Author Topic: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics  (Read 20704 times)

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Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2017, 11:59:43 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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http://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/888047229034012672

Jay King is saying that sources are reporting that Yab is still in Boston's plans.

And Adam Kaufman says Larkin is just a camp invite, so it looks like that still works

Quote from: Adam Kaufman
#Celtics have plenty of guard depth. Shane Larkin's a training camp invite, likely little else. He'll get a cursory look, wind up elsewhere.

I do question the "plenty of guard depth", though

Camp invites can still come with a good chunk of guaranteed money, however. 

That said, and someone like Dario or Greece needs to correct me, wasn't there an issue with Larkin's Spanish team matching his offer sheet, but not having the money to actually pay him?  I feel I remember reading about that last week.  If so, I suppose it's possible he was looking for a training camp deal so he could get out of that Euro situation, and then sign on again somewhere if he's cut.

Yes, Salt, here I am.

In the Spanish Corrupt Basketball League, there is something similar to RFA in the NBA. When the end of a season comes and many players finish their contracts, teams can elect some of them as "eligible to match offers".

So, Baskonia put Shane Larkin and Adam Hanga on that list. Barcelona agreed to terms with both players, and reagarding Larkin it was something like 6 million (€) for two seasons. On the last day to match, Baskonia did it for both players, but with the idea of negociating with Barcelona some money to let them go, I mean to keep control of them. Supposedly, Baskonia can't afford these two contracts and that's why this is a vicious, tainted system.

In any case (staying in Baskonia or going to Barça) he had 6 million guaranteed for two seasons with a stellar role in one of Euroleague powerhorses. So it wouldn't have sense for him to renounce this money just for a training camp invitation.

I hope I've explained it well.

BTW, I've read Boston top newspaper reportes stating that BOTH Theis and Larkin have this upcoming season minimum contract guarantees. So this means three things:

1. We have a trade in mind.
2. We stash Yabusele again. Don't think it's the most probable scenario.
3. We'll waive a guaranteed contract after training camp, like last years.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2017, 12:09:17 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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http://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/888047229034012672

Jay King is saying that sources are reporting that Yab is still in Boston's plans.

And Adam Kaufman says Larkin is just a camp invite, so it looks like that still works

Quote from: Adam Kaufman
#Celtics have plenty of guard depth. Shane Larkin's a training camp invite, likely little else. He'll get a cursory look, wind up elsewhere.

I do question the "plenty of guard depth", though

Camp invites can still come with a good chunk of guaranteed money, however. 

That said, and someone like Dario or Greece needs to correct me, wasn't there an issue with Larkin's Spanish team matching his offer sheet, but not having the money to actually pay him?  I feel I remember reading about that last week.  If so, I suppose it's possible he was looking for a training camp deal so he could get out of that Euro situation, and then sign on again somewhere if he's cut.

Yes, Salt, here I am.

In the Spanish Corrupt Basketball League, there is something similar to RFA in the NBA. When the end of a season comes and many players finish their contracts, teams can elect some of them as "eligible to match offers".

So, Baskonia put Shane Larkin and Adam Hanga on that list. Barcelona agreed to terms with both players, and reagarding Larkin it was something like 6 million (€) for two seasons. On the last day to match, Baskonia did it for both players, but with the idea of negociating with Barcelona some money to let them go, I mean to keep control of them. Supposedly, Baskonia can't afford these two contracts and that's why this is a vicious, tainted system.

In any case (staying in Baskonia or going to Barça) he had 6 million guaranteed for two seasons with a stellar role in one of Euroleague powerhorses. So it wouldn't have sense for him to renounce this money just for a training camp invitation.

I hope I've explained it well.

BTW, I've read Boston top newspaper reportes stating that BOTH Theis and Larkin have this upcoming season minimum contract guarantees. So this means three things:

1. We have a trade in mind.
2. We stash Yabusele again. Don't think it's the most probable scenario.
3. We'll waive a guaranteed contract after training camp, like last years.
IT is not ready we need a guard we keep Larkin cut someone or Rozier is going to be traded for a big, IMO. Larkin works hard and he is professional leader too. I see nothing but positives.
"People look at players, watch them dribble between their legs and they say, 'There's a superstar.'  Well John Havlicek is a superstar, and most of the others are figments of writers' imagination."
--Jerry West, on John Havlicek

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2017, 12:12:30 PM »

Offline The One

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIENJOl6pJ4


Don't sleep on these highlights!

