Author Topic: Ed Lacerte gone too  (Read 3180 times)

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Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2017, 07:59:22 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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...no biggie

never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..

there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.

im optimistic

I'm happy.  Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.

Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2017, 08:11:16 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.

As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.

Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?

Absurd.

would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?

When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.

I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.

Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.

I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.

I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 08:24:06 PM by green_bballers13 »

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2017, 08:23:19 PM »

Offline Chief

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...no biggie

never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..

there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.

im optimistic

I'm happy.  Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.

Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.

Oh, I've had many of them.  And sometimes they healed so slow, I thought ed lacerte was treating them.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2017, 08:27:06 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Good riddance.

Why? I would love to hear your rationale on disliking Ed Lacerte.

I think Doo is going to stay and might take over. I'm pretty sure he's well liked.

I don't think his team have handled injuries right. IT's could possible been prevented when it first occurred in MArch. As long as the bone isn't misshapen, it's just a matter of rest. He should have been shut down for a few weeks, yes it would have cost us first place, but he'd be working out right now.

There are new ways of doing things. Pitchers are starting to use more heat than ice on shoulders. Blood heals muscles. Cold prevents blood flow, heat increases it. So we need more people who are up to date in the latest training techniques.

I think you're assuming that Lacerte/Doo are not on the cutting edge. I don't think that's fair. I'm not related to these guys, or even know them.

I do know that Lacerte was well respected around the league. Your assumption that he's out of touch might be that he's older now, which isn't a valid reason. There are plenty of older people that stay savvy with modern medical advancements.

Doo is younger and has his own practice. There's nothing there that tells me that he's not up-to-date with medical research/advancement.

My guess is that ownership/management got excited by something else and wanted to try it. This is different than saying the other guys weren't good enough.

I actually thought they handled the Celtics well during their championship run and the years after. It was known around the league that the Celtics were resting for the playoffs, similar to how the Cavs are (intelligently) treating Lebron.


Old Doctors, old tricks. Some times they don't want to try new methods. Now I can't say if this is true, but players have been taking a long time to come back from basic injuries that others come back from in half the time. It took AB two months to come back from his injury that my wife said should have taken half the time, also again with IT.

There are new methods, well they are actually really old, called cranial sacral. My gradfather calls it voodoo. But it works. This is something that older medical personal are very against because they are too science minded. I wouldn't be surprised if Hayward brought this up being part of his treatments. Utah has a big PT school, and Cranial Sacral is big out there.

 With the new facility and new methods, it could be time for new blood. Keep guys young and healthy. Lacerte has been good, but has been around since Bird. And he's slipped in recent years with Big Al, KG,Shaq,AB,IT. Main players, big contracts, they need to have better.


Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2017, 08:32:46 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.

First, I would tend to defer to Roy who probably knows recent C's history as well as anyone on this board!! 

Second, Roy or anyone else has a right to express his or her opinion as long as he or she does so in a respectful fashion (I know Roy, funny coming from me:-))!!  Matter of fact, Roy probably has a right to express his opinion more than anyone except for perhaps the revered Jeff Clark!!

Third, Roy was in NO WAY petty.  He expressed his opinion and then back up his opinion with three SPECIFIC examples.

Thanks so much for your years of service and I wish you nothing but the best as our Celtics move in a new direction.

Smitty77

P.S.  Sorry for speaking for you Roy, but that sort of got under my skin.
You know, I would tend to agree with you, except for the fact that I found Roy's original post to be disrespectful and without any supporting information ("good riddance").  He has provided support for his opinion post-hoc so I guess that's ok, but this is an example of how such posts can get blown up.

I mean, you're all entitled to your opinions. It cracks me up that some folks think I come to my opinions without any basis, though, or because my favorite players got hurt.

A lot of our guys have returned much more slowly than anticipated from injury. KG. Big Al. Wally. Shaq. AB. Players have missed publicly released time tables by several months. That at least raises concerns, especially with our All-NBA player currently in need of rehab.

I myself am a bit glad that Lacerte is going to be replaced - and I can admit that this is just based on being on the outside looking in, not knowing any of the true details behind the injuries each of those players suffered.  How much blame Lacerte truly deserves is unknown.  No two injuries are exactly the same.

