Poll

Who plays more minutes

Crowder
7 (15.2%)
Morris
39 (84.8%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris  (Read 1476 times)

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Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2017, 10:43:25 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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 This poll is a little off. Crowder is the guy with experience at the four and overall on the Celtics.

Morris has more experience at the 4, he's played approximately 35% of his NBA minutes at PF/C. Other than in Detroit, both Houston and Phoenix played him more at the 4 than the 3.

Jae has played just 22% of his career at PF and only 13% last season, whereas Hayward has played PF 30% of the time for Utah last season.
the best part is, this is a great problem to have. We have 2 competent players, on great contracts, who can play the 4. Let them duke it out in training camp and see who comes out on top

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2017, 11:01:58 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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Morris

Crowder still has a chance to start

however you need someone to guard opposing best ball handler/PG. Which means Smart likely starts
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:10:29 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2017, 11:23:10 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I don't want to see Crowder playing any more then occasional spot minutes at the 4, and even then only during special matchups that warrant it.

Crowder has the size and length of a SG.  He can't protect the rim, can't rebound at a high level, and has absolutely zero post game.  He also can't defend anybody bigger than around Gordon Hayward / Jimmy Butler size on anything resembling a consistent basis.

I'm not a big fan of Morris playing a full season at the PF spot either to be honest, since he has most of the same limitations as Crowder...but at least he has decent length and some semblance of an inside game, and some history of effectiveness defending bigs (e.g. Kevin Love) to show he is capable. 

Still hate it as a permanent solution due to his complete lack of rebounding, which happens to be almost as bad as Horford's complete lack of rebounding.   

Speaking of which, how the hell does Horford go from being a 9 RPG guy to being a 6 RPG guy in the space of 3 or 4 seasons?  Because guys like KG, TD and Mourning remained dominant rebounders in to their mid-late 30s long after their athleticism faded, yet Horford at age 31/32 has somehow completely forgotten what a rebound is.  I'm not asking for much - just give us a measly 8 rebounds a night and I will be content.  Give us 9 rebounds a night and I'll be thrilled.  But this 6.5 - 7 rebounds a night is pathetic for a 6'10" / 250 lbs big who is as physically strong and mobile as Horford is. 

Worst part is that Hoford showed us in the playoffs that he CAN still grab those boards when he wants to, so what is the deal?  Do we have another Rajon Rondo, who falls asleep at regular season time and only plays when the stakes are high?  I expect more consistency then that from a $28m - $30m man.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2017, 11:33:54 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Hopefully, we never see Smart at the 3 again.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 09:44:14 AM »

Offline billysan

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I don't want to see Crowder playing any more then occasional spot minutes at the 4, and even then only during special matchups that warrant it.

Crowder has the size and length of a SG.  He can't protect the rim, can't rebound at a high level, and has absolutely zero post game.  He also can't defend anybody bigger than around Gordon Hayward / Jimmy Butler size on anything resembling a consistent basis.

I'm not a big fan of Morris playing a full season at the PF spot either to be honest, since he has most of the same limitations as Crowder...but at least he has decent length and some semblance of an inside game, and some history of effectiveness defending bigs (e.g. Kevin Love) to show he is capable. 

Still hate it as a permanent solution due to his complete lack of rebounding, which happens to be almost as bad as Horford's complete lack of rebounding.   

Speaking of which, how the hell does Horford go from being a 9 RPG guy to being a 6 RPG guy in the space of 3 or 4 seasons?  Because guys like KG, TD and Mourning remained dominant rebounders in to their mid-late 30s long after their athleticism faded, yet Horford at age 31/32 has somehow completely forgotten what a rebound is.  I'm not asking for much - just give us a measly 8 rebounds a night and I will be content.  Give us 9 rebounds a night and I'll be thrilled.  But this 6.5 - 7 rebounds a night is pathetic for a 6'10" / 250 lbs big who is as physically strong and mobile as Horford is. 

Worst part is that Hoford showed us in the playoffs that he CAN still grab those boards when he wants to, so what is the deal?  Do we have another Rajon Rondo, who falls asleep at regular season time and only plays when the stakes are high?  I expect more consistency then that from a $28m - $30m man.

I attribute rebounding numbers to team style of play. Playing on the perimeter and switching to perimeter players on defense will usually drag rebounding numbers down.  Horford and our other bigs don't crash the glass in a traditional sense but rather Release downcourt when a shot goes up it seems.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 09:49:45 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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I voted Morris. I think Jae may get traded sometime this year.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 10:02:20 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I voted Morris. I think Jae may get traded sometime this year.


welcome

Marc Gasol

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2017, 12:16:33 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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I was a little disappointed to find out Morris is a SF that can play some PF, similar to Crowder. Jae player 26% of his minutes at PF last year.

I think the small-ball experiment with Crowder at the 4 had mixed results - although it saved the Chicago series. Brad said that the sample size was small but he believed in it.

Despite the difference in length, Crowder was far superior to Morris as a defensive rebounder last season, and whether you look at things through the traditional 1-5 lens or the big/swing/wing/ballhandler lens, that gives Jae an advantage.

