Author Topic: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar  (Read 4176 times)

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Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2017, 11:21:15 AM »

Offline No Nickname

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Lebron can't wait to have like 6 Celtic wings hanging all over him every second he is on court . 

Haha.  I know you didn't mean that there would actually be six Celtic wings on the court at the same time, but with this glut of wing players on the team now it kind of feels like that! 

While we have some outstanding/capable/intriguing wings we truly don't have a "Lebron Stopper."  I don't know if there really is one in the NBA.  The only thing you can hope for is to stay in front of him, be big enough that he can't easily back you down, and hope that he's not hitting from outside that night (which is often).  I think Boris Diaw did the best job of that.  Quick feet for a big boy, and he never bought the pump fake.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 11:25:18 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I think most of us casual observers think of Morris as a better shooter.  The fact that the numbers don't bear that out begs for further analysis.

They actually do bear it out, other than this past year for the most part. Crowder shot 40% from 3 this year, which is a major aberration with his next highest year being 34%. But even with that elite year, he's still behind Morris nearly a full percentage point for their careers at 34.6% compared to Morris' 35.5%. For reference, both IT and AB are at 36.7 for their career marks, so for a SF/PF combo who plays mostly as a quick 4, Morris is actually pretty good from long range, and I suspect his efficiency goes up with as much talent as he'll have surrounding him now.
So, two things: (1) Is last season an aberration or an improvement for Crowder?  I prefer to think it is an improvement.  (2) a one-percentage-point difference is not much, IMO.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 12:18:28 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I think most of us casual observers think of Morris as a better shooter.  The fact that the numbers don't bear that out begs for further analysis.

They actually do bear it out, other than this past year for the most part. Crowder shot 40% from 3 this year, which is a major aberration with his next highest year being 34%. But even with that elite year, he's still behind Morris nearly a full percentage point for their careers at 34.6% compared to Morris' 35.5%. For reference, both IT and AB are at 36.7 for their career marks, so for a SF/PF combo who plays mostly as a quick 4, Morris is actually pretty good from long range, and I suspect his efficiency goes up with as much talent as he'll have surrounding him now.
So, two things: (1) Is last season an aberration or an improvement for Crowder?  I prefer to think it is an improvement..........

And you'd be absolutely right!!

There were a bunch of stories and reports that I had read and seen last summer and fall about how hard Crowder worked on his 3-ball last summer.

Here's just one:


http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/09/jae_crowder_of_boston_celtics.html

Quote
By Jay King
 
 

WALTHAM -- The early stages of training camp are always tough to cover because so little is really known. The Boston Celtics haven't played a game. Reporters haven't seen any 5-on-5 action. We can only go by what people tell us, and basketball players tend to be optimistic.

So I don't know how much stock you should put into Al Horford's claim that Jae Crowder's jump shot developed over the summer. Horford saw Crowder at his worst last season -- when the forward was hobbling through an ankle injury in the playoffs and shooting gross percentages from behind the arc. But, anyway, Horford went out of his way on media day to compliment Crowder's improved 3-point shooting. The topic became something to discuss.

"Jae works really hard on his shot," head coach Brad Stevens said Wednesday before the second practice of the day. "He's very consistent in his work, very deliberate in his practice. I haven't noticed a ton of difference. I've always thought he was a pretty good shooter. A whole other summer of work so, he's made shots certainly thus far. (During the first day of practice), he made shots."

Crowder shot a career-high 33.6 percent from behind the arc last season, but a closer look reveals how close he came to bettering that. Over the months of December, January and February he shot 37.3 percent, 37.9 percent and 34.5 percent, respectively, before ankle issues hindered him down the stretch. After a late tailspin (which was related to the injuries), he finished a bit below the league average for 3-point shooting. It's possible he could rise to that level, 35.4 percent, or beyond it just by staying healthy.

Quote
The vast majority of Crowder's long jump shots were catch-and-shoot attempts. He said he spent a lot of time developing his off-the-dribble game this summer.

"Way more comfortable off the dribble, shooting the ball off the dribble, making a play off the dribble," he said. "Of course with Isaiah (Thomas) who's going to draw a lot of attention and Al's going to draw a lot of attention, I should have a lot of shots on the court where it's just me stepping into a shot and making it. So I'm just trying to work on those shots. And of course like I said, I just feel more comfortable off the dribble, making a shot, making a pull-up, or if it be just coming off the pick, stepping back and shooting a three."

