Author Topic: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea  (Read 1227 times)

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Re: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2017, 03:41:21 PM »

Offline max215

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I can't wait until Kyrie is leading his own team to 37 wins every year again. Perhaps then he won't be among the most overrated players in the league.

Again? That would be a non-Lebron career high. His previous best was 33 wins, followed by 24 and 21 (rookie year).

I mean, I would probably do a straight swap of Kyrie for IT because of age and contract situation, but putting him in the same class as AD is laughable.

Haha, I was baking in a small amount of improvement. Unless you're listing recent #1 overall picks, Davis and Irving do not belong in the same sentence.
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Re: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2017, 03:52:41 PM »

Offline Who

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I like it. New Orleans will be hard pressed to get better win-now value than that for AD. I like the idea of building a new team around Kyrie + K-Love + Cousins. That is a tough big three. I love the skill-level and rebounding of Love and Cousins. Plus the dynamic lead guard play from Kyrie. Good mix of talents.

I think New Orleans should do a trade like this. They blew the pooch when they traded for Cousins. Him and AD do not work well enough together. The team is going nowhere. In the time it will take them to adjust and get their team back on track ... AD will have lost his patience and will want to move on elsewhere. So I like the idea of moving AD instead of Cousins cause I do not think NOP can keep AD long term. And I like this trade because I don't think teams will be offering a better win-now package than two all-stars in Kyrie and K-Love.
I like Davis better than Cousins and would be surprised if NOP doesn't feel the same way.

Definitely. I'd much rather have AD than Cousins too. I just think NOP's chances of keeping Cousins are better than their chances of keeping AD which is why I would be open to trading AD and building a new-look team around Cousins.

Hang on ... put this one in too cause their replies are linked.

Expecting Cousins and AD to work well together after a mid-season trade is unrealistic.  They need this offseason to put the two big offense together.  Rondo was a real nice acquisition. 

If they are trading AD, why would they want a win now package in a stacked west?  They have AD for 3 more seasons before his player option year.  Cousins will be a free agent at the end of next season.  Irving and Love will be a free agents after the following season. 

I do not think the AD-Cousins partnership will work in NOP. I consider them a borderline playoff team at best.

So fast forward 12 months. The situation (Cousins/AD) has been lukewarm / mediocre. The team has limited capacity to make major moves going forward given the big contract they just gave to Jrue Holiday alongside their two stars.

So say .... NOP keep Cousins. Sign him to big money. Now the team has no cap space moving forward. They have no trade assets outside of AD / Cousins. They have no young talent coming through. No high draft picks. Limited capacity to improve. Locked in treadmill status as a borderline playoff team.

Anthony Davis now has 2 years left on his contract. He gives NOP another strong year. NOP again finishes as a borderline playoff team. Now AD has only 1 year on his deal. AD has been there what 5 years + 2 years = 7 years now. His team is only a borderline playoff team. He probably hasn't gotten out of the first round. 12 months on his deal. Thinking about whether to re-sign or go elsewhere. Team needs a commitment from him or risk him walking in 12 months time. Does AD stay in that situation? I don't think so.

So say ... road 2 = Cousins leaves end of season. Now NOP only has 12 months to correct their team before AD starts thinking about their future. They have to replace Cousins + improve enough to convince AD that they can be a 50+ win team and compete for Championships in the near future ... and do all this in only 12 months without draft picks or young talent. Only free agency. That is not a friendly road either.

So I think AD is gone. I think he was gone the moment they went after Cousins. NOP have wasted too much valuable time in building a team by trying this Cousins + AD experiment (which I do not believe will work).

--------------------------------------

So back to beginning ...

I think Cousins is a better contract (1 year) than Anthony Davis (3 years) in this situation.

AD has more years on his deal but given the limited options for the team to improve the situation, AD's age and long tenure with the team and strong likelihood of getting fed up of not having the opportunity to compete for a Championship like other stars in the league are ... so I think it is actually the worse situation.

I think NOP's chances of getting Cousins or AD to sign a contract next summer (2018) is much better than in 3 years time. Things are still fairly new and optimistic. The results haven't come in - and they will be bad - and when they do, things will sour.

I like their chance of keeping Cousins next summer after trading for Kyrie for K-Love. I think that team too likely gets caught in treadmill status but it'll take a year or two for the shine to come off those new signings. In the meantime, the team will have moved on from AD, made Cousins their franchise guy, got him a star PG in Kyrie, a star big man who works well alongside him and are promising (empty promises -- but they'll have credit stored up from the Kyrie/Love moves) to keep improving in the future ... I think Cousins re-signs there.

So yeah, I think NOP has a better chance of keeping Cousins than AD past their current deals. I think the reverse would be true if Cousins had the 3 year deal and AD had the 1 year deal. Then AD would be more likely to stay. So in this situation, I view the longer contract as harder to keep ... given the team's limited future.

---------------------------------------------

As for the win-now vs rebuilding --- not everyone wants to lose.

New Orleans has been there for 15 years now. They have made the playoffs only 6 times. Only once have they won a playoff series. 1 playoff series in 15 years!

In a situation & market like that just staying relevant has it's own value. And a Cousins, Kyrie and K-Love trio accomplishes that.

Now maybe they choose to look long term and rebuild properly (with young talent and draft picks). Then again, maybe they don't ... and if they don't, I think a Kyrie + K-Love trade is a very attractive package and probably as good as they can do for AD.

Re: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 05:05:04 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I like it. New Orleans will be hard pressed to get better win-now value than that for AD. I like the idea of building a new team around Kyrie + K-Love + Cousins. That is a tough big three. I love the skill-level and rebounding of Love and Cousins. Plus the dynamic lead guard play from Kyrie. Good mix of talents.

