Lebron James won't waive his no trade

[green_bballers13]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

[Moranis]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

[csfansince60s]

I'd like to know how anyone knows that LeBUM won't waive his no trade.  So I don't know whether to believe this or not.  And, I have a hard time not blaming LeBUM for the mess with the Cavs.  I just think he's behind most of the bs going on.

I agree......this is typical of him and his crew.

And I don't think he will waive his no-trade clause because whatever team he goes to will have to give up almost team-crippling assets for him which will hinder his desire to contend. He will ride out his time in Cleveland, try to move Kyrie for assets to help HIS title quest THIS year and then go to a team in FA next year so that team doesn't weaken themselves by giving up assets for him.

[Moranis]

I'd like to know how anyone knows that LeBUM won't waive his no trade.  So I don't know whether to believe this or not.  And, I have a hard time not blaming LeBUM for the mess with the Cavs.  I just think he's behind most of the bs going on.

I agree......this is typical of him and his crew.

And I don't think he will waive his no-trade clause because whatever team he goes to will have to give up almost team-crippling assets for him which will hinder his desire to contend. He will ride out his time in Cleveland, try to move Kylie for assets to help HIS title quest THIS year and then go to a team in FA next year so that team doesn't weaken themselves by giving up assets for him.

That isn't necessarily true.  Boston and Philadelphia, for example, both have a lot of future draft picks that James would have no real need of for his window.  The only real issue for Boston is Horford would have to be traded.  So is Thomas, Hayward, and James with vets like Crowder, Baynes, and Morris and young guys like Brown, Tatum, Smart, and Rozier good enough to really compete with GS?  Probably not, but Brown and Tatum could also likely be moved to create a team that is good enough (would need a big). 

[celticsclay]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

I am honestly pretty perplexed that you think a team starting Murray, Jr Smith, Lebron, Love Thompson with Harris and Chandler off the bench is a clear favorite to win the east (maybe switching Harris for Smith in the lineup)... Or how does trading a top 15 NBA player for an NBA average point guard in Rubio and a young shooting guard Hood that is no better than Jr Smith not really hurt the Cavs?

Of all the trades you mentioned, the only one that would keep Cleveland the slim favorites to win the east they already are is the Cousins one.

I think there is a good that by the end of the week when a trade is consummated the Celtics will be slight favorites to win the east this year. Curious how long you are going to keep up this routine:

[Moranis]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

I am honestly pretty perplexed that you think a team starting Murray, Jr Smith, Lebron, Love Thompson with Harris and Chandler off the bench is a clear favorite to win the east (maybe switching Harris for Smith in the lineup)... Or how does trading a top 15 NBA player for an NBA average point guard in Rubio and a young shooting guard Hood that is no better than Jr Smith not really hurt the Cavs?

Of all the trades you mentioned, the only one that would keep Cleveland the slim favorites to win the east they already are is the Cousins one.

I think there is a good that by the end of the week when a trade is consummated the Celtics will be slight favorites to win the east this year. Curious how long you are going to keep up this routine:

Lebron James is the best player in the Eastern Conference and is by a pretty wide margin.  He with a team of average NBA players could likely win all but like 3 series in the East, but James isn't alone.  The Cavs still have Love.  They still have Thompson.  They would still have whatever they get back. 

I also assumed they signed Rose, since that looks pretty likely at this point.  So take the Denver trade that would leave Cleveland with a starting 5 of Thompson, Love, James, Harris, and Rose with the main rotation of Murray, Chandler, Smith, Korver, Shumpert, and Frye.  That team is winning the East. 

And you are significantly underrating both Harris and Hood.  Harris, for example, last year was a 15/3/3 player and shot 42% from three.  He is a goodish defender and is just 22 years old.  The Cavs would also be adding Chandler and his 16/6.5/2 to their bench and a rising PG prospect in Murray. 