If Jae is your starting 4, that's a problem.  As a backup, it's a much better role for him. On defense he can also take quicker wings, and now that Bradley is gone he may well see more time at the "2" (or whatever we call that these days).

Morris is taller and about the same weight with a much better post up and mid-range game, while Crowder is the better three point shooter.

Better mid-range game for sure - but was it good? .447 between 10ft and the arc. Not a bad asset if you've got to get a shot, but a steady diet of it is offensive suicide.

Crowder is also a way better finisher (.739 at the rim is stellar), gets to the line a lot more, better FT shooter (though Morris is good).

Crowder is high-efficiency, low-usage. 

I'm doubtful that we'll see many Morris post-ups; he's not real good at making a play.

Your point about Morris' length is a good one; that's the main thing that he's got going for him - not a small thing. They both body up and play physical defense.

So who plays more minutes at the four.

Beats me. Eventually Tatum, I'd guess, and he's got enough shot-creating skills that even more minutes than Jaylen got in his rookie year seems likely; and some of those will be at the swing/pf slot.

The dark horse, I guess, is Ojeleye - Brad was raving about his defense on bigger players in Summer League; but it would be quite an achievement for him to even crack the rotation in his rookie year.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:25:48 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2017, 12:37:08 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Quote
I'm doubtful that we'll see many Morris post-ups; he's not real good at making a play.

From what I've seen in highlights it looks like he has some high quality face up post moves. Do you mean he doesn't have a back to the basket game?
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

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Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 12:38:58 PM »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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Quote
I'm doubtful that we'll see many Morris post-ups; he's not real good at making a play.

From what I've seen in highlights it looks like he has some high quality face up post moves. Do you mean he doesn't have a back to the basket game?

No, I mean that he's not real good at finding open shooters and cutters.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 12:50:05 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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You guys know better than me, but, as far as  I can see, Crowder is a three making any match up with him at four a potential bad matchup.

His minutes @ 4 last season related to Steven's doing his thing. Don't forget this 2016/17 trivia...who started at center and PF for a few games during the playoffs? His last name is Green and "his average minutes at the four" are dropping so low, he'll need to get them from another team.

I think Baynes gets a good number of center minutes. Horford gets more minutes at PF with Morris backing him up, leaving Jae Crowder with his BF Hayward to figure out SF. These problems are good.   

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 01:08:34 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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I was a little disappointed to find out Morris is a SF that can play some PF, similar to Crowder. Jae player 26% of his minutes at PF last year.

I think the small-ball experiment with Crowder at the 4 had mixed results - although it saved the Chicago series. Brad said that the sample size was small but he believed in it.

Despite the difference in length, Crowder was far superior to Morris as a defensive rebounder last season, and whether you look at things through the traditional 1-5 lens or the big/swing/wing/ballhandler lens, that gives Jae an advantage.

If Jae is your starting 4, that's a problem.  As a backup, it's a much better role for him. On defense he can also take quicker wings, and now that Bradley is gone he may well see more time at the "2" (or whatever we call that these days).

Morris is taller and about the same weight with a much better post up and mid-range game, while Crowder is the better three point shooter.

Better mid-range game for sure - but was it good? .447 between 10ft and the arc. Not a bad asset if you've got to get a shot, but a steady diet of it is offensive suicide.

Crowder is also a way better finisher (.739 at the rim is stellar), gets to the line a lot more, better FT shooter (though Morris is good).

Crowder is high-efficiency, low-usage. 

I'm doubtful that we'll see many Morris post-ups; he's not real good at making a play.

Your point about Morris' length is a good one; that's the main thing that he's got going for him - not a small thing. They both body up and play physical defense.

So who plays more minutes at the four.

Beats me. Eventually Tatum, I'd guess, and he's got enough shot-creating skills that even more minutes than Jaylen got in his rookie year seems likely; and some of those will be at the swing/pf slot.

The dark horse, I guess, is Ojeleye - Brad was raving about his defense on bigger players in Summer League; but it would be quite an achievement for him to even crack the rotation in his rookie year.




 Tp Painted. Good points.


 One thing about Morris on the Glass is playing next to Horford and playing next to one of the greatest rebounders in the world in Drummond could make a difference in his rebound % for sure.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 02:13:29 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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No, I mean that he's not real good at finding open shooters and cutters.

How do you know this? Just curious.
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 02:42:24 PM »

Offline DooVoo

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There is no 4. There are Bigs-Wings-Ball Handlers. Crowder and Morris are wings although Morris can also be a Big in the right lineup.

It looks like it will take Celticsblog a long time to stop fitting people into the traditional 1-5 which is dying around the NBA. Welcome to 2017

Re: Poll: Who plays more minutes at the 4 Crowder or Morris
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 03:02:02 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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There is no 4. There are Bigs-Wings-Ball Handlers. Crowder and Morris are wings although Morris can also be a Big in the right lineup.

It looks like it will take Celticsblog a long time to stop fitting people into the traditional 1-5 which is dying around the NBA. Welcome to 2017



 Brad's philosophy on this is cute but it's not 💯% true.

 We drafted Yabu to be the ideal Stretch PF. We signed Baynes to play Center.

 You should know that If Crowder is our starting PF that's not a great idea, you at the very least have to have more size as an option