Poll

Lose Bradley (Trade). Sign Hayward (Free Agency). Upgrade Or Not?

Huge Upgrade
61 (69.3%)
Moderate Upgrade
25 (28.4%)
Slight Upgrade Only
2 (2.3%)
Pretty Much The Same, Honestly
0 (0%)
We Took A Step Back. Hayward Is (Really) Overrated/Bradley Underrated
0 (0%)
I Don't Know (Just Can't Say Now..)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 86

Author Topic: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward  (Read 3809 times)

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Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2017, 02:08:28 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan.
Yes, it's entirely plausible that Hayward might end up being more like the 2013-2015 version of himself for the remainder of his career. That's possible low value for a max contract, but still a marked improvement over Jae Crowder.
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Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2017, 02:13:32 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan. 

Especially when considering the Celtics already have Jae Crowder - who is a top 10 NBA small forward - locked up on one of the league' best deals for years to come... And they just spent consecutive top 3 picks on guys who play his position....

So you think that a 27 year old who averaged 22 pts on very good splits "peaked?" Even considering he didn't fit well in the system he was in? Our system fits his strengths much better, but yea, I guess he peaked already
My 2017 Draft Rankings:       My 2017 FA Celtic Rankings:
1.) Markelle Fultz                   1.) Gordon Hayward
2.) Jayson Tatum                   2.) Blake Griffin
3.) Lonzo Ball                           3.) No other realistic options
4.) Josh Jackson                          move the needle much
5.) Lauri Markkanen

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2017, 02:31:31 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan.
Yes, it's entirely plausible that Hayward might end up being more like the 2013-2015 version of himself for the remainder of his career. That's possible low value for a max contract, but still a marked improvement over Jae Crowder.

It is a little bit of a worry, but even so if you look at talent in verses talent out via trades and FA this offseason Hayward, Morris, Baynes, Theis should be an improvement over Bradley, Johnson, KO, Zeller, and JJ. 

Then you factor in Bradley's flight risk next year, or possibly overpaying him and Kelly for that matter what we did locking in Hayward for up to 4 years and locking in Morris on a cheap contract for 2 years is a no brainer.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2017, 02:34:46 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan. 

Especially when considering the Celtics already have Jae Crowder - who is a top 10 NBA small forward - locked up on one of the league' best deals for years to come... And they just spent consecutive top 3 picks on guys who play his position....

So you think that a 27 year old who averaged 22 pts on very good splits "peaked?" Even considering he didn't fit well in the system he was in? Our system fits his strengths much better, but yea, I guess he peaked already
Are we gonna act like it's unusual to peak at 27?

That's like the most common age to peak lol
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Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2017, 02:41:35 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan. 

Especially when considering the Celtics already have Jae Crowder - who is a top 10 NBA small forward - locked up on one of the league' best deals for years to come... And they just spent consecutive top 3 picks on guys who play his position....
Crowder is a top 10 SF?? You can't be serious. He's a good 3 and D guy. No more.


Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2017, 02:58:47 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan. 

Especially when considering the Celtics already have Jae Crowder - who is a top 10 NBA small forward - locked up on one of the league' best deals for years to come... And they just spent consecutive top 3 picks on guys who play his position....
Crowder is a top 10 SF?? You can't be serious. He's a good 3 and D guy. No more.

Welcome to CelticsBlog where Jae Crowder is a top 10 SF but Gordon Hayward has already peaked.
Thank you, Isaiah!!!

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2017, 03:10:37 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Hayward peaked last season and the Celtics bought at an all time high... I question the wisdom of his signing.  It's definitely better than maxing out a player who peaked four or five seasons ago (Al Horford), but it seems a strong indicator that there's no real long-term plan. 

Especially when considering the Celtics already have Jae Crowder - who is a top 10 NBA small forward - locked up on one of the league' best deals for years to come... And they just spent consecutive top 3 picks on guys who play his position....
Crowder is a top 10 SF?? You can't be serious. He's a good 3 and D guy. No more.

Welcome to CelticsBlog where Jae Crowder is a top 10 SF but Gordon Hayward has already peaked.

