Shane Larkin signs with Celtics

[KGBirdBias]

head scratcher of a move.  2 likeliest explanations are
1) IT's injury isn't healing as well as hoped and they need another PG on the roster
2) Smart and/or Rozier are being trade sometime before the start of the season.
or both.

I suspect there's a deal in motion for either Smart or Rozier to possibly add another big man to the roster -- someone who can cover the 5 spot.  Unless it's clarified Theis is a 2-way contract or he's not guaranteed, there would seem to be another deal in the making.

I'm thinking this may be why he's signing.

[Diggles]

My opinion.....Larkin gets a camp invite and  gets paid to be coached by one of the best coaches in the NBA.    IF he does not make the Celtics squad but still gets good praises by Brad he may get an offer from another ball club.   If the money or playing time is not there he goes back to Europe.   Looks like a win win for everyone.   

As far as IT and his injury.   I see him walking and moving around fine in his Instagram posts.   I think there is just a "little" concern for the "big' guy!   

[jambr380]

Personally, unless Yab has shown behind the scenes that he is a ready to break out star, I prefer that he stay overseas one more season. This may not be optimal to him, but the selection of Ojeleye and signing of Theis make for a crowded back up PF position if he comes over now. I would rather begin that rookie contact next year, while continuing to develop him this year.

[TA9]

Update

@JaredWeissNBA

Shane Larkin has agreed to a one-year, guaranteed deal with the Celtics, per sources. @IAmDPick reported first.

So does this mean that Yabu will be stashed overseas for another year since Larkin's deal is fully guaranteed?

[kmart12]

So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?

The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

I still don't understand how people are convinced that Marcus Morris is a starting caliber PF (or PF in general). Either people haven't seen him play, haven't looked at his prior statistics, or are confused about which twin Danny traded for. And yeah, we're not scaring anybody with a frontcourt of Al and Baynes, although it's certainly more appealing that Al and Amir.

Nobody thinks that he's a traditional PF.  But in today's switch-everything NBA, he absolutely can start there (especially if he's played next to another SF/PF like Crowder).  Against a team like the Pelicans you'd have to throw in Baynes (or maybe Zizic eventually), but against most teams IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford would be fine.  Yes, we'd have occasional trouble guarding bigger PFs, but those PFs would have just as much trouble covering Morris and Crowder out on the perimeter

All that is well and good but that's not what I'm talking about. As you explained, the NBA's evolved and traditional power forwards pretty much don't exist, but that doesn't answer the need for players to rebound and protect the rim in a way that is at least similar to what 4's and 5's are expected to do. To rely on a guy who averages 4 rebounds and 0 blocks a game next to a guy (i.e., Horford) who is a mediocre rebounder and average shotblocker is suboptimal at best. I'm not even that concerned about defense with that lineup as much as I am about how poorly we're going to rebound (again).

[saltlover]

Update

@JaredWeissNBA

Shane Larkin has agreed to a one-year, guaranteed deal with the Celtics, per sources. @IAmDPick reported first.

So does this mean that Yabu will be stashed overseas for another year since Larkin's deal is fully guaranteed?

That or the team is going to cut someone with a guaranteed deal in training camp, which they've done for a few seasons in a row now. (Although this year would be different in that the cut player would likely be rookie draft pick or recently signed free agent, whereas in prior years it was players acquired via trade or players who had been on the prior year roster.)

[Surferdad]

So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?

The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

I still don't understand how people are convinced that Marcus Morris is a starting caliber PF (or PF in general). Either people haven't seen him play, haven't looked at his prior statistics, or are confused about which twin Danny traded for. And yeah, we're not scaring anybody with a frontcourt of Al and Baynes, although it's certainly more appealing that Al and Amir.

Nobody thinks that he's a traditional PF.  But in today's switch-everything NBA, he absolutely can start there (especially if he's played next to another SF/PF like Crowder).  Against a team like the Pelicans you'd have to throw in Baynes (or maybe Zizic eventually), but against most teams IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford would be fine.  Yes, we'd have occasional trouble guarding bigger PFs, but those PFs would have just as much trouble covering Morris and Crowder out on the perimeter

Agreed, PF is no longer a need.

Biggest need now is a decent shooter off the bench to replace Green/KO (and AB).  This is why I am a bit puzzled about Larkin.

[gouki88]

What the ...

[JHTruth]

This is interesting.  I wonder if he's guaranteed.  You'd think he'd have to be to leave that much money in the table.

Also interesting that Yabusele still hasn't signed.