Now Hood did regress a bit coming back from his injury last year, but he is a good shooter, good defender, and generally a very good all around player.  I'd expect him to be stronger and better this year than last year given he is healthy and players often take some time to really get back (he is also in his mid 20's and only going into year 4).  Rubio is a poor 3 point shooter, but does pretty much everything else you would want from a PG (i.e. excellent passer, great steal generation, superb rebounder (for a pg), excellent foul shooter, etc.). 

[celticsclay]

Lowe's Trade ideas (note these seem to be things he could see happening, not based on actual rumors

Irving for Brogdon, Middleton and first rounders
Irving and Shumpert for Dragic, Winslow and Ellington
Irving for Dudley, Bledsoe and Jackson (possible shumpert also)
Irving for Chandler, Harris and Murray (perhaps also first)
Irving for Cousins (though notes he has heard nothing of this)

Overall it doesn't really seem like there is a perfect easy trade market for Irving. Most would also agree that with the exception of the Cousins deal and Cavs are giving up the best player in every other trade idea that is out there.

All of this is tremendous news for the Celtics. This being a star driven league the Cavs being forced to get a 50 cents piece and two quarters for Irving (or less) is a big swing in chances. Most of the sites that are live and updating NBA futures have actually downgraded the Cavs chances of winning the title even further putting them all the way to +650 to win the championship now. It is noted that a lot of sites are not offering odds until this is resolved.

[csfansince60s]

I'd like to know how anyone knows that LeBUM won't waive his no trade.  So I don't know whether to believe this or not.  And, I have a hard time not blaming LeBUM for the mess with the Cavs.  I just think he's behind most of the bs going on.

I agree......this is typical of him and his crew.

And I don't think he will waive his no-trade clause because whatever team he goes to will have to give up almost team-crippling assets for him which will hinder his desire to contend. He will ride out his time in Cleveland, try to move Kylie for assets to help HIS title quest THIS year and then go to a team in FA next year so that team doesn't weaken themselves by giving up assets for him.

That isn't necessarily true.  Boston and Philadelphia, for example, both have a lot of future draft picks that James would have no real need of for his window.  The only real issue for Boston is Horford would have to be traded.  So is Thomas, Hayward, and James with vets like Crowder, Baynes, and Morris and young guys like Brown, Tatum, Smart, and Rozier good enough to really compete with GS?  Probably not, but Brown and Tatum could also likely be moved to create a team that is good enough (would need a big).

Us possibly as the only team, Philly no chance.

Philly has too many doubts (Embid's health, question as to when that team can contend, even with James) and are unproven with no playoff experience. Can't see James agreeing to go there. His window is now.

[celticsclay]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

I am honestly pretty perplexed that you think a team starting Murray, Jr Smith, Lebron, Love Thompson with Harris and Chandler off the bench is a clear favorite to win the east (maybe switching Harris for Smith in the lineup)... Or how does trading a top 15 NBA player for an NBA average point guard in Rubio and a young shooting guard Hood that is no better than Jr Smith not really hurt the Cavs?

Of all the trades you mentioned, the only one that would keep Cleveland the slim favorites to win the east they already are is the Cousins one.

I think there is a good that by the end of the week when a trade is consummated the Celtics will be slight favorites to win the east this year. Curious how long you are going to keep up this routine:

Lebron James is the best player in the Eastern Conference and is by a pretty wide margin.  He with a team of average NBA players could likely win all but like 3 series in the East, but James isn't alone.  The Cavs still have Love.  They still have Thompson.  They would still have whatever they get back. 

I also assumed they signed Rose, since that looks pretty likely at this point.  So take the Denver trade that would leave Cleveland with a starting 5 of Thompson, Love, James, Harris, and Rose with the main rotation of Murray, Chandler, Smith, Korver, Shumpert, and Frye.  That team is winning the East. 

And you are significantly underrating both Harris and Hood.  Harris, for example, last year was a 15/3/3 player and shot 42% from three.  He is a goodish defender and is just 22 years old.  The Cavs would also be adding Chandler and his 16/6.5/2 to their bench and a rising PG prospect in Murray. 