What I'm wondering is how much blame Dr. Brian McKeon, the team physician (orthepedic surgeon, specializing in joint areas according to his profile at New England Baptist hospital) deserves, particularly with KG's injury.  Supposedly the team knew about KG's bone spurs before 2009 started.  And while the injury that KG suffered is relatively rare for a basketball player, it's the team physician's job to decide on the best way to manage the problem.  If the surgery had been done in the 2008 offseason, would we be looking at another banner or two?  With regard to letting KG play again about a month later after getting injured in Utah, that's probably a major mistake on the part of the physical therapists (Lacerte and crew) and Dr. McKeon as well.

And shoutout to Vitor Faverani, another case that was botched by our medical staff, having arthroscopic surgery a full month after the initial injury to finally diagnose a torn meniscus.  About 7 months later, he had to have another surgery on that same knee - this after being deemed "healthy" and good to go for training camp - because he experienced knee pain and inflammation after working out in the first day of practice.  Not a good look for Dr. McKeon and the rest of our medical personnel. 

Perhaps we need not just new physical therapists, but a new team surgeon.


Broussard: "Did you call bank?"
Pierce: "I called game."

- Paul Pierce on his game-winning buzzer beater, game 3 EC Semi-finals against the Atlanta Hawks

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2017, 08:42:21 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.

As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.

Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?

Absurd.

would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?

When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.

And now time to contradict the post I just made by defending our team's medical staff. 

I agree that when our team's players as a whole seem to be having less-than-optimal outcomes, until you're actually trained to do the job that they do, and that you have all of the pertinent information in front of you, such as a thorough physical examination and radiologic imaging, it's difficult to say whether our medical staff fully deserve blame in each and every case.  In Vitor Faverani's case it's seems clear that our medical staff likely screwed up.  But we're not the only team in which players have had poor outcomes.  Danilo Gallinari ACL comes to mind.

No two injuries are completely alike.  Say for example, Adrian Peterson's ACL tear vs. Rondo's ACL tear.  Peterson made a remarkable comeback ahead of schedule and was as beastly as ever.  Rondo has his ACL repaired by the exact same surgeon (Dr. James Andrews), but took about the expected time to recover and his athleticism wasn't quite the same.  Is that the surgeon's fault?  Is that our PTs fault?  Difficult to tell. 


Broussard: "Did you call bank?"
Pierce: "I called game."

- Paul Pierce on his game-winning buzzer beater, game 3 EC Semi-finals against the Atlanta Hawks

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2017, 08:45:21 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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...no biggie

never know .....we might get some even better people in ......might take a few attemps ."..

there is million of these trainer types out and graduating every day.

im optimistic

I'm happy.  Never understood why guys would be out a month with an ankle sprain.

Ankle sprains can be severe. You can tear tendons and ligaments. Could take months to recover.

I can attest to that.  I'd rather have broken my foot than the sprains I've had.  Took a full year for my sprain to fully resolve.  Recovery time for a broken foot would have been shorter.


Broussard: "Did you call bank?"
Pierce: "I called game."

- Paul Pierce on his game-winning buzzer beater, game 3 EC Semi-finals against the Atlanta Hawks

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2017, 09:10:54 PM »

Offline 2short

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Please allow me to be old.  I remember when Ed joined the team, day one.  For me this is as if Tom Gorman was let go.  And I remember him starting big east games. 

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2017, 10:36:56 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Rondo and Perk both fell off a cliff after their respective injuries.

I've always wondered if those were handled properly.

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2017, 11:36:21 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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Long overdue and a huge win for the Celtics.

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2017, 12:25:24 AM »

Online GreenEnvy

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I think it sucks to see a familiar face like Ed (and Bryan) leave. It's kind of like seeing Mike and/or Tommy let go, but to a lesser extent.

With all the people that get moved in the world or professional sports, it was nice to see a guy on the sidelines game after game, season after season, decade after decade.

You guys can moan about injuries and rehabs that we really don't have any clue about, but he was one of the most well-respected trainers around the league.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2017, 12:25:25 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.

As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.

Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?

Absurd.

would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?

When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.

I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.

Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.

I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.

I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?

who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?

Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.

However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.

Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.