TP - this topic is derailing quickly.

I said 'huge upgrade', but may have just been caught up in the moment. It is probably somewhere in between moderate and huge. We basically were able to replace [the strengths of] two players (AB and KO) with one all-star player in Hayward.

I expect the difference to be similar to Horford taking over for Sullinger. Hayward should have better stats than Horford, but having a SG/SF out there that can do it all is going to be a revelation to all of us. As good as AB was, it was pretty disappointing have a starting guard on the roster who couldn't effectively pass or dribble.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2017, 03:12:11 PM »

Online green_bballers13

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Gordo is the 6th best SF, with a bunch of the heavy hitters (Lebron, Kawhi, Durant) ahead of him.

At a weaker position (SG), Bradley probably is around the 9th best player. Here are guys I'd rather have:

Harden, Thompson, Butler, Derozan, McCollum, Middleton, Booker, and Beal.

Smart has some of Bradley's defensive abilities, with a more imposing body. I think Smart's lack of offense to date might keep him here on a discount.

I liked Bradley, but I'm ok with him leaving if it means we got Hayward. 

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2017, 03:20:51 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I think Celtics fans are blinded by this teams success and simply can't see the forest through the trees.

this team got as far as they could with Bradley. in the end how did his great defense look? I seem to recall he got smoked. so maybe this supposed downgrade defensively isn't quite as bad as people want to make it out to be.

maybe Bradley's defense suffered in the ECF because he raised the level of his offense it wore him out. now we have a guy that is just plain better offensively and even if he's average defensively in general it likely won't be any worse than Bradley's in the ECF.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2017, 03:24:41 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Love AB...but he's a injury waiting to happen every season...Shoulder/Achilles/Hip/etc.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2017, 03:25:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I'm going to say huge upgrade because trading Bradley did two things:

1.  Open up space to sign Hayward
2.  Bring in Marcus Morris.

So this whole thing of comparing Bradley to Hayward should be more like, who would you rather have Bradley or Hayward and Morris. To me its clear I would rather have Hayward, who is a better player than AV, and Morris who is a pretty good player in his own right and on a sweet cost controlled contact.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:34:20 PM by nickagneta »

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »

Offline Big333223

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I love Avery Bradley but I feel very confident he's peaked. He's just never going to be the kind of player that you can throw the ball to and say "Go get us a bucket." He's not that kind of talent. He has gotten to where he's gotten to through incredible hard work but I think this is his ceiling.
 
Hayward is no superstar but he is an all star. He was the #1 option on a 51 win team. I can't imagine Bradley ever being the #1 option on a playoff team. Having a second guy on a team who can create his own shot and create for others but who can also spot up and mvoe away from the ball the way Bradley did, is going to be huge.

And I'm not even worried about the defense because I think Hayward makes the C's more versatile on that end. Plus, I think his presence gives IT a little more energy on the defensive end to be a nuisance where he can be.

So, yeah, huge upgrade.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2017, 03:32:40 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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The only reason that Bradley got traded, was because of his expiring contract...If he still had 2-3 years on it, no way Danny trades him.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2017, 03:34:24 PM »

Offline BaronV

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I'm going to say huge upgrade because trading Bradley did two things:

1.  Open up space to sign Hayward
2.  Bring in Marcus Morris.

So this whole thing of comparing Bradley to Hayward should be more like, who would you rather have Bradley of Hayward and Morris. To me its clear I would rather have Hayward, who is a better player than AV, and Morris who is a pretty good player in his own right and on a sweet cost controlled contact.

Not to mention, Boston gets multiple years of those guys.  AB was on the last year of his contract, and was due for a big payday.  So they essentially traded one year of AB for 2 years of Morris, and 4 years of Hayward. 

Re: I Feel Like People Are Overrating Bradley/Underrating Hayward
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2017, 03:58:51 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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Hayward is, if anything, underrated because he is in the same tier as George and Butler per 100 possessions. Bradley might be getting underrated, too, but per 100 he is still a tier below those three, plus the 20 or so more missed games.

http://bkref.com/tiny/DnYiF
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