Now Hood did regress a bit coming back from his injury last year, but he is a good shooter, good defender, and generally a very good all around player.  I'd expect him to be stronger and better this year than last year given he is healthy and players often take some time to really get back (he is also in his mid 20's and only going into year 4).  Rubio is a poor 3 point shooter, but does pretty much everything else you would want from a PG (i.e. excellent passer, great steal generation, superb rebounder (for a pg), excellent foul shooter, etc.).

Lebron has always had 3 all-stars on his team during this finals run (with the exception of the first two years when Love didn't make it). When he was playing alongside just one other star in his first Cleveland go around he couldn't make it to the finals. Also while Love is an all-star last year was the first year he had made it in 3 years. Given his lack of defensive play he really has settled into a role as an elite 3 point shooter and above average rebounder without being a complete game changer. It is also a bit puzzling you keep mentioning Thompson as some sort of game changer/significant piece. Thompson is definitely an elite rebounder, but is very far from a complete player. His range is about 6 feet. He his such a bad foul shooter they have to limit his playing time in some situations. He hasn't even topped 30 minutes a game since 2013-2014.

Also I wish you could be consistent with how you view things that happen for Boston and Cleveland. You have spent the better part of this summer (and the last few years) arguing about how role players and depth are not that important because Cleveland has more star power than Boston. Now Cleveland is going to trade its' second best player, most likely for a player that has never made an all-star team (Bledsoe, Rubio, Harris, Murray, Dragic) have  Now all of a sudden you want to talk about the upside of role players like Harris, Murray, Hood, Chandler etc. I mean, be consistent dude...

[Moranis]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

I am honestly pretty perplexed that you think a team starting Murray, Jr Smith, Lebron, Love Thompson with Harris and Chandler off the bench is a clear favorite to win the east (maybe switching Harris for Smith in the lineup)... Or how does trading a top 15 NBA player for an NBA average point guard in Rubio and a young shooting guard Hood that is no better than Jr Smith not really hurt the Cavs?

Of all the trades you mentioned, the only one that would keep Cleveland the slim favorites to win the east they already are is the Cousins one.

I think there is a good that by the end of the week when a trade is consummated the Celtics will be slight favorites to win the east this year. Curious how long you are going to keep up this routine:

Lebron James is the best player in the Eastern Conference and is by a pretty wide margin.  He with a team of average NBA players could likely win all but like 3 series in the East, but James isn't alone.  The Cavs still have Love.  They still have Thompson.  They would still have whatever they get back. 

I also assumed they signed Rose, since that looks pretty likely at this point.  So take the Denver trade that would leave Cleveland with a starting 5 of Thompson, Love, James, Harris, and Rose with the main rotation of Murray, Chandler, Smith, Korver, Shumpert, and Frye.  That team is winning the East. 

And you are significantly underrating both Harris and Hood.  Harris, for example, last year was a 15/3/3 player and shot 42% from three.  He is a goodish defender and is just 22 years old.  The Cavs would also be adding Chandler and his 16/6.5/2 to their bench and a rising PG prospect in Murray. 

Now Hood did regress a bit coming back from his injury last year, but he is a good shooter, good defender, and generally a very good all around player.  I'd expect him to be stronger and better this year than last year given he is healthy and players often take some time to really get back (he is also in his mid 20's and only going into year 4).  Rubio is a poor 3 point shooter, but does pretty much everything else you would want from a PG (i.e. excellent passer, great steal generation, superb rebounder (for a pg), excellent foul shooter, etc.).

Lebron has always had 3 all-stars on his team during this finals run (with the exception of the first two years when Love didn't make it). When he was playing alongside just one other star in his first Cleveland go around he couldn't make it to the finals. Also while Love is an all-star last year was the first year he had made it in 3 years. Given his lack of defensive play he really has settled into a role as an elite 3 point shooter and above average rebounder without being a complete game changer. It is also a bit puzzling you keep mentioning Thompson as some sort of game changer/significant piece. Thompson is definitely an elite rebounder, but is very far from a complete player. His range is about 6 feet. He his such a bad foul shooter they have to limit his playing time in some situations. He hasn't even topped 30 minutes a game since 2013-2014.

