looking for "the Brinks Truck" shortly, and is showing wear and tear physically.

My heart say IT, my head say Irving.
 

[GreenFaith1819]

Those of us clamoring for Kyrie in BOS should consider CHEMISTRY.

Kyrie - with part of this CLE thing being HIS fault - has a cloud over him right now.

After that Kendrick Perkins trade way back in 2011 this team got a first hand view of what a Chemistry-killing trade can do to a team.

Some would argue - "Well we weren't going to beat MIA anyway."

Some would argue - "Well, we wouldn't have been able to pay Perk anyways."

I hated to see Kendrick Perkins go but that trade worked out for OKC in that they matched up better with LA (and then Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum).

We got Jeff Green. I loved him as a player but we lost toughness and a lot of chemistry in that trade.

The bottom line is that I'd be hesitant to bring in a player that - while immensely talented - has a cloud over him right now for wanting to leave a great team and "Move out on his own."

The Boston Celtics - throughout NBA History - have thrived on CHEMISTRY just as much as talent. Players buying in...players doing their roles....teamwork....no "agendas".

Kyrie has an agenda.

While I love his game and think he's a good kid we need to stay away from him and let him go on to wherever CLE trades him to.

Isaiah Thomas is better - for BOSTON.

I'm tired of seeing this false narrative of what actually happened. If Shaq (maybe even JO) didn't get hurt we likely beat Miami. They did not beat us when Shaq played and we looked like the team to beat. We didn't miss Perk chemistry wise, we missed a good healthy big, that wasn't Perk at the time. I get it, Perk is a beloved figure but it's more in memory of years prior than what actually happened. Don't tell me about OKC either because they carried him there, his contribution was leadership, important for sure but not as much of an impact as having KD, RW, and Harden! Overrated. (hurt Jae like a jerk too, that was BS).

That Shaq Celtics Team was AWESOME.

Loved it.

We couldn't stay healthy, though.

I dreamed of a Celtics-Lakers final in 2011- with Shaq giving it to his OLD team once again - except on the Laker's hated rivals. The rivalry-bitterness between him and Kobe was still rather fresh, too.

Too bad it never happened or that would've been HISTORIC.

It's probably better that that did NOT happen - because the Laker fans are just about as rabid as ours and he probably wouldn't be welcome in LA ever again if that scenario would've happened.

Me on the other hand would've LOVED IT and would've taken the opportunity to rub it in any Laker fans face any chance I got.

"Hey - your beloved Shaq just gave it to you all in GREEN" LOL too bad it never happened..

[chiken Green]

I vote IT.. In my opinion, better Teammate, Equal Scorer.. and Yes he sucks on Defense but dude tries.. Irving has the right Height but doesnt try, (but I guess it doesnt matter since he is taller)  It is also a Leader.. He has the personality and drive suited to make guys follow..  I dont see that In Irving.

And last - I dont understand people bringing up IT's Hip..  Irving is one of the most Often Injured players in the game.. Dude Stays hurt.. Constantly..   His body is fragile as heck... what good is it being 25 when his body is already failing him..

[green_bballers13]

I vote IT.. In my opinion, better Teammate, Equal Scorer.. and Yes he sucks on Defense but dude tries.. Irving has the right Height but doesnt try, (but I guess it doesnt matter since he is taller)  It is also a Leader.. He has the personality and drive suited to make guys follow..  I dont see that In Irving.

And last - I dont understand people bringing up IT's Hip..  Irving is one of the most Often Injured players in the game.. Dude Stays hurt.. Constantly..   His body is fragile as heck... what good is it being 25 when his body is already failing him..

I think you need to see IT play with Lebron before you start comparing them as teammates. It has been noted through sports history that many great athletes are very critical of their teammates. Sometimes this leads to championships, and sometimes this leads to hard feelings and separation.

Re: injuries- I find it tough to sit here behind my computer and tell superior athletes that they need to play through X,Y,Z. While this approach might be good for the short term, I think its a terrible long term strategy.

The reason that you don't see Irving as a leader is b/c Lebron is on his team, and effectively calls the shots in crunch time. Kyrie wants to leave, in part, due to people like you criticizing him for his lack of leadership. He wants to the prove the doubters wrong that he can lead a good team. He's only 25, so this makes sense as he heads into his prime years.

Through 25 years on earth, it would be hard to argue that IT was better than Kyrie is now. For a decent analysis, you have to look at what IT did 3 years ago vs what Kyrie did this past year. The result: Irving is the better player.

And I love IT!

[j804]

Those of us clamoring for Kyrie in BOS should consider CHEMISTRY.

Kyrie - with part of this CLE thing being HIS fault - has a cloud over him right now.

