Who are your top 5 players 26 and under?

[green_bballers13]

Not sure why we need to pick an arbitrary age limit.  For example, I'd take 27 year old Klay Thompson over Kyrie Irving and be just fine even if Thompson started his fall a bit earlier than Irving.  Same thing with Cousins who just turned 27 a couple of weeks ago. 

I'd consider a player like Wiggins who isn't as good now, but has performed at a better rate than Irving did at similar career points.  If I thought Gobert had an offensive jump in him, I'd take him in a second over Irving (again if I thought he had the offensive potential, which I just don't follow the Jazz enough to know if he does). 

If I was watching a guy like Simmons every day in practice, I wouldn't hesitate to take him if he showed 1st ballot HOF type talent.  Same thing with Embiid if I really knew of his health condition.

So effectively, you would take young guys that haven't proven they can stay healthy, let alone win basketball games, over guys that have proven to win basketball games?

Kawhi
AD
Giannis
Kyrie
Wall
KAT
Porzingis

It seemed pretty obvious that Kawhi, Giannis, AD, and KAT were everyone's top 4.  That didn't need discussion.  I was talking about players I'd take over Irving at 5, which I thought was fairly obvious if you actually read what I wrote (you know with me constantly mentioning Irving).  Jokic was mentioned so I didn't see the need to bring him up again, though I'd probably take Jokic over Irving.

I don't like Porzingis all that much.  I don't foresee a long super productive career from him.  I'd definitely take Irving over the Zinger.

Interesting- I think the Zinger is the closest thing to Dirk, who by most accounts has been a good NBA player.

All of these players are good, and so the rankings are going to be more subjective than objective. I was just caught off guard by the inclusion of Simmons and Embiid. Heck, we might as well include Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, and Zion Williamson, who have also achieved very little to nothing in the NBA.

[keevsnick]

FYI, John Wall actually turns 27 today.

[johnnygreen]

1. Kawhi Leonard - Arguably the best player in the league.
2. Kyrie Irving - an elite player, who plays arguably the most important position in basketball today. Would have been #3 before the trade, but any Celtics player gets preferential treatment from me.
3. Anthony Davis - I know I'll get killed for putting him at #3, but something seems off. I mentioned this in another thread, but how can arguably a top 5 player in the league only take his team to the playoffs once in five years? I'm not asking him to win the title, but to just make the playoffs.
4. Karl-Anthony Towns - All around awesome skill set.
5. Kristaps Porzingas -  the next generation big man.

Joel Embiid - has only played in 31 games in three years. Thanks for coming.
Giannis Antetokounmpo - I know he puts up great numbers, but I don't know if you can build an offense around him. He seems more like a player who thrives with getting garbage baskets. As a Celtics fan, I never thought, how are we going to stop the Greek Freak and win this game.

I had to edit my initial list, as I thought the list was for players 25 and under, so I left off Kawhi.

Completely agree about AD (and maybe even KAT)- how many times have transcendent talents like Lebron, KD, Westbrook, Curry, etc etc missed the playoffs? Now, I understand that many of the top players in the league have had other good players on their teams, but come on man. The Pelicans have been terrible with AD around!

Can anyone come up with a transcendent player of Anthony Davis' talent, who lead their team to only one playoff appearance in their first five seasons? I also think it's almost a given that the Pelicans miss the playoffs again this upcoming season. A transcendent player like Davis should at least take his team to the playoffs every year.

[Moranis]

Not sure why we need to pick an arbitrary age limit.  For example, I'd take 27 year old Klay Thompson over Kyrie Irving and be just fine even if Thompson started his fall a bit earlier than Irving.  Same thing with Cousins who just turned 27 a couple of weeks ago. 

I'd consider a player like Wiggins who isn't as good now, but has performed at a better rate than Irving did at similar career points.  If I thought Gobert had an offensive jump in him, I'd take him in a second over Irving (again if I thought he had the offensive potential, which I just don't follow the Jazz enough to know if he does). 

If I was watching a guy like Simmons every day in practice, I wouldn't hesitate to take him if he showed 1st ballot HOF type talent.  Same thing with Embiid if I really knew of his health condition.

So effectively, you would take young guys that haven't proven they can stay healthy, let alone win basketball games, over guys that have proven to win basketball games?

Kawhi
AD
Giannis
Kyrie
Wall
KAT
Porzingis

It seemed pretty obvious that Kawhi, Giannis, AD, and KAT were everyone's top 4.  That didn't need discussion.  I was talking about players I'd take over Irving at 5, which I thought was fairly obvious if you actually read what I wrote (you know with me constantly mentioning Irving).  Jokic was mentioned so I didn't see the need to bring him up again, though I'd probably take Jokic over Irving.

