Author Topic: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James  (Read 10874 times)

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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2017, 01:52:30 PM »

Online Moranis

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Looks like Rose is going to end up on the Cavs at the vet minimum of 2.1 million (costs the Cavs 6.4 million with the tax).  This will give Rose a chance to show he can play in a lesser role (maybe more efficiently).  Obviously, the Cavs could still really use a defensive oriented guard but Rose is one of the better players still out there and with limited options, this isn't a bad move for them, as Rose can at least put the ball in the hole and should be able to brutalize back-up guards.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Rose and Irving playing together a lot.

I really think this is the quintessential Lebron GM move and is not what they need. He is the proverbial big name player, but one that doesn't address their biggest needs. Their biggest problem again is defense, not offense. They scored 113, 113, 137 and 120 in 4 of the finals games. The problem is they can't stop teams on the other end. Derrick Rose is a really bad defensive player. Along with Kyrie, they will have the worst defensive backcourt in the league when those two play together (probably with a serious challenge from the Lakers on that). d
Honestly I really think they would have done better with just keeping Delly. Or imagine if they could have found a way to get Beverly...
No question they felt the loss of Delly, but he wanted not only more money but also a greater role.  They really had no chance of keeping him.  That said, I think it wasn't the best fit in Milwaukee so maybe they could try to get him back for Shumpert (Shumpert has 1 less year so it helps Milwaukee's future tax problems). 

If the Cavs really don't care about the tax, then Monroe and Delly for Shumpert, Frye, Jefferson, Felder, and Tavares actually makes a bit of sense for both teams (it gets Milwaukee out of the tax this year and the Cavs get some pieces that make a bit more sense). 

Or maybe, Monroe, Delly, Teletovic for Smith, Shumpert, and Frye (again gets Milwaukee out of the tax and while Smith and Shumpert aren't good contracts, Teletovic and Delly aren't either and Monroe makes a ton of money this year). 

Again those only make sense if Milwaukee really didn't like the Delly fit and/or really want to get out of luxury tax range. 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2017, 01:58:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Looks like Rose is going to end up on the Cavs at the vet minimum of 2.1 million (costs the Cavs 6.4 million with the tax).  This will give Rose a chance to show he can play in a lesser role (maybe more efficiently).  Obviously, the Cavs could still really use a defensive oriented guard but Rose is one of the better players still out there and with limited options, this isn't a bad move for them, as Rose can at least put the ball in the hole and should be able to brutalize back-up guards.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Rose and Irving playing together a lot.

I really think this is the quintessential Lebron GM move and is not what they need. He is the proverbial big name player, but one that doesn't address their biggest needs. Their biggest problem again is defense, not offense. They scored 113, 113, 137 and 120 in 4 of the finals games. The problem is they can't stop teams on the other end. Derrick Rose is a really bad defensive player. Along with Kyrie, they will have the worst defensive backcourt in the league when those two play together (probably with a serious challenge from the Lakers on that). d
Honestly I really think they would have done better with just keeping Delly. Or imagine if they could have found a way to get Beverly...
No question they felt the loss of Delly, but he wanted not only more money but also a greater role.  They really had no chance of keeping him.  That said, I think it wasn't the best fit in Milwaukee so maybe they could try to get him back for Shumpert (Shumpert has 1 less year so it helps Milwaukee's future tax problems). 

If the Cavs really don't care about the tax, then Monroe and Delly for Shumpert, Frye, Jefferson, Felder, and Tavares actually makes a bit of sense for both teams (it gets Milwaukee out of the tax this year and the Cavs get some pieces that make a bit more sense). 

Or maybe, Monroe, Delly, Teletovic for Smith, Shumpert, and Frye (again gets Milwaukee out of the tax and while Smith and Shumpert aren't good contracts, Teletovic and Delly aren't either and Monroe makes a ton of money this year). 

Again those only make sense if Milwaukee really didn't like the Delly fit and/or really want to get out of luxury tax range.

If they made this trade I would definitely think it would really help the Cavs and would dramatically help their chances of winning a championship. It would actually focus on addressing their needs (someone that can score in the post, rebound when Thompson is off/needs a break) and someone that could guard all the elite point guards in the NBA without allowing them to exploit Irving and tire him out at the same time. All the teams they would play against in the east (Wall, IT, Lowry) have good scoring point guards that Irving is forced to guard. In the West it is even more pronounced now with Westbrook, Harden and Paul and Thompson and Curry. Starting an Irving Rose backcourt against those teams in the west is a disaster before the game even stars.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2017, 02:01:11 PM »

Online Moranis

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James. 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2017, 02:09:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2017, 02:39:17 PM »

Online Moranis

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty. 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2017, 02:39:34 PM »

Offline RLewis35

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.

