Author Topic: I'm getting tired of this.....  (Read 1648 times)

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I'm getting tired of this.....
« on: July 17, 2017, 10:34:11 AM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Been a Celtics fan almost my entire life...now I'm getting tired of the 'game'. I'm not talking about the game on the court, rather the game off the court. In particular I'm frustrated with the revolving door policy the new collective bargaining agreement seems to be perpetuating. Good and mediocre players sticking with one team for any length of time is mostly a thing of the past.

Now more than ever, GM's must manipulate contract salaries against salary cap limits. Players and their agents weigh salary maximization, playing time, teammate desires, endorsement possibilities, taxes, etc. in deciding where they want to play. Somewhere in this mix is a desire to win by both management and players. It seems far down the list though. This setup has always been in place. For some reason it feels a lot different now. Players staying with one team is almost unheard of. (Note the recent CB post..,”Six Celtics returning from last year's team”)

Can one really be a fan under these conditions. Players you cheered for, for 3 years are not resigned because there's not enough room under the cap to sign them. Or, they go elsewhere because they can get more money than their original team can pay. 

Over the years many of us wasted countless hours on CB evaluating players, criticizing or praising Danny, Brad, Doc, etc. There seemed to be some purpose... for example, many of us thought or felt we were building a team for the future....we speculated that if we got a few more assets, then we’d be title contenders.

Under the present circumstances, that's a myth. We can't count on players being re-signed. This year alone we lost key players in Bradley and Kelly. We didn't get anything for Kelly and likely a diminished value for Bradley. We griped for years that we should have signed Giannis instead of Kelly. Incredibly, we got NOTHING for him….nada. He was one of team’s best 3 point shooters and found cunning ways of scoring easy baskets near the hoop. Same thing happened last year.... we got NOTHING for Evan Turner….another stalwart on our offence. It’s likely next year another key player will sign elsewhere without us getting compensated. In a few years it could be Tatum or Brown. How can we have hope for the future under these conditions?

Yes, this year we may have acquired new players who might be as good or better than what we let go...But, how does one really cheer for players in the NBA anymore. We know that it's highly probably they'll be heading elsewhere at some point. In general fans build a bond for the better players on their favorite team over time. It doesn't seem this is possible under the current arrangement.

Sometime after the middle of last season a couple CBer's posted that they hadn't been watching the Celtics like they used to. And, they said that they didn't miss it. I’m beginning to wonder if I, and many other NBA fans, might feel the same way this coming season.

Even this summer, I watched two Celtic Summer League games and didn't have much desire to see any more. In the past I would have watched almost every game. Then again, it could just be the Summer League doesn't interest me like it did in the past.

Sadly, I enter the upcoming season with a reluctance to follow NBA basketball. The game seems to be more about money and entertainment, than it is about competition. On the other hand chances are I'll still be a fan because breaking an addiction isn't easy.

Anyone else feel a similar pain or frustration with the current state of contract affairs in the NBA?  Or, for other reasons? 

(Apologies for the negative tone of this post….maybe some of you can point out a lot of the positives I’m missing.) 


Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 10:45:55 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 10:52:07 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.
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Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 10:54:25 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.

That depends on whether or not you think "Keep Kelly for $13 million a year" is better than "Let Kelly go".

I'd take the second.
I'm bitter.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 10:57:11 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.

Paul George was traded before Free Agency. Paul George has 1 year on his deal. Same old Kozdolev, same old.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 11:02:05 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.

Paul George was traded before Free Agency. Paul George has 1 year on his deal. Same old Kozdolev, same old.
I'm not sure why the timing matters. The narrative that signing Hayward is a better deal than trading for George because we didn't have to give up any assets is alive and kicking on this blog right now. So yes, you have to pick one of the two narratives.

And by the way, didn't George say that the talk of leaving for LA is "overstated"?
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Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 11:03:45 AM »

Offline Granath

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I'm surprised this wasn't posted by Triboy about Jordan Mickey.

No, I don't feel the same way. You retain the guys that matter and let go the ones who don't. You complain about Evan Turner, a guy we got for nothing who is now one of the worst contracts in the NBA. KO may end up being a similar case.

Danny's flipped the roster this year. Most everyone should have been able to see this coming and it's no surprise. He's been doing it constantly since the KG/PP trade. I suppose you can lament the "good ole' days" of Jordan Crawford and Kris Humphries but personally I like a team that wins. And I cheer just as much for the uniform as I do for the guy wearing it.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 11:04:33 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.

That depends on whether or not you think "Keep Kelly for $13 million a year" is better than "Let Kelly go".

I'd take the second.
Well, it also depends on whether Indiana could have been convinced to take Olynyk in a trade. It depends on many things, including what a Bradley + Olynyk trade package could have gotten you on the open market when you weren't under the gun to shed salary.
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Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 11:06:29 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I hear you, but there's no real way around it. Even if there were no salary cap, I don't think we'd keep guys like Turner at $17 million. Of course, no cap would lead to even more salary inflation.