Larkin with the Brexit moves!!

I can just see Shane posting up IT in practice!!!

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2017, 12:12:41 PM »

Offline kmart12

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So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?
The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

I still don't understand how people are convinced that Marcus Morris is a starting caliber PF (or PF in general). Either people haven't seen him play, haven't looked at his prior statistics, or are confused about which twin Danny traded for. And yeah, we're not scaring anybody with a frontcourt of Al and Baynes, although it's certainly more appealing that Al and Amir.

Nobody thinks that he's a traditional PF.  But in today's switch-everything NBA, he absolutely can start there (especially if he's played next to another SF/PF like Crowder).  Against a team like the Pelicans you'd have to throw in Baynes (or maybe Zizic eventually), but against most teams IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford would be fine.  Yes, we'd have occasional trouble guarding bigger PFs, but those PFs would have just as much trouble covering Morris and Crowder out on the perimeter

All that is well and good but that's not what I'm talking about. As you explained, the NBA's evolved and traditional power forwards pretty much don't exist, but that doesn't answer the need for players to rebound and protect the rim in a way that is at least similar to what 4's and 5's are expected to do. To rely on a guy who averages 4 rebounds and 0 blocks a game next to a guy (i.e., Horford) who is a mediocre rebounder and average shotblocker is suboptimal at best. I'm not even that concerned about defense with that lineup as much as I am about how poorly we're going to rebound (again).

We'll (have to) be a gang rebounding team.  The team was at its best in the playoffs with Green replacing Amir in the starting lineup, and if you replace Green with Morris it's an improvement in rebounding.  We're not gonna be a team with a 10+ rebound guy, but we'll have a few guys averaging 6+, a very spread out floor, and an extremely efficient offense.  The idea (and it certainly worked in the playoffs last year) is that the benefits to your offense outweigh the poor rebounding. As for shot blocking, having guys that can defend well after switching on picks outweighs that.

I don't think anybody has said that Morris is the perfect PF for us, or should ever be used without a real big out there, but he's definitely a better fit in the starting lineup than Baynes (especially because his 15-20 mpg should be used when Horford is off the floor)
Speaking of gang rebounding, let's not forget that Avery Bradley was the best rebounder on the team last season and now can be considered one of the better rebounding guards in the league.

It is a fallacy to think that height alone is the key to rebounding.  While height is obviously helpful, good rebounders understand the key is positioning and blocking out.

TP - What you said about height and rebounding is what's frustrating when people see a player sub 6'8" with a unique skillset and immediately refer to him as the next Draymond or Barkley (thankfully, Draymond replaced Barkley in most modern comparisons). I don't agree with the "positionless" theory that CBS preaches, but I believe that size has become more and more irrelevant to team success throughout the years.

That said, guys like Morris and Crowder are not rebounders and haven't been throughout their careers. They may look the part but they don't get the job done. We can talk about the success in the playoffs but only up to a point; let's not forget that teams like Cleveland have players like Love and Thompson to go along with LeBron or GSW having Green and Durant to go with Curry. We don't have a player capable of rebounding at that level on our entire roster.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2017, 12:21:01 PM »

Offline The One

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If you want to re-familiarize yourself with "SugaShane":

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/8/4401366/shane-larkin-scouting-report-nba-draft-2013

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1691814-shane-larkin-primer-everything-you-need-to-know-about-newest-dallas-maverick

"-Shane Larkin's value proposition at the next level is simple, he created more combined points on the pick and roll for himself and his teammates last season than any prospect in the country at 14.3 points per-game. Playing in a pick and roll heavy, pro-style offense, Larkin kept defenses honest with his jump shot, which ranks second most efficient in this group at 1.137 points per-shot, and showed excellent command of the ball, turning the ball over on just 11.3% of his possessions creating in the two-man game. While scouts will scrutinize his size, his efficiency as a scorer and prolific shot creating ability seem tailor made for the NBA game. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shane-Larkin-40769/ ©DraftExpress"


Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2017, 12:23:04 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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As usual someone knows something we don't.