I think New Orleans should do a trade like this. They blew the pooch when they traded for Cousins. Him and AD do not work well enough together. The team is going nowhere. In the time it will take them to adjust and get their team back on track ... AD will have lost his patience and will want to move on elsewhere. So I like the idea of moving AD instead of Cousins cause I do not think NOP can keep AD long term. And I like this trade because I don't think teams will be offering a better win-now package than two all-stars in Kyrie and K-Love.
I like Davis better than Cousins and would be surprised if NOP doesn't feel the same way.

Definitely. I'd much rather have AD than Cousins too. I just think NOP's chances of keeping Cousins are better than their chances of keeping AD which is why I would be open to trading AD and building a new-look team around Cousins.

Hang on ... put this one in too cause their replies are linked.

Expecting Cousins and AD to work well together after a mid-season trade is unrealistic.  They need this offseason to put the two big offense together.  Rondo was a real nice acquisition. 

If they are trading AD, why would they want a win now package in a stacked west?  They have AD for 3 more seasons before his player option year.  Cousins will be a free agent at the end of next season.  Irving and Love will be a free agents after the following season. 

I do not think the AD-Cousins partnership will work in NOP. I consider them a borderline playoff team at best.

So fast forward 12 months. The situation (Cousins/AD) has been lukewarm / mediocre. The team has limited capacity to make major moves going forward given the big contract they just gave to Jrue Holiday alongside their two stars.

So say .... NOP keep Cousins. Sign him to big money. Now the team has no cap space moving forward. They have no trade assets outside of AD / Cousins. They have no young talent coming through. No high draft picks. Limited capacity to improve. Locked in treadmill status as a borderline playoff team.

Anthony Davis now has 2 years left on his contract. He gives NOP another strong year. NOP again finishes as a borderline playoff team. Now AD has only 1 year on his deal. AD has been there what 5 years + 2 years = 7 years now. His team is only a borderline playoff team. He probably hasn't gotten out of the first round. 12 months on his deal. Thinking about whether to re-sign or go elsewhere. Team needs a commitment from him or risk him walking in 12 months time. Does AD stay in that situation? I don't think so.

So say ... road 2 = Cousins leaves end of season. Now NOP only has 12 months to correct their team before AD starts thinking about their future. They have to replace Cousins + improve enough to convince AD that they can be a 50+ win team and compete for Championships in the near future ... and do all this in only 12 months without draft picks or young talent. Only free agency. That is not a friendly road either.

So I think AD is gone. I think he was gone the moment they went after Cousins. NOP have wasted too much valuable time in building a team by trying this Cousins + AD experiment (which I do not believe will work).

--------------------------------------

So back to beginning ...

I think Cousins is a better contract (1 year) than Anthony Davis (3 years) in this situation.

AD has more years on his deal but given the limited options for the team to improve the situation, AD's age and long tenure with the team and strong likelihood of getting fed up of not having the opportunity to compete for a Championship like other stars in the league are ... so I think it is actually the worse situation.

I think NOP's chances of getting Cousins or AD to sign a contract next summer (2018) is much better than in 3 years time. Things are still fairly new and optimistic. The results haven't come in - and they will be bad - and when they do, things will sour.

I like their chance of keeping Cousins next summer after trading for Kyrie for K-Love. I think that team too likely gets caught in treadmill status but it'll take a year or two for the shine to come off those new signings. In the meantime, the team will have moved on from AD, made Cousins their franchise guy, got him a star PG in Kyrie, a star big man who works well alongside him and are promising (empty promises -- but they'll have credit stored up from the Kyrie/Love moves) to keep improving in the future ... I think Cousins re-signs there.

So yeah, I think NOP has a better chance of keeping Cousins than AD past their current deals. I think the reverse would be true if Cousins had the 3 year deal and AD had the 1 year deal. Then AD would be more likely to stay. So in this situation, I view the longer contract as harder to keep ... given the team's limited future.

---------------------------------------------

As for the win-now vs rebuilding --- not everyone wants to lose.

New Orleans has been there for 15 years now. They have made the playoffs only 6 times. Only once have they won a playoff series. 1 playoff series in 15 years!

In a situation & market like that just staying relevant has it's own value. And a Cousins, Kyrie and K-Love trio accomplishes that.

Now maybe they choose to look long term and rebuild properly (with young talent and draft picks). Then again, maybe they don't ... and if they don't, I think a Kyrie + K-Love trade is a very attractive package and probably as good as they can do for AD.

Why don't you think Davis and Cousins will co-exist?

Re: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2017, 06:38:58 PM »

Offline Who

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Why don't you think Davis and Cousins will co-exist?

Anthony Davis is best as a center. Not a power forward.

Anthony Davis is at his best when he is defended by slower bigger defenders where he can use his speed advantage to lethal effect. He is at best defensively when he is able to play around the basket (not the perimeter) where he can use his shot-blocking and defensive quickness on help defense to devastating effect. Again, as a rebounder, Davis best as a center where he closer to the basket and can get more rebounds.

Offensively, defensively and rebounding wise = Davis is far superior as a center than as a PF


They can co-exist but they'll never get the best out of Davis with a center next to him. There are large diminished returns on defense & rebounding. Cousins' high skill-level helps minimize the diminished returns on offense but they are there too.


The Hornets would be far better off with a perimeter star next to Davis rather than a second center who decreases AD's effectiveness.

Re: Non celtics mid season block buster trade idea
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2017, 07:47:08 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Fit wise it's great but NOP gets a little screwed as they could probably get more value for Davis.

NOP:
Kyrie/Whoknows/whoknows/Love/Cousins

Cavs:
Holiday/Shumpert/Smith/James/Davis
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