Author Topic: Could Ainge get in on Irving  (Read 11847 times)

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Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2017, 04:40:55 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I'd rather keep Isaiah Thomas and let Kyrie go to NY (or wherever CLE trades him to.

I get some folks' infatuation with him - he IS a phenomenal talent. But Kyrie needs to go elsewhere and exhibit that talent - NOT BOS.

Isaiah has endeared himself to BOS - to ME, at least....him playing through his sister's passing....him promoting / recruiting top players here (tried to get Love, ALMOST got Durant...got Horford and The Haymaker.)

I'm ecstatic about THIS team going forward. THIS team needs to compete for Banner 18. THIS team has the chemistry in place needed for that.

I believe THIS team - as is - is ready.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2017, 04:59:12 PM »

Offline CELTICSofBOSTON

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I'd rather keep Isaiah Thomas and let Kyrie go to NY (or wherever CLE trades him to.

I get some folks' infatuation with him - he IS a phenomenal talent. But Kyrie needs to go elsewhere and exhibit that talent - NOT BOS.

Isaiah has endeared himself to BOS - to ME, at least....him playing through his sister's passing....him promoting / recruiting top players here (tried to get Love, ALMOST got Durant...got Horford and The Haymaker.)

I'm ecstatic about THIS team going forward. THIS team needs to compete for Banner 18. THIS team has the chemistry in place needed for that.

I believe THIS team - as is - is ready.

I agree that we should keep IT- I love the guy!

 If Kyrie is traded for a inferior player, anything is possible in the East.

Then we just have to win 4 games against the best basketball team of all time.

It's not gonna be easy but I think the group of guys we currently have will give it their all.

I want IT to be on the team that gets banner 18 and I think he can be.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2017, 10:10:59 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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We have no reason to help the Cavs become better.  Once Irving leaves them for a below market value, they are going to be in big trouble and we are poised to take over as the new #1 favorite in the east.  A poor season for Cleveland post-Irving all but guarantees that Lebron takes his talents to the West.  And that's EXACTLY what we want to see happen!

I say let Cleveland twist in the wind.  We don't need any more assets at the cost of helping them right their sinking ship!!

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2017, 11:09:43 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Trade idea (major pieces)

To Cavs: Melo, Ntilikina, Hernangomez, Crowder, 2 Celts non lotto 1sts

To Knicks: Love, IT4

To Celtics:  Irving

I think Irving labelled as a ball hog is blown out of proportions. He has made the finals - mutiple seasons now.  It takes team work to make this happen....he will still take "his shots" but is an alpha dog type player

I think he would gel well with Hayward and Horford. Who can take over in spurts but also dont mind doing the other things while someone else scores the ball


Ainge should consider this type of trade if possible . IT4 is going to be expensive and nobody knows if he walks for nothing. Vs securing a top pg for the next 2 seasons

Nothing personal IT4 but its business and you should be paid what you want in a Knicks uniform

The Knicks gets Love and IT4 for Melo and 2 prospects? What?

Its a 3 way deal

IT4 final year contract

See what Pacers got for PG13

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2017, 01:57:03 AM »

Offline wiley

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I like my deal from a trade thread I started....slightly amended here.

Porzingis to Boston.

Irving, Crowder, Frye, 2018 Celts first, Clippers pick to Knicks

Melo, Marcus Morris, Laker/Sac pick to Cleveland.



Isn't Porzingis worth losing out on Doncic/Bamba etc. if the Laker pick does convey? 
Yes we'd be thinner at wing but not so thin with GH starting at the 3 and Sem/Nader/Tatum to back him up (Brown backing up Smart at 2 guard).  Losing Morris is mainly a Semi promotion I'd think.

Cleveland gets bigger, tougher and slightly deeper, all essential against Golden State.  Melo is the stop gap to what will be either a very good pick or an outstanding pick via Lakers/Kings.

NY should be happy to get out of Melo's contract, pick up a star PG, Crowder and a couple of 1sts.

The deal might not be palatable to Cavs and NY due to not wanting to see Porzingis on the Celtics, but I think it's a deal that helps all three teams...(getting Cavs out of a bind if not totally ideal).



Trade fantasy aside, I'm pretty psyched about the Laker/Kings pick and happy with the team as is....

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2017, 03:51:30 AM »

Offline jyyzzoel

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He doesn't need to get Kyrie. 

