Author Topic: Are We Screwed If Wizards Do A S&T For Cousins Next Summer?  (Read 1721 times)

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Re: Are We Screwed If Wizards Do A S&T For Cousins Next Summer?
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 10:37:27 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The Wizards almost knocked us off last year with a starting frontline of Gortat and Morris, and we struggled to deal with that.

So essentially, yes.  Give them the most dominant center (and perhaps big man) in the entire game and there's no chance we beat them in a 7 game series with Marcus Morris and Al Horford.

Right, because we beat them last year and added Hayward and Tatum but that counts for nothing. But losing Porter + what little depth WAS has for Cousins is more than enough that we would have "no chance".

I swear, the angst, self-loathing and hyperbole on this site sometimes...    ::)
With the depth they will have for getting Cousins i doubt they even make the playoffs..

And how much depth did we give up when we dumped Olynyk, Zeller and Jerebko and replaced them with Baynes and bunch of rookies who have never played an NBA game?

How many combined seasons of NBA experience does our entire bench have right now?

* Baynes has 5
* Smart has 3
* Rozier has 2
* Brown has 1

Wait - is that it?   Are there legit only three players on our entire bench who have played more then one NBA season?
Experience only counts for so much when you have little talent, like Zeller and Jerebko. AJ was barely being given minutes down the stretch because he was not helping our team at all. We barely gave up any depth because the only significant contributor we lost was Olynyk, and we already upgraded our bigs with adding Baynes and Morris.

Plus, it's likely that one of Morris or Crowder come off the bench, both who have been in the league for a handful of years. Just because our bench has some inexperienced players doesn't mean they won't be able to contribute.

I disagree.  Experience counts for a lot when you have guys (like Zeller and Jerebko) who have been playing for this team for multiple years and who understand the system, understand their role, understands what the coach wants, and have built strong chemistry together.

I also forgot to add that we also lost Gerald Green, who was also isntrumental in a number of those playoff wins.  If you took Gerald Green, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko off our playoff team last year, I very strongly doubt we'd have made it past Washington - perhaps even Chicago.

I also disagree with you about Morris / Crowder. Based on Brad's love of small ball (and apparent complete lack of interest in rebounding) there's every chance that we end up starting Crowder at SF and Morris at PF, with Hayward replacing Bradley at the SG spot.  If so then our bench will consist of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Baynes, and 3 or 4 other guys who haven't played an NBA game in their lives. Maybe those guys impress and that bench becomes a great strength (and I'm hoping this is the case) but with so little experience it would be foolish for us to assume this is the case.

Re: Are We Screwed If Wizards Do A S&T For Cousins Next Summer?
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2017, 10:55:13 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The Wizards almost knocked us off last year with a starting frontline of Gortat and Morris, and we struggled to deal with that.

So essentially, yes.  Give them the most dominant center (and perhaps big man) in the entire game and there's no chance we beat them in a 7 game series with Marcus Morris and Al Horford.

Right, because we beat them last year and added Hayward and Tatum but that counts for nothing. But losing Porter + what little depth WAS has for Cousins is more than enough that we would have "no chance".

I swear, the angst, self-loathing and hyperbole on this site sometimes...    ::)
With the depth they will have for getting Cousins i doubt they even make the playoffs..

And how much depth did we give up when we dumped Olynyk, Zeller and Jerebko and replaced them with Baynes and bunch of rookies who have never played an NBA game?

How many combined seasons of NBA experience does our entire bench have right now?

* Baynes has 5
* Smart has 3
* Rozier has 2
* Brown has 1

Wait - is that it?   Are there legit only three players on our entire bench who have played more then one NBA season?
Experience only counts for so much when you have little talent, like Zeller and Jerebko. AJ was barely being given minutes down the stretch because he was not helping our team at all. We barely gave up any depth because the only significant contributor we lost was Olynyk, and we already upgraded our bigs with adding Baynes and Morris.

Plus, it's likely that one of Morris or Crowder come off the bench, both who have been in the league for a handful of years. Just because our bench has some inexperienced players doesn't mean they won't be able to contribute.