Also I wish you could be consistent with how you view things that happen for Boston and Cleveland. You have spent the better part of this summer (and the last few years) arguing about how role players and depth are not that important because Cleveland has more star power than Boston. Now Cleveland is going to trade its' second best player, most likely for a player that has never made an all-star team (Bledsoe, Rubio, Harris, Murray, Dragic) have  Now all of a sudden you want to talk about the upside of role players like Harris, Murray, Hood, Chandler etc. I mean, be consistent dude...

Boston doesn't have a Lebron James type player though.  They have Kevin Love type players (Love has more all star appearances than Hayward and Thomas combined and as many All NBA appearances as Horford, Thomas, and Hayward combined).  That is what has always set Cleveland apart from Boston, Lebron James.  He is just that good.  You pair James with a very good Love and a bunch of role players, especially complimentary role players, and the Cavs are still better than Boston and its trio of very good but not great players and a bunch of role players.  Unless James takes a pretty significant drop off this year (or Brown or Tatum is on the level of those other guys), the Cavs would beat Boston in a series if they swapped out Irving for a collection of youngish assets as described.

And what sets Golden State apart from the rest of the league is that they have Durant and Curry who are basically on James' tier, plus Thompson and Green who are basically on Love's tier.  Even with all the moves the other Western teams have made, Golden State is still a tremendous favorite, and for good reason, to win not only the West, but the NBA Title again. 

You win titles based on your best players and sadly James and Love collectively still exceed anything the Celtics will stroll out there next year.  The gap would shrink with the elimination of Irving for lesser players, but a shrinking gap is not an eliminated gap either. 

EDIT: and come on, the best player James played with in his first stint in Cleveland was probably Mo Williams, who was a mid-tier starter at best (same with Big Z).  that 2007 team James took to the Finals without James probably would have won no more than 15 games.  They were that bad.  They had no one any where near on the level of Kevin Love. 

[celticsclay]

Now ESPN reporting that Irving blames James camp for leaking trade request. There is no way they will be teammates again.

Yeah, I think we can bank on Kyrie leaving and Lebron staying.

The more interesting conversation is: where will Kyrie go and for what? Or how will the Cavs rebuild on the fly?

I think there's a greater chance that Brad Stevens leaves after next year than Lebron leaving Cleveland.

I think the Cavs have plenty of decent enough options, including Dragic, Winslow, and Adebayo from Miami.  If Minnesota is willing to trade Wiggins, a trade there makes a lot of sense.  Bledsoe and a young player from Phoenix.   Cousins for Irving straight up would be a very interesting trade for both teams (Cleveland could then move Love to acquire a PG).  Rubio and Hood for Irving (gives Utah a chance to stay relevant with Gobert and Irving).  Harris, Murray, and Chandler for Irving (that probably puts Denver into the next tier out west).  That doesn't count a team like Sacramento or Orlando which has a lot of young player assets

Obviously those trades have varying degrees of value, but they all provide at least one young player and a solid PG back in return (except the NO trade) and thus would all keep Cleveland as the clear favorites in the East this year.

I am honestly pretty perplexed that you think a team starting Murray, Jr Smith, Lebron, Love Thompson with Harris and Chandler off the bench is a clear favorite to win the east (maybe switching Harris for Smith in the lineup)... Or how does trading a top 15 NBA player for an NBA average point guard in Rubio and a young shooting guard Hood that is no better than Jr Smith not really hurt the Cavs?

Of all the trades you mentioned, the only one that would keep Cleveland the slim favorites to win the east they already are is the Cousins one.