I don't like Porzingis all that much.  I don't foresee a long super productive career from him.  I'd definitely take Irving over the Zinger.

Interesting- I think the Zinger is the closest thing to Dirk, who by most accounts has been a good NBA player.

All of these players are good, and so the rankings are going to be more subjective than objective. I was just caught off guard by the inclusion of Simmons and Embiid. Heck, we might as well include Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, and Zion Williamson, who have also achieved very little to nothing in the NBA.

why?  I wasn't even the first to mention Embiid in this thread.  I was the first with Simmons, but again I haven't been watching him every day, but I just think he has such a unique skill set that he could be an absolute monster. 

Irving is what he is.  He will likely get better, but he isn't going to all of a sudden become John Stockton passing the ball and if he even ever gets called a bad defender it will be an immense improvement.  He is probably the best pure scorer in the league, but NBA history is filled with superb scorers that don't do much else that never have great team success when they are the leader/best player on a team.  If I'm starting a franchise, a guy like Irving would be down the list for the more complete players or the players more likely to lead a championship level team.  Irving is just pretty limited in the type of players that you surround him with.  He has to be paired with great defenders.  He has to be paired with solid all around players, whereas a guy like Giannis, Kawhi, AD, etc. you can get away with much more flawed players around them and still have success (not necessarily a title, but probably a playoff level team - think Lebron in Cleveland the first time).  That is why guys like Embiid and Simmons are intriguing in this sort of thing because they have such immense potential to be great 2 way players (it is also why Ball, Fultz and Tatum I would never even look at at this point in their careers). 

[green_bballers13]

Not sure why we need to pick an arbitrary age limit.  For example, I'd take 27 year old Klay Thompson over Kyrie Irving and be just fine even if Thompson started his fall a bit earlier than Irving.  Same thing with Cousins who just turned 27 a couple of weeks ago. 

I'd consider a player like Wiggins who isn't as good now, but has performed at a better rate than Irving did at similar career points.  If I thought Gobert had an offensive jump in him, I'd take him in a second over Irving (again if I thought he had the offensive potential, which I just don't follow the Jazz enough to know if he does). 

If I was watching a guy like Simmons every day in practice, I wouldn't hesitate to take him if he showed 1st ballot HOF type talent.  Same thing with Embiid if I really knew of his health condition.

So effectively, you would take young guys that haven't proven they can stay healthy, let alone win basketball games, over guys that have proven to win basketball games?

Kawhi
AD
Giannis
Kyrie
Wall
KAT
Porzingis

It seemed pretty obvious that Kawhi, Giannis, AD, and KAT were everyone's top 4.  That didn't need discussion.  I was talking about players I'd take over Irving at 5, which I thought was fairly obvious if you actually read what I wrote (you know with me constantly mentioning Irving).  Jokic was mentioned so I didn't see the need to bring him up again, though I'd probably take Jokic over Irving.

I don't like Porzingis all that much.  I don't foresee a long super productive career from him.  I'd definitely take Irving over the Zinger.

Interesting- I think the Zinger is the closest thing to Dirk, who by most accounts has been a good NBA player.

All of these players are good, and so the rankings are going to be more subjective than objective. I was just caught off guard by the inclusion of Simmons and Embiid. Heck, we might as well include Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, and Zion Williamson, who have also achieved very little to nothing in the NBA.

why?  I wasn't even the first to mention Embiid in this thread.  I was the first with Simmons, but again I haven't been watching him every day, but I just think he has such a unique skill set that he could be an absolute monster. 

Irving is what he is.  He will likely get better, but he isn't going to all of a sudden become John Stockton passing the ball and if he even ever gets called a bad defender it will be an immense improvement.  He is probably the best pure scorer in the league, but NBA history is filled with superb scorers that don't do much else that never have great team success when they are the leader/best player on a team.  If I'm starting a franchise, a guy like Irving would be down the list for the more complete players or the players more likely to lead a championship level team.  Irving is just pretty limited in the type of players that you surround him with.  He has to be paired with great defenders.  He has to be paired with solid all around players, whereas a guy like Giannis, Kawhi, AD, etc. you can get away with much more flawed players around them and still have success (not necessarily a title, but probably a playoff level team - think Lebron in Cleveland the first time).  That is why guys like Embiid and Simmons are intriguing in this sort of thing because they have such immense potential to be great 2 way players (it is also why Ball, Fultz and Tatum I would never even look at at this point in their careers).

Maybe I wasn't caught-off guard. I think I just disagree with the analysis, which is OK. Doesn't mean I'm right or you are right- just different perspectives.

