Author Topic: Will Celtics be favorites to win the east by start of regular season?  (Read 1465 times)

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Offline celticsclay

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The odds were pretty close on most reputable sites before the Irving news broke (-140 for Cavs, +260 for Celtics).

Most legit sites that offer futures (eg 5 dimes) have taken them off the board until the Irving situation is resolved.

However, If Irving gets traded for one of the trades being floated around (Harris, Murray, Chandler for Shumpert/Irving or Bledsoe and Dudley and a pick for Irving) would further erode Cleveland's chances to win the east and I think there is a reasonable chance the Celtics will become a legit pickem or slight favorites to win the East. That would be really exciting to go into a season viewed by national observers as having a 50% to make the finals. 

What do others think?



Offline jpotter33

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Eh, being the "favorite" is so subjective that it's hard to pin down, but I do think there will be a healthy mix of views varying between Cleveland being the favorite and Boston being the favorite.

I think you'll end up seeing Cleveland getting a more "future-oriented" package for Kyrie, which will make them a significantly lesser team this coming year and certainly capable of being overthrown by Boston.

Offline celticsclay

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Eh, being the "favorite" is so subjective that it's hard to pin down, but I do think there will be a healthy mix of views varying between Cleveland being the favorite and Boston being the favorite.

I think you'll eing Cleveland getting a more "future-oriented" package for Kyrie, which will make them a significantly lesser team this coming year and certainly capable of being overthrown by Boston.nd up see

This is what I think too, about the future-orientated package. I can't see a trade for someone like Lillard straight up and nobody that I have seen seriously mentioned has been an all-star yet. Going from 3 stars to 2 and losing your second best player is going to be pretty tough to overcome. Feels like Christmas has come in July and the Celtics are incredible lucky this happened when Butler and George were off the market because either of them would have been good replacements for Kyrie (I actually think George is better than Kyirie).

Offline Surferdad

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Impossible to say.  Let's see what the deal is first, if there even is a deal.  I'd say the odds of Irving being trade before the start of the season is below 50%.

Offline keevsnick

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If they were to trade Irving for a package that's 100% salary relief and draft picks I'd say yes, but probably not by as much as some people think. Love is still a very good player who can provide a lot offensively and if asked to play a bigger role he can make up for some of that loss. And Leron is Lebron. I'd give us a pretty good chance to win the series tho.

Offline celticsclay

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Impossible to say.  Let's see what the deal is first, if there even is a deal.  I'd say the odds of Irving being trade before the start of the season is below 50%.

Not sure why you would think that. The Cavs are trying to trade him. Kyrie both said he doesn't want to play with Lebron and then they blamed Lebron's camp for leaking the story that he wanted to get traded. You don't go back and play honky dory like nothing happened after that. Of all the things that could happen, those two starting the season together on Cleveland is the least likely result of all of then.

Offline Surferdad

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Impossible to say.  Let's see what the deal is first, if there even is a deal.  I'd say the odds of Irving being trade before the start of the season is below 50%.

Not sure why you would think that. The Cavs are trying to trade him. Kyrie both said he doesn't want to play with Lebron and then they blamed Lebron's camp for leaking the story that he wanted to get traded. You don't go back and play honky dory like nothing happened after that. Of all the things that could happen, those two starting the season together on Cleveland is the least likely result of all of then.
Well I don't know why you wouldn't think like that.  Fences can be mended.  I just don't see why they should trade him right now.  His value should be low at the moment with the sensational news that he wants out.  Why not wait 6 months and let teams that see a deep playoff run in sight make an offer?  There could even be a bidding war for the all-star.  He's not an expiring contract like P.George.

Offline saltlover

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It really depends not just what they get from a Kyrie trade, but if they make a second move as a result of the first.  Say tomorrow they trade Kyrie and Frye for Bledsoe, Chandler, and at least one first.  Then 2 months from now they turn around and trade Chandler, Shumpert, and the draft compensation they just got for Melo. 

Is a team with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Anthony, LBJ, Love, and Thompson worse than their current team?  If so, it wouldn't be by much.  And then they'd have Smith as a 6th man, as well as Korver.

Offline celticsclay

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Impossible to say.  Let's see what the deal is first, if there even is a deal.  I'd say the odds of Irving being trade before the start of the season is below 50%.

Not sure why you would think that. The Cavs are trying to trade him. Kyrie both said he doesn't want to play with Lebron and then they blamed Lebron's camp for leaking the story that he wanted to get traded. You don't go back and play honky dory like nothing happened after that. Of all the things that could happen, those two starting the season together on Cleveland is the least likely result of all of then.
Well I don't know why you wouldn't think like that.  Fences can be mended.  I just don't see why they should trade him right now.  His value should be low at the moment with the sensational news that he wants out.  Why not wait 6 months and let teams that see a deep playoff run in sight make an offer?  There could even be a bidding war for the all-star.  He's not an expiring contract like P.George.

It is pretty unusual for a player to not just make a trade demand, but say he doesn't want to play with a specific player any more as the reason. There are going to be people that side with Irving in the issues (feel like Lebron and his free agency is dominating everything they do) and there are people that are going to side with Lebron. It would completely divide the locker room and ruin whatever small chance they have of winning a title next year to spend the year going through that. Also if they really do make a trade like this 6 months from now cause they feel like they are going to get a better return. Isn't any small benefit they get offset by the fact the new players on the Cavs (and presumably a ball handling point guard would be part of the return) doesn't get to through training camp, have time to learn the plays or have more than a few handfuls with their teammates etc?

The Cavs just need to find out what the best package is and play teams against each other and move on. While most of the players traded recently had some contract issues that made it different (Paul George, Cousins etc) the fact is even players like Butler with a few years didn't land the monster package their teams were hoping for. The Cavs are pointing to the Dragic deal as what they would like to get (multiple first rounders)

Offline celticsclay

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It really depends not just what they get from a Kyrie trade, but if they make a second move as a result of the first.  Say tomorrow they trade Kyrie and Frye for Bledsoe, Chandler, and at least one first.  Then 2 months from now they turn around and trade Chandler, Shumpert, and the draft compensation they just got for Melo. 

Is a team with a starting lineup of Bledsoe, Anthony, LBJ, Love, and Thompson worse than their current team?  If so, it wouldn't be by much.  And then they'd have Smith as a 6th man, as well as Korver.

It seems like Anthony is going to get traded to a different team (Houston and now OKC have been a lot more heavily rumored). If Anthony had somehow gotten bought out and the Cavs could have got him for cheap that would have made a lot more sense.

Of course if everything breaks right you can imagine a situation where they are not that much worse next year then this year. However, I think it may be easy to forget how much Irving's ability to generate offense and score took pressure of Lebron shouldering too big a load when he is about to be 33.