I think there is a good that by the end of the week when a trade is consummated the Celtics will be slight favorites to win the east this year. Curious how long you are going to keep up this routine:

Lebron James is the best player in the Eastern Conference and is by a pretty wide margin.  He with a team of average NBA players could likely win all but like 3 series in the East, but James isn't alone.  The Cavs still have Love.  They still have Thompson.  They would still have whatever they get back. 

I also assumed they signed Rose, since that looks pretty likely at this point.  So take the Denver trade that would leave Cleveland with a starting 5 of Thompson, Love, James, Harris, and Rose with the main rotation of Murray, Chandler, Smith, Korver, Shumpert, and Frye.  That team is winning the East. 

And you are significantly underrating both Harris and Hood.  Harris, for example, last year was a 15/3/3 player and shot 42% from three.  He is a goodish defender and is just 22 years old.  The Cavs would also be adding Chandler and his 16/6.5/2 to their bench and a rising PG prospect in Murray. 

Now Hood did regress a bit coming back from his injury last year, but he is a good shooter, good defender, and generally a very good all around player.  I'd expect him to be stronger and better this year than last year given he is healthy and players often take some time to really get back (he is also in his mid 20's and only going into year 4).  Rubio is a poor 3 point shooter, but does pretty much everything else you would want from a PG (i.e. excellent passer, great steal generation, superb rebounder (for a pg), excellent foul shooter, etc.).

Lebron has always had 3 all-stars on his team during this finals run (with the exception of the first two years when Love didn't make it). When he was playing alongside just one other star in his first Cleveland go around he couldn't make it to the finals. Also while Love is an all-star last year was the first year he had made it in 3 years. Given his lack of defensive play he really has settled into a role as an elite 3 point shooter and above average rebounder without being a complete game changer. It is also a bit puzzling you keep mentioning Thompson as some sort of game changer/significant piece. Thompson is definitely an elite rebounder, but is very far from a complete player. His range is about 6 feet. He his such a bad foul shooter they have to limit his playing time in some situations. He hasn't even topped 30 minutes a game since 2013-2014.

Also I wish you could be consistent with how you view things that happen for Boston and Cleveland. You have spent the better part of this summer (and the last few years) arguing about how role players and depth are not that important because Cleveland has more star power than Boston. Now Cleveland is going to trade its' second best player, most likely for a player that has never made an all-star team (Bledsoe, Rubio, Harris, Murray, Dragic) have  Now all of a sudden you want to talk about the upside of role players like Harris, Murray, Hood, Chandler etc. I mean, be consistent dude...

Boston doesn't have a Lebron James type player though.  They have Kevin Love type players (Love has more all star appearances than Hayward and Thomas combined and as many All NBA appearances as Horford, Thomas, and Hayward combined).  That is what has always set Cleveland apart from Boston, Lebron James.  He is just that good.  You pair James with a very good Love and a bunch of role players, especially complimentary role players, and the Cavs are still better than Boston and its trio of very good but not great players and a bunch of role players.  Unless James takes a pretty significant drop off this year (or Brown or Tatum is on the level of those other guys), the Cavs would beat Boston in a series if they swapped out Irving for a collection of youngish assets as described.

And what sets Golden State apart from the rest of the league is that they have Durant and Curry who are basically on James' tier, plus Thompson and Green who are basically on Love's tier.  Even with all the moves the other Western teams have made, Golden State is still a tremendous favorite, and for good reason, to win not only the West, but the NBA Title again. 

You win titles based on your best players and sadly James and Love collectively still exceed anything the Celtics will stroll out there next year.  The gap would shrink with the elimination of Irving for lesser players, but a shrinking gap is not an eliminated gap either.

I really hope they end up with Bledsoe or with Harris and Murray. The Celtics would either be a pick em or favorites to win the east in that case. At that point you will stop pretending to understand of lines and odds and go back to talking about Lebron is the greatest thing since Cleveland opened the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or the opening credits of Drew Carey.

Cleveland. Welcome to a decade of irrelevance.