After that Kendrick Perkins trade way back in 2011 this team got a first hand view of what a Chemistry-killing trade can do to a team.

Some would argue - "Well we weren't going to beat MIA anyway."

Some would argue - "Well, we wouldn't have been able to pay Perk anyways."

I hated to see Kendrick Perkins go but that trade worked out for OKC in that they matched up better with LA (and then Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum).

We got Jeff Green. I loved him as a player but we lost toughness and a lot of chemistry in that trade.

The bottom line is that I'd be hesitant to bring in a player that - while immensely talented - has a cloud over him right now for wanting to leave a great team and "Move out on his own."

The Boston Celtics - throughout NBA History - have thrived on CHEMISTRY just as much as talent. Players buying in...players doing their roles....teamwork....no "agendas".

Kyrie has an agenda.

While I love his game and think he's a good kid we need to stay away from him and let him go on to wherever CLE trades him to.

Isaiah Thomas is better - for BOSTON.

I'm tired of seeing this false narrative of what actually happened. If Shaq (maybe even JO) didn't get hurt we likely beat Miami. They did not beat us when Shaq played and we looked like the team to beat. We didn't miss Perk chemistry wise, we missed a good healthy big, that wasn't Perk at the time. I get it, Perk is a beloved figure but it's more in memory of years prior than what actually happened. Don't tell me about OKC either because they carried him there, his contribution was leadership, important for sure but not as much of an impact as having KD, RW, and Harden! Overrated. (hurt Jae like a jerk too, that was BS).

That Shaq Celtics Team was AWESOME.

Loved it.

We couldn't stay healthy, though.

I dreamed of a Celtics-Lakers final in 2011- with Shaq giving it to his OLD team once again - except on the Laker's hated rivals. The rivalry-bitterness between him and Kobe was still rather fresh, too.

Too bad it never happened or that would've been HISTORIC.

It's probably better that that did NOT happen - because the Laker fans are just about as rabid as ours and he probably wouldn't be welcome in LA ever again if that scenario would've happened.

Me on the other hand would've LOVED IT and would've taken the opportunity to rub it in any Laker fans face any chance I got.

"Hey - your beloved Shaq just gave it to you all in GREEN" LOL too bad it never happened..

didnt that team start out on fire too? I know when Shaq was on the floor they were dominant

[chiken Green]

I vote IT.. In my opinion, better Teammate, Equal Scorer.. and Yes he sucks on Defense but dude tries.. Irving has the right Height but doesnt try, (but I guess it doesnt matter since he is taller)  It is also a Leader.. He has the personality and drive suited to make guys follow..  I dont see that In Irving.

And last - I dont understand people bringing up IT's Hip..  Irving is one of the most Often Injured players in the game.. Dude Stays hurt.. Constantly..   His body is fragile as heck... what good is it being 25 when his body is already failing him..

I think you need to see IT play with Lebron before you start comparing them as teammates. It has been noted through sports history that many great athletes are very critical of their teammates. Sometimes this leads to championships, and sometimes this leads to hard feelings and separation.

Re: injuries- I find it tough to sit here behind my computer and tell superior athletes that they need to play through X,Y,Z. While this approach might be good for the short term, I think its a terrible long term strategy.

The reason that you don't see Irving as a leader is b/c Lebron is on his team, and effectively calls the shots in crunch time. Kyrie wants to leave, in part, due to people like you criticizing him for his lack of leadership. He wants to the prove the doubters wrong that he can lead a good team. He's only 25, so this makes sense as he heads into his prime years.

Through 25 years on earth, it would be hard to argue that IT was better than Kyrie is now. For a decent analysis, you have to look at what IT did 3 years ago vs what Kyrie did this past year. The result: Irving is the better player.

And I love IT!

I have not Seen Kyrie lead so I have nothing to go on in that dept.. I have seen IT lead a team with much less talent.. He is the main reason why our Team over achieves.. 
I have not seen the same from Kryie..

And your analysis for the past 3 years is Minfboggling..   IT had a year last year that Kyrie has never had.. The man was up for league MVP  - Kyrie has never been..  And Kyrie playes with one of the best players to ever lace em up - making his job much easier..  and Still IT out performed him.

For guy who LOVES IT - you have a weird way of looking at things..

[Ilikesports17]

I vote IT.. In my opinion, better Teammate, Equal Scorer.. and Yes he sucks on Defense but dude tries.. Irving has the right Height but doesnt try, (but I guess it doesnt matter since he is taller)  It is also a Leader.. He has the personality and drive suited to make guys follow..  I dont see that In Irving.

And last - I dont understand people bringing up IT's Hip..  Irving is one of the most Often Injured players in the game.. Dude Stays hurt.. Constantly..   His body is fragile as heck... what good is it being 25 when his body is already failing him..