I have a feeling IT isn't going to be with us for the season opening.

Because with a healthy IT the Celtics should be content with Smart as a backup PG. With Smart as the starter, that leaves Rozier as the teams backup PG. Not so good.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2017, 12:26:16 PM »

Offline oldtype

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To be honest I think it makes sense to stash Yabu an extra year and bring Larkin in as end-of-bench guard depth. Yabu will get almost no minutes this year anyway, and it may be good for him to take a more gradual step up by going to a top team in Europe.

It would take some negotiation with him and his agent, but I'm sure part of the reason we drafted him in the first place was because he wasn't completely adverse to a two-year stash.


Great words from a great man

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2017, 12:37:02 PM »

Offline Celtics978Fan

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Honestly is a horrible signing, considering Derrick Rose is looking to sign with the Cavaliers for 2.5 million.  I would rather pay an extra million to have Rose come off the bench.  Plays less minutes, had a good year last year, less likely to be injuried off the bench.  Would have been a great signing to give us scoring off the bench, plus of Thomas isn't 100 we'd have a true backup.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2017, 12:41:37 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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We needed a back up pg. We only had smart and rozier which is very bad depth. He has a very similar game to IT. Not sure what the issue is.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2017, 12:42:51 PM »

Online BitterJim

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Honestly is a horrible signing, considering Derrick Rose is looking to sign with the Cavaliers for 2.5 million.  I would rather pay an extra million to have Rose come off the bench.  Plays less minutes, had a good year last year, less likely to be injuried off the bench.  Would have been a great signing to give us scoring off the bench, plus of Thomas isn't 100 we'd have a true backup.

We can't pay him $2.5 million.  We could offer him the minimum for a player with his experience, which would be ~$2.1 million, but we can't offer him $2.5, never mind the fact that he's probably taking a discount to play on the Cavs (where he'll also have a larger role than he likely would here). It doesn't matter if he's worth an extra million
I'm bitter.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2017, 12:43:25 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Honestly is a horrible signing, considering Derrick Rose is looking to sign with the Cavaliers for 2.5 million.  I would rather pay an extra million to have Rose come off the bench.  Plays less minutes, had a good year last year, less likely to be injuried off the bench.  Would have been a great signing to give us scoring off the bench, plus of Thomas isn't 100 we'd have a true backup.

The question is... Can we?  ::)

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2017, 12:51:50 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Derrick rose isn't reliable Nor Coming for the Minimum. We needed a replacement for jackson. We got it

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2017, 12:54:34 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Honestly is a horrible signing, considering Derrick Rose is looking to sign with the Cavaliers for 2.5 million.  I would rather pay an extra million to have Rose come off the bench.  Plays less minutes, had a good year last year, less likely to be injuried off the bench.  Would have been a great signing to give us scoring off the bench, plus of Thomas isn't 100 we'd have a true backup.

Derrick Rose makes teams worse, not better. Does it not tell you anything that in a summer Jeff Teague got 3 years and 58 million, Jrue Holiday got 5 years and 126 million, George Hill got 3 years and 57 million, Rose would get 2.5 million at age 28?

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2017, 12:58:52 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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As usual someone knows something we don't.

I have a feeling IT isn't going to be with us for the season opening.

Because with a healthy IT the Celtics should be content with Smart as a backup PG. With Smart as the starter, that leaves Rozier as the teams backup PG. Not so good.

Yeah I have a bad feeling about this, too. I'm not sure if it's IT's health or contract issues that prompted the Larkin signing. Hope I'm worried about nothing.

Re: Shane Larkin signs with Celtics
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2017, 01:02:43 PM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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Derrick rose isn't reliable Nor Coming for the Minimum. We needed a replacement for jackson. We got it
Right on. No other explanation needed.  We can shut this thread down now.