It's making me really think that Theis isn't guaranteed

Could be.  Or could be they're willing to cut a guaranteed contract in camp.

But assuming both Theis and Larkin sign guaranteed deals, they're still at 15 until Yabusele signs.  His delay is becoming more and more curious.

Last week DA said they hoped to sign Yabu in the next couple weeks. I'm wondering if there is a trade still coming in the works. It's just weird that Hayward hasn't had his official presser yet. I don't know if they are waiting for vacations to get done with so that some other players can be at the presser.

Or they are working on some contract extensions, or trades. Just have a weird feeling something else is going on we haven't heard about bout, big or small.

The key word phrase regarding Yabusele is "hope to sign."  They signed Zizic and Tatum immediately on July 1st.  Are they hoping to sign him for less than his 120% slot?  Are they hoping he passes a physical?  Because I doubt Yabusele is saying that he won't accept the 120% slot that every other rookie gets.  Accordingly, there's some sort of reason for a delay.

IF he has to pass his physical, it makes sense since he had the surgery and was out of SL.

It's still weird they would sign an other player with out saying Yabu isn't coming. Which still means we are over the 15 man roster. So whats the next move? And still no word of a Hayward Presser. DA said they were waiting for media to come back from SL, but thats been days.

I'm hoping they are trying to extend IT and get him a bit cheaper. I'm a bit worried IT is more about the brinks truck than the team at times. Not saying he shouldn't get payed. But some times I don't get the same feeling from him like I did with PP and KG and being a Celtic. Hope I'm wrong, Love the guy and what he can do.

There's little incentive for either IT or the C's to negotiate right now. IT no doubt still hopes another huge year combined with a deep playoff run forces the C's to break out the Brinks truck. The C's are going to see what his market value really is before making a move. Plus they have to see how the draft turns out, and whether IT fits in the long-term plans and can stay healthy.

[BitterJim]

So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?

The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

I still don't understand how people are convinced that Marcus Morris is a starting caliber PF (or PF in general). Either people haven't seen him play, haven't looked at his prior statistics, or are confused about which twin Danny traded for. And yeah, we're not scaring anybody with a frontcourt of Al and Baynes, although it's certainly more appealing that Al and Amir.

Nobody thinks that he's a traditional PF.  But in today's switch-everything NBA, he absolutely can start there (especially if he's played next to another SF/PF like Crowder).  Against a team like the Pelicans you'd have to throw in Baynes (or maybe Zizic eventually), but against most teams IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford would be fine.  Yes, we'd have occasional trouble guarding bigger PFs, but those PFs would have just as much trouble covering Morris and Crowder out on the perimeter

All that is well and good but that's not what I'm talking about. As you explained, the NBA's evolved and traditional power forwards pretty much don't exist, but that doesn't answer the need for players to rebound and protect the rim in a way that is at least similar to what 4's and 5's are expected to do. To rely on a guy who averages 4 rebounds and 0 blocks a game next to a guy (i.e., Horford) who is a mediocre rebounder and average shotblocker is suboptimal at best. I'm not even that concerned about defense with that lineup as much as I am about how poorly we're going to rebound (again).

We'll (have to) be a gang rebounding team.  The team was at its best in the playoffs with Green replacing Amir in the starting lineup, and if you replace Green with Morris it's an improvement in rebounding.  We're not gonna be a team with a 10+ rebound guy, but we'll have a few guys averaging 6+, a very spread out floor, and an extremely efficient offense.  The idea (and it certainly worked in the playoffs last year) is that the benefits to your offense outweigh the poor rebounding. As for shot blocking, having guys that can defend well after switching on picks outweighs that.

I don't think anybody has said that Morris is the perfect PF for us, or should ever be used without a real big out there, but he's definitely a better fit in the starting lineup than Baynes (especially because his 15-20 mpg should be used when Horford is off the floor)

[BitterJim]

This is interesting.  I wonder if he's guaranteed.  You'd think he'd have to be to leave that much money in the table.

Also interesting that Yabusele still hasn't signed.

It's making me really think that Theis isn't guaranteed

Could be.  Or could be they're willing to cut a guaranteed contract in camp.

But assuming both Theis and Larkin sign guaranteed deals, they're still at 15 until Yabusele signs.  His delay is becoming more and more curious.

Last week DA said they hoped to sign Yabu in the next couple weeks. I'm wondering if there is a trade still coming in the works. It's just weird that Hayward hasn't had his official presser yet. I don't know if they are waiting for vacations to get done with so that some other players can be at the presser.

