IT vs. AI

[GreenEnvy]

I'm sure this conversation has come up before, but a friend and I were talking about Irving and where he could go and he said Celtics should make a big offer, including IT, Crowder, etc.

I said Irving wasn't worth IT plus other assets, as IT has had the best individual season of the two and has proven he can lead the team. Perhaps Irving is more talented (debatable), but he's not worth relinquishing depth for. He responded with "stop acting like Thomas is Iverson."

Which got me thinking.... is Isaiah actually better than Iverson?

I took to the stats because I always felt Iverson was one of the most overrated superstars to ever play. And the stats pretty much reinforced my stance that he definitely was overrated, but perhaps IT is better.

First off, AI has an MVP. Kudos on that, but looking at that season, he was actually a pretty dreadful scorer. Yes he scored a lot, but he also played basically the entire game. He shot an abysmal .447 eFG% and his TS% was .518. Compare that with Isaiah's .546 and .625, respectively. Isaiah's per-36 numbers were basically better across the board.

Now I know Iverson has some better (and worse) seasons, but his career ORtg is less than his DRtg (IT's is +5 for his career and +10 last year, better than ANY season in AI's career). His WS/48 is signicantly less than Isaiah's as well.

If Isaiah puts up a few more seasons close to the one he just put up, I don't see how this is debatable. Yes he got a lot more steals, but that's really the only thing he did better. Shooting (across the board - advantage IT), ball-handling (Isaiah significantly better A:T, 2.21 vs. 1.72), and even +/- (debunking the "Iverson had a trash team" theory)... I really think Thomas can be considered the better player of the two.


What say you guys?

[Eja117]

Cmon man we talkin bout AI.  AI man. We talkin bout AI. No no no! Not Tiny Archibald. We talkin bout A   I. How ridicuous  is that? We talkin bout AI.  Not Tiny Archibald. Not Bob Cousy. We talkin bout A I. 

[droopdog7]

Yes, this was already discussed before.  Seems like almost the same exact opening too?

Anyway, AI won an MVP and sustained his level for a long time.  So IT does not compare.

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Call me in 10 years and we'll talk.

Also, if Kyrie took ITs spot, he'd put up those numbers too

If IT played w LBJ, he wouldn't score 30 a night

Remember who the real finals MVP was in 2016. Kyrie

[Rosco917]

IT had one great year, end of conversation.

[Surferdad]

I would also argue AI had less help at least in Philly (maybe a bit more in Denver).  He HAD to take a lot of shots.

[gouki88]

Call me in 10 years and we'll talk.

Also, if Kyrie took ITs spot, he'd put up those numbers too

If IT played w LBJ, he wouldn't score 30 a night

Remember who the real finals MVP was in 2016. Kyrie

Uhh, what? Kyrie took more shots than IT and scored less, so not sure what you're on about. I don't know if Kyrie would take more shots, because IT is the clear focal point of our offence and still takes less. However, IT would still be able to get his 28-30 with LBJ because he's more efficient and better at picking his spots.

However, AI was a step above these two. He dragged his teams with almost no help.

An interesting argument would be Curry vs AI

[BostonClamCrowdah]

Kyrie is better than IT lol why do people have trouble admitting this

[gouki88]

Kyrie is better than IT lol why do people have trouble admitting this

Yet again somebody says this without citing any evidence.

Wonder why

[Green-18]

It would be interesting to see how AI would fare in today's NBA where the analytics would force him to become a better 3 point shooter.  AI would also be on a roster surrounded by other shooters.  It would be safe to say that he efficiency would jump quite a bit. 

AI's efficiency was terrible in his early Sixers days but I think his Denver statistics show how much a better supporting cast would have helped him. 

AI gets the nod as the better player but that doesn't mean I would prefer to have him on my team.  I think IT's drive to truly be the best is an intangible that comes from being an underdog his entire life.  IT is a great balance of an Alpha personality who is still willing to operate within the context of team first.  Brad has done an excellent job of maximizing IT's talent and it's clear that IT has an understanding of how he can be used most effectively. 

Iverson on the other hand was extremely stubborn and difficult to coach.  These issues are often the case with top ranked college prospects.

[HostAndGreetYourRoastBeef]

Absolutely ridiculous to suggest that Isaiah is even in the same stratosphere as Iverson yet. I'm all for being a homer, but not THAT much of one.

[kozlodoev]

Iverson played defense. Compared to Iverson, Isaiah Thomas is a "nice little player".

Also, calling Iverson "a pretty dreadful scorer" just means you've never seen him play.

[Smitty77]

Iverson played defense. Compared to Iverson, Isaiah Thomas is a "nice little player".

Also, calling Iverson "a pretty dreadful scorer" just means you've never seen him play.

You saying that AI "played defense" makes me wonder if you actually watched him play Koz:-))))))

Smitty77

[LilRip]

I wonder how much the rules change has affected shooting and scoring stats.

[Big333223]

Even though AI wasn't so long ago, it's already hard to compare.

Thomas averaged 5.7 three's a game in '16 and 8.5 three's a game last season, averaging 16.9 and 19.4 total FGA's in those years. Only twice Iverson averaged as many as 4.5 three's per game, in 2002 and 2005 when he attempted 27.8 (!) and 24.2 FG's per game.

During Philly's '01 playoff run, Dikembe Mutombo, Tyrone Hill, and Eric Snow combined for over 106 minutes per game, playing every game, and not one of them made even a single 3 pointer in any playoff game. Now imagine Iverson running to the rim on a team with Horford and Olynyk stretching those lanes wide open. His FG% probably goes up but he also probably attempts more 3's in an offense less predicated on one-on-one scoring.

I have to note that in AI's rookie year, he attempted 6 three's a game but that was the last season of the shorter 3 point line, so I'm not counting that.