Like most other improvement talk this early in training camp, we don't know for now how it will translate to the court. But it would be an interesting wrinkle for the Celtics development if Crowder, an efficient scorer already, could become more dynamic at the offensive end.

I love the guy's grittiness and work ethic and for some reason he seems to have fell in disfavor with some on here, right after he was whining about GH getting the reception that he did here in the winter. The guy cares.....and he's a bargain.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 12:56:59 PM by csfansince60s »

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 12:30:41 PM »

Offline saltlover

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I think most of us casual observers think of Morris as a better shooter.  The fact that the numbers don't bear that out begs for further analysis.

They actually do bear it out, other than this past year for the most part. Crowder shot 40% from 3 this year, which is a major aberration with his next highest year being 34%. But even with that elite year, he's still behind Morris nearly a full percentage point for their careers at 34.6% compared to Morris' 35.5%. For reference, both IT and AB are at 36.7 for their career marks, so for a SF/PF combo who plays mostly as a quick 4, Morris is actually pretty good from long range, and I suspect his efficiency goes up with as much talent as he'll have surrounding him now.
So, two things: (1) Is last season an aberration or an improvement for Crowder?  I prefer to think it is an improvement.  (2) a one-percentage-point difference is not much, IMO.

Probably both improvement and an aberration.  In 2015-2016, he shot 35.4% from 3 before injuring his ankle in March, which would have been a career-best had he maintained that rate.  After the injury he shot only 20.5%, lowering his season rate by a couple of points, so that it looked like he hadn't gotten any better.  Then last year he took yet another jump.  Going from 35.4% to 39.8% is more of a trend and less of an outlier, but it's still possible that 39.8% from 3 will be his career best, and that he'll settle into a 36-38% range (which is still quite useful).

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 12:49:05 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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I think most of us casual observers think of Morris as a better shooter.  The fact that the numbers don't bear that out begs for further analysis.

They actually do bear it out, other than this past year for the most part. Crowder shot 40% from 3 this year, which is a major aberration with his next highest year being 34%. But even with that elite year, he's still behind Morris nearly a full percentage point for their careers at 34.6% compared to Morris' 35.5%. For reference, both IT and AB are at 36.7 for their career marks, so for a SF/PF combo who plays mostly as a quick 4, Morris is actually pretty good from long range, and I suspect his efficiency goes up with as much talent as he'll have surrounding him now.
So, two things: (1) Is last season an aberration or an improvement for Crowder?  I prefer to think it is an improvement.  (2) a one-percentage-point difference is not much, IMO.

Probably both improvement and an aberration.  In 2015-2016, he shot 35.4% from 3 before injuring his ankle in March, which would have been a career-best had he maintained that rate.  After the injury he shot only 20.5%, lowering his season rate by a couple of points, so that it looked like he hadn't gotten any better.  Then last year he took yet another jump.  Going from 35.4% to 39.8% is more of a trend and less of an outlier, but it's still possible that 39.8% from 3 will be his career best, and that he'll settle into a 36-38% range (which is still quite useful).

Yeah, I think that's fair, along with being on a much better team with more options to create less defensive pressure focused on him.

I just don't think we should necessarily be relying solely on this past year as an indicator for where Crowder will be from now on since it's such an outlier compared to the rest of his career.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 01:33:19 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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They aren't even close to similar players I don't know why people keep saying it

Morris is a true PF while Crowder is a true SF


NEXT

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 01:47:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Morris is a true PF while Crowder is a true SF
No, he's not. He's barely ever played full-time PF over his career.

He spent half of his time last season in lineups with both John Leuer and Andre Drummond. He's a combo forward at best, perhaps a passable interior defender and definitely a poor rebounder.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 02:13:43 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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Morris is a true PF while Crowder is a true SF
No, he's not. He's barely ever played full-time PF over his career.

He spent half of his time last season in lineups with both John Leuer and Andre Drummond. He's a combo forward at best, perhaps a passable interior defender and definitely a poor rebounder.