Advanced stats/metrics show that Isaiah is overall a better player:

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=501&player_ids%5B%5D=470&season=2016

Adjusted Wins Per 48 takes into account both offense and defense.  IT is better.  End of story.

I heard Kyrie has been getting compared to Stephon Marbury in NBA circles due to his attitude. You don't want that on your team.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2017, 09:49:46 AM »

Offline Irish Stew

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I like my deal from a trade thread I started....slightly amended here.

Porzingis to Boston.

Irving, Crowder, Frye, 2018 Celts first, Clippers pick to Knicks

Melo, Marcus Morris, Laker/Sac pick to Cleveland.



Isn't Porzingis worth losing out on Doncic/Bamba etc. if the Laker pick does convey? 
Yes we'd be thinner at wing but not so thin with GH starting at the 3 and Sem/Nader/Tatum to back him up (Brown backing up Smart at 2 guard).  Losing Morris is mainly a Semi promotion I'd think.

Cleveland gets bigger, tougher and slightly deeper, all essential against Golden State.  Melo is the stop gap to what will be either a very good pick or an outstanding pick via Lakers/Kings.

NY should be happy to get out of Melo's contract, pick up a star PG, Crowder and a couple of 1sts.

The deal might not be palatable to Cavs and NY due to not wanting to see Porzingis on the Celtics, but I think it's a deal that helps all three teams...(getting Cavs out of a bind if not totally ideal).



Trade fantasy aside, I'm pretty psyched about the Laker/Kings pick and happy with the team as is....

Aren't you leaving Cleveland overloaded in the frontcourt and really mediocre in the backcourt? Are you thinking about an additional Love trade for a guard? Also, the Knicks would be swapping one player to build around for another player to build around. I think that they would like to move Melo for a player to add to Porzingis as part of the process to convince him to stay. I'm not sure that Crowder moves the needle much and those picks are not likely to be high value top ten selections.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2017, 11:54:27 AM »

Offline wiley

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I like my deal from a trade thread I started....slightly amended here.

Porzingis to Boston.

Irving, Crowder, Frye, 2018 Celts first, Clippers pick to Knicks

Melo, Marcus Morris, Laker/Sac pick to Cleveland.



Isn't Porzingis worth losing out on Doncic/Bamba etc. if the Laker pick does convey? 
Yes we'd be thinner at wing but not so thin with GH starting at the 3 and Sem/Nader/Tatum to back him up (Brown backing up Smart at 2 guard).  Losing Morris is mainly a Semi promotion I'd think.

Cleveland gets bigger, tougher and slightly deeper, all essential against Golden State.  Melo is the stop gap to what will be either a very good pick or an outstanding pick via Lakers/Kings.

NY should be happy to get out of Melo's contract, pick up a star PG, Crowder and a couple of 1sts.

The deal might not be palatable to Cavs and NY due to not wanting to see Porzingis on the Celtics, but I think it's a deal that helps all three teams...(getting Cavs out of a bind if not totally ideal).



Trade fantasy aside, I'm pretty psyched about the Laker/Kings pick and happy with the team as is....

Aren't you leaving Cleveland overloaded in the frontcourt and really mediocre in the backcourt? Are you thinking about an additional Love trade for a guard? Also, the Knicks would be swapping one player to build around for another player to build around. I think that they would like to move Melo for a player to add to Porzingis as part of the process to convince him to stay. I'm not sure that Crowder moves the needle much and those picks are not likely to be high value top ten selections.

A little overloaded but Morris would be a big upgrade over Frye as far as defense I think.  They have to contend with Draymond Green and Durant.  When GS uses Draymond at center the Cave could put Morris on him and Lebron on Durant for stretches while Love sits.  At other times they can play Love at center, Lebron and Morris and 3 and 4.  Melo on the wing may get burned by smaller guards now and then but he'd also be a matchup nightmare for almost all of them.  They still have JR Smith at wing too.  Overall yes, their backcourt would be mediocre, but with Melo and Lebron able to act as PG's it's probably ok...D Rose and Calderon are adequate....they can add a better backup PG if they want with another trade.

The Knicks I think will be lucky to get a Crowder level player plus two firsts for Melo at his age and more importantly with his contract.  The reason I gave the Knicks so much for Melo is I'm assuming that Porzingis for Kyrie tilts against the Knicks slightly....in perception at least.  Kyrie could be getting underrated in that one for one concept.  He's only 25.   But yes, for the Knicks it would be partly about getting out from Melo's contract and starting fresh. 