I was thinking about players that have a) played in the NBA, b) had success in the NBA, and c) are not going to struggle with injuries (sorry to say- Embiid's prospects to stay healthy don't seem that hot).

I assumed that the question read "NBA players" (as opposed to NFL or college bball). Maybe I shouldn't have made this assumption. To broaden the focus out, I'm high on:

-AD
-KAT
-Jokic
-Embiid (only if he stays healthy, a big IF)
-Bagley
-Tatum (the NBA is mostly an offensive game- I don't see people complaining too much about Harden/Westbook. I think Tatum has the IT factor to become the next Pierce)
-Deandre Ayton
-Mo Bamba
-Zion Williamson
-Bol Bol

[Pucaccia]

K. Irving
M. Smart
J. Tatum
J. Brown
S. Ojele/Yabusele - tied

[droopdog7]

Are we talking top five player right now?  If so, then Kyrie definitely in the top 5.   I don't think that Towns, Giannis, and Embid are better than Kyrie right at this moment.  If you mean top five talent, then it gets trickier.

[Moranis]

Are we talking top five player right now?  If so, then Kyrie definitely in the top 5.   I don't think that Towns, Giannis, and Embid are better than Kyrie right at this moment.  If you mean top five talent, then it gets trickier.

the opening thread says the top 5 to be the cornerstone of your franchise for the next 10 years.

[mmmmm]

Totally arbitrary top-9
1. Kawhi Leonard
2. Anthony Davis
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo
4. Karl Anthony Towns
5. Nikola Jokic
6. Rudy Gobert
7. John Wall
8. Kyrie Irving
9. Kristaps Porzingis

After that, it gets pretty fuzzy, where one can argue over disparate guys like Otto Porter, Steven Adams, Myles Turner, etc.

The age cut-off of 26 years old is a bit arbitrary.  Add a few months to it and you have to include guys like Draymond Green, Damian Lillard & Gordon Hayward, all of whom would rank pretty high on my personal list, bumping several names off that list.

Otherwise, I'm very comfortable listing Jokic in my top-5.  He's neck-and-neck with KAT in my book.

[johnnygreen]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Devin Booker. He was my #5 when I thought the list was for players 25 and under. Obviously, a 26 year old Kawhi had to be #1 for players 26 and under, which bumped booker off my list.

Obviously, it's just me, but I think the Greek Freak is vastly overrated. Yes, he's a very good player and would love him on the Celtics. However, there is zero chance that I would take him over Devin Booker, if given the option. Seriously, does anyone even need to bother defending Giannis outside of 15 feet? Whenever I have seen the Bucks play, he basically just disappears on his own, and I forget that he is even playing.

[Bucketgetter]

So building for the next 10 years around 1 guy that is 26 and under?

For one thing, John Wall is 27, so that clears that dilemma up for you. But I’m definitely taking Embiid over Kyrie, as well as the other 4 you mentioned.

Crazy to take a guy who doesn't play if you have a choice.  As amazing as he is, how many games has Embiid helped Philly win?  Can't be many, he's only played in 31 games in 3 years.

We’re taking guys for how we think they’ll do in the future, not the past. Of course Kyrie has one of the best resumes so far, but he’s either already peaked or close to his peak. Embiid has only scratched the surface, and even in 31 games last year, he was absolutely dominant and turned that trash 76ers squad into a .500 team. Obviously if Embiid’s career ends up being ruined by injuries, I would rather have taken Kyrie. But I think it’s safe to say, if Embiid stays relatively healthy for the rest of his career, he will end up being better than Kyrie.

[A Future of Stevens]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Devin Booker. He was my #5 when I thought the list was for players 25 and under. Obviously, a 26 year old Kawhi had to be #1 for players 26 and under, which bumped booker off my list.

Obviously, it's just me, but I think the Greek Freak is vastly overrated. Yes, he's a very good player and would love him on the Celtics. However, there is zero chance that I would take him over Devin Booker, if given the option. Seriously, does anyone even need to bother defending Giannis outside of 15 feet? Whenever I have seen the Bucks play, he basically just disappears on his own, and I forget that he is even playing.

The argument becomes that if giannis gets to even a "bad 3pt %" he will be a top 5 player in the league. What is he? He is a 6'11 point forward with a 7'5 wingspan who loves to play defense. You can already see his alpha starting to come out, and he is incredibly young. His skill with a basketball is unheralded at his size (well except durant), and he can honestly only get better from here.  He is basically a positional mismatch at whatever position you play him as, and his shot isn't broken. He needs repetition.

He has put up 23 ppg and 9 rebounds at the age of 22. Not to mention the 5 assists. All while above 50% from the field. The kid is a stud. And unlike some other young players, he is basically playing 80 games a year.