Or they are working on some contract extensions, or trades. Just have a weird feeling something else is going on we haven't heard about bout, big or small.

The key word phrase regarding Yabusele is "hope to sign."  They signed Zizic and Tatum immediately on July 1st.  Are they hoping to sign him for less than his 120% slot?  Are they hoping he passes a physical?  Because I doubt Yabusele is saying that he won't accept the 120% slot that every other rookie gets.  Accordingly, there's some sort of reason for a delay.

IF he has to pass his physical, it makes sense since he had the surgery and was out of SL.

It's still weird they would sign an other player with out saying Yabu isn't coming. Which still means we are over the 15 man roster. So whats the next move? And still no word of a Hayward Presser. DA said they were waiting for media to come back from SL, but thats been days.

I'm hoping they are trying to extend IT and get him a bit cheaper. I'm a bit worried IT is more about the brinks truck than the team at times. Not saying he shouldn't get payed. But some times I don't get the same feeling from him like I did with PP and KG and being a Celtic. Hope I'm wrong, Love the guy and what he can do.

There's little incentive for either IT or the C's to negotiate right now. IT no doubt still hopes another huge year combined with a deep playoff run forces the C's to break out the Brinks truck. The C's are going to see what his market value really is before making a move. Plus they have to see how the draft turns out, and whether IT fits in the long-term plans and can stay healthy.

That doesn't even factor into it.  There will be no negotiation for an extension right now because IT will not (and should not) accept the $7.4 million (at most) that he would be eligible for in 2018 if extended now.  Everything else is just background noise.

[kozlodoev]

So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?

The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

We could. But then we have to throw the whole "positionless basketball" concept out the window.

[JHTruth]

This is interesting.  I wonder if he's guaranteed.  You'd think he'd have to be to leave that much money in the table.

Also interesting that Yabusele still hasn't signed.

It's making me really think that Theis isn't guaranteed

Could be.  Or could be they're willing to cut a guaranteed contract in camp.

But assuming both Theis and Larkin sign guaranteed deals, they're still at 15 until Yabusele signs.  His delay is becoming more and more curious.

Last week DA said they hoped to sign Yabu in the next couple weeks. I'm wondering if there is a trade still coming in the works. It's just weird that Hayward hasn't had his official presser yet. I don't know if they are waiting for vacations to get done with so that some other players can be at the presser.

Or they are working on some contract extensions, or trades. Just have a weird feeling something else is going on we haven't heard about bout, big or small.

The key word phrase regarding Yabusele is "hope to sign."  They signed Zizic and Tatum immediately on July 1st.  Are they hoping to sign him for less than his 120% slot?  Are they hoping he passes a physical?  Because I doubt Yabusele is saying that he won't accept the 120% slot that every other rookie gets.  Accordingly, there's some sort of reason for a delay.

IF he has to pass his physical, it makes sense since he had the surgery and was out of SL.

It's still weird they would sign an other player with out saying Yabu isn't coming. Which still means we are over the 15 man roster. So whats the next move? And still no word of a Hayward Presser. DA said they were waiting for media to come back from SL, but thats been days.

I'm hoping they are trying to extend IT and get him a bit cheaper. I'm a bit worried IT is more about the brinks truck than the team at times. Not saying he shouldn't get payed. But some times I don't get the same feeling from him like I did with PP and KG and being a Celtic. Hope I'm wrong, Love the guy and what he can do.

There's little incentive for either IT or the C's to negotiate right now. IT no doubt still hopes another huge year combined with a deep playoff run forces the C's to break out the Brinks truck. The C's are going to see what his market value really is before making a move. Plus they have to see how the draft turns out, and whether IT fits in the long-term plans and can stay healthy.

That doesn't even factor into it.  There will be no negotiation for an extension right now because IT will not (and should not) accept the $7.4 million (at most) that he would be eligible for in 2018 if extended now.  Everything else is just background noise.

Even if he COULD get more than $7.4mm right now, my point still stands. Neither side has any incentive to make a deal..

[BitterJim]

This is interesting.  I wonder if he's guaranteed.  You'd think he'd have to be to leave that much money in the table.

Also interesting that Yabusele still hasn't signed.

It's making me really think that Theis isn't guaranteed

Could be.  Or could be they're willing to cut a guaranteed contract in camp.

But assuming both Theis and Larkin sign guaranteed deals, they're still at 15 until Yabusele signs.  His delay is becoming more and more curious.