All we can realistically hope for is to keep our stars, and wish our role players well.


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Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 11:06:44 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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We didnt actually lose Kelly for nothing and AB for diminished return. Think about it this way, we traded Kelly and AB for Hayward and Marcus Morris. In the same way that the Cavs didnt lose Luol Deng for nothing, it was necessary to get Lebron James.
Well, it's either that, or "not trading for Paul George was good because we got Hayward for nothing". Can't have them both.

That depends on whether or not you think "Keep Kelly for $13 million a year" is better than "Let Kelly go".

I'd take the second.
Well, it also depends on whether Indiana could have been convinced to take Olynyk in a trade. It depends on many things, including what a Bradley + Olynyk trade package could have gotten you on the open market when you weren't under the gun to shed salary.

That would be Kelly's decision, not Indy's.  We could have used him as salary filler if he wanted to go to Indy for a salary that they wanted him for, but he was not an asset that we had any control over (except in our ability to match contracts)
I'm bitter.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 11:07:09 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I get what you're saying, Alleyoopster. I like that players have the freedom to choose their team after their rookie contract is up, but it's tough sometimes to have players shuffling in and out constantly. That really highlights the notion that we cheer for "the name on the front of the jersey," as opposed to individual players ... yet it's hard to not get attached to certain players.

I guess the point of the salary cap is to encourage parity among teams, but that doesn't really work, because good owners are willing to go into the luxury tax to be true contenders, and there are plenty of crappy owners who won't spend enough to even put a decent team on the floor. And now there are guys like Durant who'll take less in order to keep super teams together.

But the NBA wants to have its cake and eat it too—they want to have as many franchises as possible in order to increase overall marketing revenue, but they really don't want teams like San Antonio being good, because that's not a lucrative market like L.A. or New York or Boston. So there's no virtually no way a team like Orlando or Milwaukee or Charlotte is ever going to be a true title contender in the modern NBA (which is especially unfortunate for franchises that have some rich history, such as Milwaukee), yet the NBA will never contract those franchises because that would be an overall loss of league revenue. So teams like the Bucks, for all intents and purposes, serve as glorified minor-league pipelines for the few wealthy/super teams.

But even with the better teams, like Boston, there will still be quite a bit of shuffling, even of good players like Bradley, because owners and GMs need to make room for the star players, who are necessary for winning in the modern NBA.

So, you're right, it's kind of a mess.
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Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 11:22:43 AM »

Offline bdm860

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Been a Celtics fan almost my entire life...now I'm getting tired of the 'game'. I'm not talking about the game on the court, rather the game off the court. In particular I'm frustrated with the revolving door policy the new collective bargaining agreement seems to be perpetuating. Good and mediocre players sticking with one team for any length of time is mostly a thing of the past.

I think this revolving door policy has always been there to some degree.  Look at the C's in the 70's and 80's when they were winning titles regularly.

The '76 team had only 6 players from the '74 team.

The '84 team had only 6 players from the '81 team.  The '86 team had only 7 players from the '84 team and only 3 players from the '81 team.

Only difference now is the players actually have some say too.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 11:31:47 AM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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root for the laundry

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 11:40:12 AM »

Offline gift

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Obviously one of the main factors is the limit of years for contracts. Early opt outs mean guys leave after one or two years in a lot of cases. By the time you trade for a guy, he's only got a year or two left on his deal. When those guys leave after a year or two, that opens up space for new guys to slide in from other teams, leaving those teams behind after a short amount of time.

I didn't really like the long contracts, but I do wish we saw more stability in rosters from year to year (assuming they are guys we like). We've just had so many rentals over the past 4 years, I don't have the same connection to them as to past Celtics players.

Re: I'm getting tired of this.....
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 11:51:29 AM »

Offline Androslav

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TP to OP for the effort and stating your opinion.

I look at it in a different way.
Lets say we compare jobs (NBA player job and factory job). 30 years ago we would have a steady job, not moving much (at least in Croatia), maybe would have even worked for the majority of a carrer at one firm. Player did similar in the 80'ies. With the teritorial draft earlier that was even more pronaunced. The trend has been in decline for a long time when talking about the players playing for one team or mosty for one team.
Now, with our technlogical improvements and more efficient transport we maximize our careers more effectively. More markets are opened for us. Players, like us do the same. Better market - gone.

What I see in this to be optimistic, is that there are certain team values that make the team what it is. The agenda that the team stands for. Core values. We, as Cetics have ours. Smart guys, competitors, coachable, hard working, are the traits often more important than the players individual talent. The Lakers they go different route. Talent, marketable guys, flashy etc. There are many teams (Utah, San Antonio, Miami etc) that have their structure in place and their fans can cheer for that each time they step on the floor. Some teams are not as succesfull and don't have their structure and core values set or recognized. Those teams usualy fail.
I cheer for the team and if Žižić, KG or IT is on that team - even better.
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