[Moranis]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Devin Booker. He was my #5 when I thought the list was for players 25 and under. Obviously, a 26 year old Kawhi had to be #1 for players 26 and under, which bumped booker off my list.

Obviously, it's just me, but I think the Greek Freak is vastly overrated. Yes, he's a very good player and would love him on the Celtics. However, there is zero chance that I would take him over Devin Booker, if given the option. Seriously, does anyone even need to bother defending Giannis outside of 15 feet? Whenever I have seen the Bucks play, he basically just disappears on his own, and I forget that he is even playing.

The argument becomes that if giannis gets to even a "bad 3pt %" he will be a top 5 player in the league. What is he? He is a 6'11 point forward with a 7'5 wingspan who loves to play defense. You can already see his alpha starting to come out, and he is incredibly young. His skill with a basketball is unheralded at his size (well except durant), and he can honestly only get better from here.  He is basically a positional mismatch at whatever position you play him as, and his shot isn't broken. He needs repetition.

He has put up 23 ppg and 9 rebounds at the age of 22. Not to mention the 5 assists. All while above 50% from the field. The kid is a stud. And unlike some other young players, he is basically playing 80 games a year.

Isn't Giannis the first person since they started keeping track of blocks and steals to finish in the top 20 in total points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals in the same season?  I think I recall reading that stat (I know he did it, just not sure if he is the first guy to ever do it, again since they started keeping track of blocks and steals).  That is from a guy in his 4th year in which he turned 22 during the season.  Just absolutely amazing. 

[A Future of Stevens]

I'm a little surprised that no one has mentioned Devin Booker. He was my #5 when I thought the list was for players 25 and under. Obviously, a 26 year old Kawhi had to be #1 for players 26 and under, which bumped booker off my list.

Obviously, it's just me, but I think the Greek Freak is vastly overrated. Yes, he's a very good player and would love him on the Celtics. However, there is zero chance that I would take him over Devin Booker, if given the option. Seriously, does anyone even need to bother defending Giannis outside of 15 feet? Whenever I have seen the Bucks play, he basically just disappears on his own, and I forget that he is even playing.

The argument becomes that if giannis gets to even a "bad 3pt %" he will be a top 5 player in the league. What is he? He is a 6'11 point forward with a 7'5 wingspan who loves to play defense. You can already see his alpha starting to come out, and he is incredibly young. His skill with a basketball is unheralded at his size (well except durant), and he can honestly only get better from here.  He is basically a positional mismatch at whatever position you play him as, and his shot isn't broken. He needs repetition.

He has put up 23 ppg and 9 rebounds at the age of 22. Not to mention the 5 assists. All while above 50% from the field. The kid is a stud. And unlike some other young players, he is basically playing 80 games a year.

Isn't Giannis the first person since they started keeping track of blocks and steals to finish in the top 20 in total points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals in the same season?  I think I recall reading that stat (I know he did it, just not sure if he is the first guy to ever do it, again since they started keeping track of blocks and steals).  That is from a guy in his 4th year in which he turned 22 during the season.  Just absolutely amazing.

I have seen that. All I know is that alot of the newer stats you see about overall impact in all statistical aspects of the game basically have prime LeBron and giannis at 22 as the only 2 to ever do it haha.

It's scary to think about what he will be like at 27.

One of my favorite quotes about Giannis is from Shaq. "The kid will be amazing once he slowly realizes the normal limitations of the game don't apply to him." He is a stud.

[Androslav]

Since they are the only 2 guards below 26 y/o in this conversation, here are some of their defensive stats from the last season. Both of their clubs were pretty poor defensive teams (28nd & 22th)

Iso defense
Booker: 1,13 PPP (8,4% percentile)
Kyrie:    1,08 PPP (12,3%)

PNR BH
Booker: 0,81 PPP (62,4%)
Kyrie:    0,96 PPP (18,7%)

Spot up
Booker: 1,07 PPP (31,5%)
Kyrie:    1,14 PPP (18,3%)

Spot up
Booker: 1,07 PPP (32,7%)
Kyrie:    1,14 PPP (18,3%)

Handoff
Booker: 0,85 PPP (18,7%)
Kyrie:    1,14 PPP (14,4%)

The stats suggest that both are below avg. defenders, but Booker showed some promise defending a guard that is creating with a big (PNR BH 62,4% percentile, Handoff 57,2%) while Kyrie truly dies on these plays involving screens (PNR BH 18,7%, Handoff 14,4%)

Booker is showing a bit more upside on the, for both players critically flawed, defensive end. It surprised me a bit.