It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2017, 12:33:33 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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I think it sucks to see a familiar face like Ed (and Bryan) leave. It's kind of like seeing Mike and/or Tommy let go, but to a lesser extent.

With all the people that get moved in the world or professional sports, it was nice to see a guy on the sidelines game after game, season after season, decade after decade.

You guys can moan about injuries and rehabs that we really don't have any clue about, but he was one of the most well-respected trainers around the league.
Id be really sad if we let mike or Tommy go.

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2017, 12:37:24 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.

As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.

Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?

Absurd.

would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?

When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.

I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.

Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.

I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.

I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?

who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?

Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.

However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.

Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.

It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.

In order to evaluate a medical staff, you should know about medicine. In order to evaluate a basketball team, you should know about basketball. Otherwise, how useful is an evaluation?

Re: Ed Lacerte gone too
« Reply #59 on: July 16, 2017, 12:53:06 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Anyone here discrediting Lacerte is just taking a total 100% complete factless guess at this situation.

No one here can say Lacerte mishandled injuries, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. You are just guessing because your favorite player got hurt.  It's laughable that anyone in this thread is taking such a stance against these individuals while having ZERO knowledge of the situation.

Unless some players and owners come out and say they thought themselves or their players were mishandled by Lacerte, then you will have a right to say 'good riddance' to a real person who put his entire career and the prime of his life into keeping the Celtics players healthy.

Show some respect and don't act so petty.
You can absolutely evaluate the medical staff of a team. I don't think it's ridiculous at all.

As a MD, you Mahcus Smaht, may be able to.

As a PT student, I am miles away from judging them. I might be able to judge the medical team better than I would judge a nuclear physicist, but just barely. Even though I'm studying anatomy around the clock (when I'm not procrastinating on this site), I'm still way out of my element.
You don't need to be an expert in a field to evaluate the results.

Should a nuclear physicist only be fireable on the command of another nuclear physicist?

Absurd.

would you agree that Phoenix has an excellent medical staff?

When you have a large enough sample size you can evaluate a medical staff based on results.

I guess this is a point of disagreement. I do think one needs to be educated to make an educated opinion. If one wants to make uneducated (or undereducated) assertions, I guess that's fine. You just shouldn't get sensitive when people call you out for making silly comments.

Again, I'm not trying to come off as a jerk, but I read too many comments by people that don't seem to know what they're talking about.

I have no idea about the Phoenix staff. I haven't talked to any of their players, or other patients that have been treated. I don't know anything what they did before they went to Phoenix, and haven't read any research written by any of them. Which metrics would you use to evaluate them as a whole? "Keeping guys healthy" isn't a real answer.

I think the adage "the more you know, the less you think you know" applies.
Do the players themselves have the proper expertise to know if they are being correctly treated?

who in the Celtics FO can evaluate Lacerte?

Obviously the more knowledge of the field and information allows you to make a better judgement, but as with anything in this blog, us fans have limited info and that does not preclude us from making an evaluation. I have made no strong assertions on this situation because I have not examined thoroughly the Celtics injury histories relative to the rest of the NBA world.

However, I think it is well within reason that a fan could examine this information and make a reasonable evaluation of the medical staff. Now would it be perfect? No. If I were Danny Ainge and a fan sent me an email saying we should fire Ed Lacerte would I accept the conclusion? No. Danny Ainge and the Celtics FO have more information and likely more expertise with regards to injuries.

Same could be said about the posters who say good riddance when we dump Jordan Mickey. Most of us haven't coached at a high level or played NBA basketball or witnessed the practices or talked to his teammates.

It's the way it is. I'm not sure why the standard evaluating a medical staff is higher than it is a front office or a coach or a player.

In order to evaluate a medical staff, you should know about medicine. In order to evaluate a basketball team, you should know about basketball. Otherwise, how useful is an evaluation?
If I knew nothing about basketball but looked at the success of the Knocks and the celtics over the past 20 years, I would conclude that the Celtics have a superior FO. I'd probably be correct.

If I knew nothing about basketball games but could read the news and look at basketball scores I could make a form reasonable opinions.

Again, my stance on the Lecerte situation has been "Bummer. hopefully we can get better people he was well liked". However, I don't know why we have chosen to make the standard of evaluation so much higher for Ed Lacerte than we have for anything else ranging from player evaluation to global warming.