If the Knicks do need a bit more then Boston gives the Memphis pick instead of next year's first.  More than that and I'd say no deal and let's hope for gold via Laker/Sac pick. 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 12:06:36 PM by wiley »

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »

Offline chambers

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the disrespect IT gets on this blog is astounding.

I hear ya but logically Danny has to make a call to the Cavs.
Irving is a brat, but he's just turned 25 years old and is locked up until at least 2019.

He's arguably going to keep getting better too.
Slightly less impactful offensively than IT but less of a defensive liability.
Dude has an enormous ego though.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2017, 03:39:48 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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the disrespect IT gets on this blog is astounding.

I hear ya but logically Danny has to make a call to the Cavs.
Irving is a brat, but he's just turned 25 years old and is locked up until at least 2019.

He's arguably going to keep getting better too.
Slightly less impactful offensively than IT but less of a defensive liability.
Dude has an enormous ego though.

I can't agree with this. Irving is one of the most unstoppable offensive players in the game and hasn't even peaked considering age. Thomas is also dealing with a hip injury.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2017, 04:39:22 PM »

Offline byennie

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the disrespect IT gets on this blog is astounding.

I hear ya but logically Danny has to make a call to the Cavs.
Irving is a brat, but he's just turned 25 years old and is locked up until at least 2019.

He's arguably going to keep getting better too.
Slightly less impactful offensively than IT but less of a defensive liability.
Dude has an enormous ego though.

I can't agree with this. Irving is one of the most unstoppable offensive players in the game and hasn't even peaked considering age. Thomas is also dealing with a hip injury.

Except, he's not. You know he took more shots than IT last year but scored 4 fewer points every night, despite getting less defensive attention?

Don't get me wrong, he's super talented and could still improve, but no sane person can look at last year's numbers and conclude that IT wasn't the better offensive player or that Irving was "unstoppable" unless you think there are 25+ unstoppable guys in the league.

Irving was 11th in the league in scoring, but all 10 guys ahead of him were more efficient, and something like 25 of the top 30 were, too (exceptions: Melo, Booker, Wiggins, and a few other pretty close).

He's a good player, obviously, and he's only 25, but I don't see any great indication he'll ever be better than a top-20 scorer with lazy defense. He's played 400+ games and is exactly the player he was 5 years ago: big ego inefficient player with tons of talent.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2017, 05:02:25 PM »

Offline moiso

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Great post Byennie and TP.  I think some people have a slightly inflated of Irving vs Thomas because Irving has had bigger stages to have his scoring outbursts on.  Also his spectacular dribbling and moves.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2017, 08:47:29 PM »

Offline chambers

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the disrespect IT gets on this blog is astounding.

I hear ya but logically Danny has to make a call to the Cavs.
Irving is a brat, but he's just turned 25 years old and is locked up until at least 2019.

He's arguably going to keep getting better too.
Slightly less impactful offensively than IT but less of a defensive liability.
Dude has an enormous ego though.

I can't agree with this. Irving is one of the most unstoppable offensive players in the game and hasn't even peaked considering age. Thomas is also dealing with a hip injury.
Isaiah is literally a top 3 offensive player in the nba. He's better than Kyrie and it's really not close. There are very few players in the world that are elite in all three categories of pick n roll, dribble hand off scoring and three point shooting and getting to the line.
If isaiah thomas was Kyrie's height he'd be seriously challenging Harden/Durant/Curry/Lebron because he wouldn't be an enormous defensive liability.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2017, 10:42:20 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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IT for Kyrie is bad to me on all sorts of levels: chemistry-killing risk, lack of loyalty perception around the league since IT is our best recruiter and face of the franchise, all for a marginal, if any appreciation in talent and a better (only in the short-term) contract.

Forgetting all that, which is difficult to do, one real potential negative of trading IT and Crowder and whatever else for Irving is that both IT and JC not only make the Cavs better short-term for this year, but could keep Bron Bron in the East.

No thanks. Let Bron Bron and the Cavs sort out this mess that they have made together. Let them get a marginal return for Kyrie, hopefully. If they get a good return, please don't let it be us who gives it to them and lets Bron Bron and company succeed, either short-term or  long-term.

Re: Could Ainge get in on Irving
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2017, 07:42:27 PM »

Offline celticpride1

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So I guess I was right on this call back on July 21 I posted should ainge get in on this. I am shocked