Last week DA said they hoped to sign Yabu in the next couple weeks. I'm wondering if there is a trade still coming in the works. It's just weird that Hayward hasn't had his official presser yet. I don't know if they are waiting for vacations to get done with so that some other players can be at the presser.

Or they are working on some contract extensions, or trades. Just have a weird feeling something else is going on we haven't heard about bout, big or small.

The key word phrase regarding Yabusele is "hope to sign."  They signed Zizic and Tatum immediately on July 1st.  Are they hoping to sign him for less than his 120% slot?  Are they hoping he passes a physical?  Because I doubt Yabusele is saying that he won't accept the 120% slot that every other rookie gets.  Accordingly, there's some sort of reason for a delay.

IF he has to pass his physical, it makes sense since he had the surgery and was out of SL.

It's still weird they would sign an other player with out saying Yabu isn't coming. Which still means we are over the 15 man roster. So whats the next move? And still no word of a Hayward Presser. DA said they were waiting for media to come back from SL, but thats been days.

I'm hoping they are trying to extend IT and get him a bit cheaper. I'm a bit worried IT is more about the brinks truck than the team at times. Not saying he shouldn't get payed. But some times I don't get the same feeling from him like I did with PP and KG and being a Celtic. Hope I'm wrong, Love the guy and what he can do.

There's little incentive for either IT or the C's to negotiate right now. IT no doubt still hopes another huge year combined with a deep playoff run forces the C's to break out the Brinks truck. The C's are going to see what his market value really is before making a move. Plus they have to see how the draft turns out, and whether IT fits in the long-term plans and can stay healthy.

That doesn't even factor into it.  There will be no negotiation for an extension right now because IT will not (and should not) accept the $7.4 million (at most) that he would be eligible for in 2018 if extended now.  Everything else is just background noise.

Even if he COULD get more than $7.4mm right now, my point still stands. Neither side has any incentive to make a deal..

Maybe, but it doesn't mean anything. It's still background noise compared to the fact that there's no possible deal that would even be considered

[Surferdad]

So how about addressing that need for a power forward?

What need?

The one where you are one injury away from having to start a PF who is 6'6 or has zero minutes of prior NBA experience.

If Morris gets injured we could start Al+Baynes in the front court

I still don't understand how people are convinced that Marcus Morris is a starting caliber PF (or PF in general). Either people haven't seen him play, haven't looked at his prior statistics, or are confused about which twin Danny traded for. And yeah, we're not scaring anybody with a frontcourt of Al and Baynes, although it's certainly more appealing that Al and Amir.

Nobody thinks that he's a traditional PF.  But in today's switch-everything NBA, he absolutely can start there (especially if he's played next to another SF/PF like Crowder).  Against a team like the Pelicans you'd have to throw in Baynes (or maybe Zizic eventually), but against most teams IT/Hayward/Crowder/Morris/Horford would be fine.  Yes, we'd have occasional trouble guarding bigger PFs, but those PFs would have just as much trouble covering Morris and Crowder out on the perimeter

All that is well and good but that's not what I'm talking about. As you explained, the NBA's evolved and traditional power forwards pretty much don't exist, but that doesn't answer the need for players to rebound and protect the rim in a way that is at least similar to what 4's and 5's are expected to do. To rely on a guy who averages 4 rebounds and 0 blocks a game next to a guy (i.e., Horford) who is a mediocre rebounder and average shotblocker is suboptimal at best. I'm not even that concerned about defense with that lineup as much as I am about how poorly we're going to rebound (again).

We'll (have to) be a gang rebounding team.  The team was at its best in the playoffs with Green replacing Amir in the starting lineup, and if you replace Green with Morris it's an improvement in rebounding.  We're not gonna be a team with a 10+ rebound guy, but we'll have a few guys averaging 6+, a very spread out floor, and an extremely efficient offense.  The idea (and it certainly worked in the playoffs last year) is that the benefits to your offense outweigh the poor rebounding. As for shot blocking, having guys that can defend well after switching on picks outweighs that.

I don't think anybody has said that Morris is the perfect PF for us, or should ever be used without a real big out there, but he's definitely a better fit in the starting lineup than Baynes (especially because his 15-20 mpg should be used when Horford is off the floor)

Speaking of gang rebounding, let's not forget that Avery Bradley was the best rebounder on the team last season and now can be considered one of the better rebounding guards in the league.

It is a fallacy to think that height alone is the key to rebounding.  While height is obviously helpful, good rebounders understand the key is positioning and blocking out.