Author Topic: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall  (Read 4469 times)

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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 01:03:54 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2017, 01:18:47 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Wall - Lillard - Irving

Probably put IT between Dame and Kyrie
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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 02:39:10 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Why isn't our own IT is this discussion.  Doesn't anyone want IT anymore?
IT is better than all 3 of them, that's why he's not in the discussion. 8)

Not agreeing or disagreeing but another thread has us trading IT + Crowder + Lakers pick for Irving with many statements that Irving is "clearly better".

In terms of my ranking, I don't get to watch Lillard enough but I like Wall better than Irving.  These players are really close in my opinion.

As far as IT, he is very hard to judge.  His season last season was a better individual season than any of these guys have had.  It is easy to lose sight of just how great that season was.  I am somewhat skeptical that he can repeat it.  I have been wrong about IT plenty though.
Imo he'll at least repeat this season, he's still 28 or so and he just got some more help in Hayward, which would make him even more efficient and get him some more assists. Huge IT fan, can't wait for him to establish himself as a top 3 PG in the league next season.
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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 06:45:55 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Wall, Lillard, Irving

Irving is the best offensive player among the three, hands down. But if I take all other aspects of the game this would be my ranking.

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 07:37:36 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Wall, Irving, Lillard.

Wall is a step behind the other two as a scorer but he's the best playmaker and even if he's lost a little on the defense end he's still much better there.

Irving and Lillard are a really interesting comparison. Lillard averaged slightly more points last season (27.0 to 25.2) but slightly less efficiently (.516 to .535 eFG%). They're TO's are within 0.1 per game of one another. Their APG are within 0.1. Blocks are identical. Steals differ by 0.3. Lillard gets to the line more by a pretty big margin but they're only separated by 1% in FT%. Neither can defend.

I split the hair in Irving's favor and maybe it's just because Irving dismantled the Celtics in Game 4 and I can't shake that from my brain.
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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 10:39:11 AM »

Offline max215

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Wall, Irving, Lillard.
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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2017, 10:58:57 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Wall, Lillard, Irving

Irving is the best offensive player among the three, hands down. But if I take all other aspects of the game this would be my ranking.
There's no way Dames defense is good enough to overcome being "hands down" worse than Kyrienon offense.
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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2017, 11:03:12 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Wall, Lillard, Irving

Irving is the best offensive player among the three, hands down. But if I take all other aspects of the game this would be my ranking.
There's no way Dames defense is good enough to overcome being "hands down" worse than Kyrienon offense.
Maybe durability came into play? Which is a very fair consideration, seeming that Irving has had one more season in the NBA and 15 less games (discounting playoffs). Dame is one of the most consistent and durable guys in the league. Took him 3 years to miss a game, and he still hasn't gone below 75.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2017, 11:55:04 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Are we overvaluing Wall based on his 2nd round series against the Celtics? He is the best defensive player and playmaker. However, he is the weakest scorer. I would rather have the other two guys in a clutch situation.

Are we undervaluing Lillard since we don't see him as often? Elite scorer and clutch player. Has been the leader for Portland since day 1 and is the most durable.

Irving is also an elite scorer and clutch player. But can he lead a team being the number 1 option?

One disadvantage that Irving has in this comparison, is that Wall and Lillard are clearly the best players on their respective teams. Even though Irving deserves to be mentioned in this comparison, he is overshadowed by one of the greatest players in the history on the game.

One complaint against Irving is his durability as compared to the other guys. Since I don't follow the Cavs, I'm not sure if the games he has missed are more due to injuries or rest. Wall and Lillard need to play to help their teams in the regular season for seeding purposes, where their teams are hoping to make it past a round or two. Cleveland does not share that same concern because their more focused on their long playoff run and winning a title.

Lillard, Irving, Wall

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2017, 12:05:25 PM »

Offline CelticSince83

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Wall, then tie between Irving & Dame.

Is this thread Game Theory podcast inspired?  JW.