I think you need to see IT play with Lebron before you start comparing them as teammates. It has been noted through sports history that many great athletes are very critical of their teammates. Sometimes this leads to championships, and sometimes this leads to hard feelings and separation.

Re: injuries- I find it tough to sit here behind my computer and tell superior athletes that they need to play through X,Y,Z. While this approach might be good for the short term, I think its a terrible long term strategy.

The reason that you don't see Irving as a leader is b/c Lebron is on his team, and effectively calls the shots in crunch time. Kyrie wants to leave, in part, due to people like you criticizing him for his lack of leadership. He wants to the prove the doubters wrong that he can lead a good team. He's only 25, so this makes sense as he heads into his prime years.

Through 25 years on earth, it would be hard to argue that IT was better than Kyrie is now. For a decent analysis, you have to look at what IT did 3 years ago vs what Kyrie did this past year. The result: Irving is the better player.

And I love IT!

I have not Seen Kyrie lead so I have nothing to go on in that dept.. I have seen IT lead a team with much less talent.. He is the main reason why our Team over achieves.. 
I have not seen the same from Kryie..

And your analysis for the past 3 years is Minfboggling..   IT had a year last year that Kyrie has never had.. The man was up for league MVP  - Kyrie has never been..  And Kyrie playes with one of the best players to ever lace em up - making his job much easier..  and Still IT out performed him.

For guy who LOVES IT - you have a weird way of looking at things..

Lebron has historically had a suffocating effect on his co-stars.

Entirely possible that Irving explodes when not playing next to Lebron. 

[csfansince60s]

Those of us clamoring for Kyrie in BOS should consider CHEMISTRY.

Kyrie - with part of this CLE thing being HIS fault - has a cloud over him right now.

After that Kendrick Perkins trade way back in 2011 this team got a first hand view of what a Chemistry-killing trade can do to a team.

Some would argue - "Well we weren't going to beat MIA anyway."

Some would argue - "Well, we wouldn't have been able to pay Perk anyways."

I hated to see Kendrick Perkins go but that trade worked out for OKC in that they matched up better with LA (and then Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum).

We got Jeff Green. I loved him as a player but we lost toughness and a lot of chemistry in that trade.

The bottom line is that I'd be hesitant to bring in a player that - while immensely talented - has a cloud over him right now for wanting to leave a great team and "Move out on his own."

The Boston Celtics - throughout NBA History - have thrived on CHEMISTRY just as much as talent. Players buying in...players doing their roles....teamwork....no "agendas".

Kyrie has an agenda.

While I love his game and think he's a good kid we need to stay away from him and let him go on to wherever CLE trades him to.

Isaiah Thomas is better - for BOSTON.

I'm tired of seeing this false narrative of what actually happened. If Shaq (maybe even JO) didn't get hurt we likely beat Miami. They did not beat us when Shaq played and we looked like the team to beat. We didn't miss Perk chemistry wise, we missed a good healthy big, that wasn't Perk at the time. I get it, Perk is a beloved figure but it's more in memory of years prior than what actually happened. Don't tell me about OKC either because they carried him there, his contribution was leadership, important for sure but not as much of an impact as having KD, RW, and Harden! Overrated. (hurt Jae like a jerk too, that was BS).

TP.

While I agree with GreenFaith on the chemistry thing relating to IT, I too reject the idea of comparing the circumstances to Perk's situation with us. KG made him, NOT vice versa AND Perk was damaged goods, especially for that season.

[csfansince60s]

In a vacuum, Irving is the better player: more skilled, younger, better contract.

We are not in a vacuum, though.

Kyrie on this team last year would unlikely have brought us to the ECF.

IT brought Horford here. IT has the confidence AND respect of his teammates. Would Kyrie?

Why would anyone want to risk that AND the bad will of trading the face of the franchise who has been tremendously outwardly loyal to the franchise AND the City of Boston??

Bad, bad juju to trade IT. EVEN if he is injured for a good portion of the season......bad juju.

[Greyman]

In a vacuum, Irving is the better player: more skilled, younger, better contract.

We are not in a vacuum, though.

Kyrie on this team last year would unlikely have brought us to the ECF.

IT brought Horford here. IT has the confidence AND respect of his teammates. Would Kyrie?

Why would anyone want to risk that AND the bad will of trading the face of the franchise who has been tremendously outwardly loyal to the franchise AND the City of Boston??

Bad, bad juju to trade IT. EVEN if he is injured for a good portion of the season......bad juju.

I wish Kyrie would get signed somewhere so this interruption would end. The whole debate can't be good at this stage of a preparation. If he signed with the celtics, so be it but I would rather be getting ready for next season with IT and no more squad disruption.