I disagree.  Experience counts for a lot when you have guys (like Zeller and Jerebko) who have been playing for this team for multiple years and who understand the system, understand their role, understands what the coach wants, and have built strong chemistry together.

I also forgot to add that we also lost Gerald Green, who was also isntrumental in a number of those playoff wins.  If you took Gerald Green, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko off our playoff team last year, I very strongly doubt we'd have made it past Washington - perhaps even Chicago.

I also disagree with you about Morris / Crowder. Based on Brad's love of small ball (and apparent complete lack of interest in rebounding) there's every chance that we end up starting Crowder at SF and Morris at PF, with Hayward replacing Bradley at the SG spot.  If so then our bench will consist of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Baynes, and 3 or 4 other guys who haven't played an NBA game in their lives. Maybe those guys impress and that bench becomes a great strength (and I'm hoping this is the case) but with so little experience it would be foolish for us to assume this is the case.
I just think Jerebko and his 16mpg and Zeller with his 10mpg over 51 games will be quite easily replaced. I do think that building chemistry might be difficult, considering the massive amount of roster turnover we've undergone, but I also believe that after the first couple of months the team will really hit its stride.

I do agree about Green however. Losing him bummed me out, because he seemed genuinely interested in returning and he was quite valuable in the minutes that he provided.

To begin with, I could see us starting IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford, but not for too long. Before too long I think Stevens would change the lineup and make it IT/Brown/Hayward/Morris/Horford with Rozier/Smart/Crowder/Tatum/Baynes, with the other guys like Zizic and co. getting spot minutes here and there.

Overall, I'm not too worried about our depth in the long run, because I believe that they will develop quite quickly. I have faith in Coach Stevens ;D
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Re: Are We Screwed If Wizards Do A S&T For Cousins Next Summer?
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2017, 11:18:08 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The Wizards almost knocked us off last year with a starting frontline of Gortat and Morris, and we struggled to deal with that.

So essentially, yes.  Give them the most dominant center (and perhaps big man) in the entire game and there's no chance we beat them in a 7 game series with Marcus Morris and Al Horford.

Right, because we beat them last year and added Hayward and Tatum but that counts for nothing. But losing Porter + what little depth WAS has for Cousins is more than enough that we would have "no chance".

I swear, the angst, self-loathing and hyperbole on this site sometimes...    ::)
With the depth they will have for getting Cousins i doubt they even make the playoffs..

And how much depth did we give up when we dumped Olynyk, Zeller and Jerebko and replaced them with Baynes and bunch of rookies who have never played an NBA game?

How many combined seasons of NBA experience does our entire bench have right now?

* Baynes has 5
* Smart has 3
* Rozier has 2
* Brown has 1

Wait - is that it?   Are there legit only three players on our entire bench who have played more then one NBA season?
Experience only counts for so much when you have little talent, like Zeller and Jerebko. AJ was barely being given minutes down the stretch because he was not helping our team at all. We barely gave up any depth because the only significant contributor we lost was Olynyk, and we already upgraded our bigs with adding Baynes and Morris.

Plus, it's likely that one of Morris or Crowder come off the bench, both who have been in the league for a handful of years. Just because our bench has some inexperienced players doesn't mean they won't be able to contribute.

I disagree.  Experience counts for a lot when you have guys (like Zeller and Jerebko) who have been playing for this team for multiple years and who understand the system, understand their role, understands what the coach wants, and have built strong chemistry together.

I also forgot to add that we also lost Gerald Green, who was also isntrumental in a number of those playoff wins.  If you took Gerald Green, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko off our playoff team last year, I very strongly doubt we'd have made it past Washington - perhaps even Chicago.

I also disagree with you about Morris / Crowder. Based on Brad's love of small ball (and apparent complete lack of interest in rebounding) there's every chance that we end up starting Crowder at SF and Morris at PF, with Hayward replacing Bradley at the SG spot.  If so then our bench will consist of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Baynes, and 3 or 4 other guys who haven't played an NBA game in their lives. Maybe those guys impress and that bench becomes a great strength (and I'm hoping this is the case) but with so little experience it would be foolish for us to assume this is the case.
I just think Jerebko and his 16mpg and Zeller with his 10mpg over 51 games will be quite easily replaced. I do think that building chemistry might be difficult, considering the massive amount of roster turnover we've undergone, but I also believe that after the first couple of months the team will really hit its stride.