 


Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2017, 12:10:02 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Wall, then tie between Irving & Dame.

Is this thread Game Theory podcast inspired?  JW.

 

Could be.  No idea.  One of my old college roommates started a text chain with the question but no clue where he got the idea from.  Could've very well come from a podcast.


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Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2017, 12:33:51 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Are we overvaluing Wall based on his 2nd round series against the Celtics? He is the best defensive player and playmaker. However, he is the weakest scorer. I would rather have the other two guys in a clutch situation.

Are we undervaluing Lillard since we don't see him as often? Elite scorer and clutch player. Has been the leader for Portland since day 1 and is the most durable.

Irving is also an elite scorer and clutch player. But can he lead a team being the number 1 option?

One disadvantage that Irving has in this comparison, is that Wall and Lillard are clearly the best players on their respective teams. Even though Irving deserves to be mentioned in this comparison, he is overshadowed by one of the greatest players in the history on the game.

One complaint against Irving is his durability as compared to the other guys. Since I don't follow the Cavs, I'm not sure if the games he has missed are more due to injuries or rest. Wall and Lillard need to play to help their teams in the regular season for seeding purposes, where their teams are hoping to make it past a round or two. Cleveland does not share that same concern because their more focused on their long playoff run and winning a title.

Lillard, Irving, Wall
I don't think wer're overvaluing Wall at all.  And I don't see how he's far and away the worse scorer?  Kyrie and Lillard are better shooters but Wall is improved in that area.  He is bigger and faster and attacks the rim almost at will. 

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2017, 12:38:34 PM »

Offline CelticSince83

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Wall, then tie between Irving & Dame.

Is this thread Game Theory podcast inspired?  JW.

 

Could be.  No idea.  One of my old college roommates started a text chain with the question but no clue where he got the idea from.  Could've very well come from a podcast.

Gotcha.  I was just asking because yesterday's episode was "NBA Heads Up Matchups: Would you rather have..." and Irving v. Lillard was one of them.  Kristaps or Jokic was a pretty interesting conversation as well.  CP3 vs. John Wall (but only for 1 season). 

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2017, 01:55:25 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Are we overvaluing Wall based on his 2nd round series against the Celtics? He is the best defensive player and playmaker. However, he is the weakest scorer. I would rather have the other two guys in a clutch situation.

Are we undervaluing Lillard since we don't see him as often? Elite scorer and clutch player. Has been the leader for Portland since day 1 and is the most durable.

Irving is also an elite scorer and clutch player. But can he lead a team being the number 1 option?

One disadvantage that Irving has in this comparison, is that Wall and Lillard are clearly the best players on their respective teams. Even though Irving deserves to be mentioned in this comparison, he is overshadowed by one of the greatest players in the history on the game.

One complaint against Irving is his durability as compared to the other guys. Since I don't follow the Cavs, I'm not sure if the games he has missed are more due to injuries or rest. Wall and Lillard need to play to help their teams in the regular season for seeding purposes, where their teams are hoping to make it past a round or two. Cleveland does not share that same concern because their more focused on their long playoff run and winning a title.

Lillard, Irving, Wall
I don't think wer're overvaluing Wall at all.  And I don't see how he's far and away the worse scorer?  Kyrie and Lillard are better shooters but Wall is improved in that area.  He is bigger and faster and attacks the rim almost at will.

Those 3 guys are overall, so close talent wise, that it seems very odd for only 2 people to not vote Wall #1. I didn't say Wall was far and away the worse scorer. I just basically mentioned that he was #3 as a scorer out of the three. He has improved as a shooter, but that doesn't mean he's on par with Irving and Lillard.

Re: Rank 'em: Irving, Lillard, Wall
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2017, 02:54:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wall, Irving, Lillard

1. Wall plays defense and makes his team mates better. I can't say the same thing for the other two.

2. Irving's offensive game probanly gets stifled some playing with much better offensive players than Lillard plays with. Therefore, I think Irving is a better offensive and overall player.