Ok so he's a crappy PF

A SF in today's game is basically a bigger/taller SG

Shoot, score, handle the ball, perimeter type player

That's not Morris

In today's trend of playing small he is absolutely a 4

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 02:27:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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SF in today's game is basically a bigger/taller SG

Shoot, score, handle the ball, perimeter type player
In today's game (and in just about any game I can think of over the last couple of decades) who you are is what you can play defensively.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 02:58:18 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Crowder is a 3 and D only player. (However he does bring some needed emotion as well) Morris has a much better offensive game. If you look at his highlights you see a guy who can handle the ball and has smooth moves. Crowder is stiff. Much more of an offensive threat with the ability to play sold D and a better rebounder. If he can bring the emotion he will replace Crowder fairly quickly.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 03:58:54 PM »

Offline aingeforthree

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Morris is the far better player and can actually play the 4. I still think there is a Crowder trade package waiting in the wings.

You upgraded Bradley with Hayward.
You upgraded Crowder with Morris.
You upgraded Amir with Baynes.

Plus got Tatum. Stacked. Heckuva offseason.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 04:25:39 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Crowder is a 3 and D only player. (However he does bring some needed emotion as well) Morris has a much better offensive game. If you look at his highlights you see a guy who can handle the ball and has smooth moves. Crowder is stiff. Much more of an offensive threat with the ability to play sold D and a better rebounder. If he can bring the emotion he will replace Crowder fairly quickly.
Jae Crowder's career rebounding percentage: 14.8 DRB%, 9.1 TRB%.
Marcus Morris' career rebounding percentage: 14.0 DRB%, 8.9 TRB%.

People see what they want to see.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 04:30:09 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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I think most of us casual observers think of Morris as a better shooter.  The fact that the numbers don't bear that out begs for further analysis.

They actually do bear it out, other than this past year for the most part. Crowder shot 40% from 3 this year, which is a major aberration with his next highest year being 34%. But even with that elite year, he's still behind Morris nearly a full percentage point for their careers at 34.6% compared to Morris' 35.5%. For reference, both IT and AB are at 36.7 for their career marks, so for a SF/PF combo who plays mostly as a quick 4, Morris is actually pretty good from long range, and I suspect his efficiency goes up with as much talent as he'll have surrounding him now.
So, two things: (1) Is last season an aberration or an improvement for Crowder?  I prefer to think it is an improvement.  (2) a one-percentage-point difference is not much, IMO.

Probably both improvement and an aberration.  In 2015-2016, he shot 35.4% from 3 before injuring his ankle in March, which would have been a career-best had he maintained that rate.  After the injury he shot only 20.5%, lowering his season rate by a couple of points, so that it looked like he hadn't gotten any better.  Then last year he took yet another jump.  Going from 35.4% to 39.8% is more of a trend and less of an outlier, but it's still possible that 39.8% from 3 will be his career best, and that he'll settle into a 36-38% range (which is still quite useful).

Yeah, I think that's fair, along with being on a much better team with more options to create less defensive pressure focused on him.

I just don't think we should necessarily be relying solely on this past year as an indicator for where Crowder will be from now on since it's such an outlier compared to the rest of his career.

To be safe I would assume that his career 3% percentage is probably a better indicator than a single season 3 pt percentage, because mathematically it is. Tis is why I always chuckle a little when people freak about college players 3% for one year. It has very little predictive power. Even good shooters can have massive rise/fall from year to year.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2017, 05:43:38 PM »

Offline inverselock

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Crowder is only a spot up shooter.   Morris can get his own.   

How it happens is just as important as the result.

Re: Morris and Crowder, strikingly similar
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2017, 05:59:57 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Crowder is a 3 and D only player. (However he does bring some needed emotion as well) Morris has a much better offensive game. If you look at his highlights you see a guy who can handle the ball and has smooth moves. Crowder is stiff. Much more of an offensive threat with the ability to play sold D and a better rebounder. If he can bring the emotion he will replace Crowder fairly quickly.
Jae Crowder's career rebounding percentage: 14.8 DRB%, 9.1 TRB%.
Marcus Morris' career rebounding percentage: 14.0 DRB%, 8.9 TRB%.

People see what they want to see.



 Plus he avg 5 RPG last year next to Drummond who grabs like 14 RPG. No easy task.