I do agree about Green however. Losing him bummed me out, because he seemed genuinely interested in returning and he was quite valuable in the minutes that he provided.

To begin with, I could see us starting IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford, but not for too long. Before too long I think Stevens would change the lineup and make it IT/Brown/Hayward/Morris/Horford with Rozier/Smart/Crowder/Tatum/Baynes, with the other guys like Zizic and co. getting spot minutes here and there.

Overall, I'm not too worried about our depth in the long run, because I believe that they will develop quite quickly. I have faith in Coach Stevens ;D

I don't disagree regarding Jerebko, Zeller and Amir.  I mean I do really like what Amir and Jerebko gave us lets be honest while on the floor, but both guys are replaceable.  And Zeller...well lets be honest, he is a non factor lol 

However I do think that the losses of Kelly Olynyk, Gerald Green and (especially) Avery Bradley are huge.  Really huge.  Team-changing-caliber huge.  Those three guys were all absolutely instrumental to us getting to the Finals, and anybody who thinks those losses will be easily made up for may be in for a rude shock.

It's yet to be seen whether the addition of Hayward, Morris and Bayes will be enough to replace the two-way playoff contributions of those guys - let alone prove to be an upgrade.  Hayward is obviously the best player of that group, but I'm not entirely convinced that Morris and Baynes is an upgrade over Olynyk and Green. 

We SHOULD be better once we find out chemistry, but it's not a given.

Also I'm not so much concerned about whether guys like Amir and Jerebko ARE replaceable so much as I'm worried about whether we actually DID replace them.

Amir mainly gave us rim protection and rebounding (he was probably our best rebounder tbh) and I can say we've replaced his production pretty well by adding Baynes. 

Jerebko gave us length and defensive versatility, energy, rebounding and outside shooting.  I feel we've more than replaced that with the combination of Morris. 

What worries me is Olynyk.  He's a 7 footer who can put the ball on the floor, finish at the basket, pass the ball, shoot consistently from three while also being a plus defender.  I'm not 100% convinced we've picked up anybody who replaced that.  Closest would be Tatum if he works out as good as promised, but having a 6'8" guy who can do these things is not the same as having a 7'0" who can do these things.

I also worry about whether we've replaced what Bradley gave us  He gave us a 2nd scoring option who defenses had to respect, which took pressure off Thomas.  He also gave us a consistent three point threat and elite perimeter defense that made life very difficult for a lot of opposing guards.  Hayward replaces the scoring and three point shooting in spades, but does nothing to replace the difficulties Bradley presented to opposing teams on defense.  I'm hoping his superior offensive game and extra scoring production makes up for that - and I think it probably will.

We have added a lot of nice talent to the team, no question about that.  But we've lost a lot as well, make no mistake about that. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 11:32:36 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Are We Screwed If Wizards Do A S&T For Cousins Next Summer?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2017, 10:19:12 AM »

Offline Big333223

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If New Orleans made Cousins available it would mean he was a disaster. If he goes from being a disaster in Sacramento to being a disaster in N0ew Orleans, while playing alongisde one of the league's best young players, then all of the "Is it Boogie or is it Sac?" questions get answered. And I will only be afraid of Cousins if he joins the Celtics.

Or it could just mean that a team centered around Anthony Davis and Demarcus Cousins (the two best big men in the game, who both are at their best with the ball in their hands) doesn't work all that great.

I disagree with your assessment of Davis' game. He's great off the ball. Cousins also has done a fair amount of spotting up for 3's the last 2 seasons. Defensively, Davis should be able to guard quicker 4's and Cousins can bang with anyone in the league. I think their games could be good together, if they can play nice.

There is very little evidence to support the theory that adding Demarcus Cousins drastically increases the win total of an NBA basketball team. Until that changes, I'll continue to not give a **** about his lazy stat-padding output.

Also, this.