So why is everyone talking about the lakers then? The lakers have a worse cap situation than the sixers and less talent.  Embiid if he plays a whole season could be an all NBA player this year so lebron and one other max gives them 3 legit stars plus fultz and Simmons.

I agree lebron may not want to deal w young kids but then why is everyone talking about the lakers / that won't happen either.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2017, 02:48:27 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty.

That is what you said. Unless Simmons or Fultz makes an all-star game and magically enter their prime at 20 or 21 years old the 76ers have either 0 players or 1 if you count Embiid. They will have zero multiple time all-stars. Pretty clear this would be a different thing than joining Love and Irving (both had already been multi time all-stars). The Heat also obviously he was joining two multiple time all-stars. You clearly have contradicted yourself. Will be humorous trying to watch you squirm out of this one since you are always right.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2017, 03:28:01 PM »

Online Moranis

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty.

That is what you said. Unless Simmons or Fultz makes an all-star game and magically enter their prime at 20 or 21 years old the 76ers have either 0 players or 1 if you count Embiid. They will have zero multiple time all-stars. Pretty clear this would be a different thing than joining Love and Irving (both had already been multi time all-stars). The Heat also obviously he was joining two multiple time all-stars. You clearly have contradicted yourself. Will be humorous trying to watch you squirm out of this one since you are always right.
Love wasn't on the Cavs when James signed.  The Cavs were Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, Bennett, and a bunch of role players (like Varejao) or completely unknown players (like Delly).  The Cavs were coming off the best season post-James and were 33-49.  James went back to Cleveland because they had Irving, Wiggins, Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters.  All young players, all had the potential to grow immensely or be traded for stars.  Yes Irving had made 2 all star games, which sets him apart a bit from the Sixers (though I expect Embiid to make the all star game this year if he can stay reasonably healthy), but this notion that James signed on to a team that was ready to make the Finals in year 1 is just silly.  The Cavs had to make a ton of moves to get that team to a real contender status, they just had the players/assets to make it happen.  That is where the comparison with Philly is.  Lots of young players/assets that can potentially be great players that James can play with or that can be traded for stars.  And unlike the Cavs who had to make salary dumping moves, Philly doesn't have to dump anyone to sign James and if they can dump some of their lesser players might be able to get another star to sign there in free agency along with James (while still keeping the young core in tact).

For the record, if Boston has cap space next summer, it too would be a very reasonable destination for James for the same reasons, but Boston isn't going to have cap space next summer without Ainge making a lot of moves (including trading Horford for no long term salary). 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2017, 03:52:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty.

That is what you said. Unless Simmons or Fultz makes an all-star game and magically enter their prime at 20 or 21 years old the 76ers have either 0 players or 1 if you count Embiid. They will have zero multiple time all-stars. Pretty clear this would be a different thing than joining Love and Irving (both had already been multi time all-stars). The Heat also obviously he was joining two multiple time all-stars. You clearly have contradicted yourself. Will be humorous trying to watch you squirm out of this one since you are always right.
Love wasn't on the Cavs when James signed.  The Cavs were Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, Bennett, and a bunch of role players (like Varejao) or completely unknown players (like Delly).  The Cavs were coming off the best season post-James and were 33-49.  James went back to Cleveland because they had Irving, Wiggins, Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters.  All young players, all had the potential to grow immensely or be traded for stars.  Yes Irving had made 2 all star games, which sets him apart a bit from the Sixers (though I expect Embiid to make the all star game this year if he can stay reasonably healthy), but this notion that James signed on to a team that was ready to make the Finals in year 1 is just silly.  The Cavs had to make a ton of moves to get that team to a real contender status, they just had the players/assets to make it happen.  That is where the comparison with Philly is.  Lots of young players/assets that can potentially be great players that James can play with or that can be traded for stars.  And unlike the Cavs who had to make salary dumping moves, Philly doesn't have to dump anyone to sign James and if they can dump some of their lesser players might be able to get another star to sign there in free agency along with James (while still keeping the young core in tact).

For the record, if Boston has cap space next summer, it too would be a very reasonable destination for James for the same reasons, but Boston isn't going to have cap space next summer without Ainge making a lot of moves (including trading Horford for no long term salary).

Are you (*&(*4 serious with this? Wiggins wasn't even included in the announcement letter or referenced as playing with Lebron at any time. You are going to sit here and act like you think Lebron was going to Cleveland to join Waiter, Bennett and Wiggins???

I wasn't sure you would ever top your comments on the decision in terms of absolute absurdity, but you have done it, and in record time. Everybody gather round Moranis is spinning some tales! Thank you for this!

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2017, 08:24:13 PM »

Online Moranis

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty.

That is what you said. Unless Simmons or Fultz makes an all-star game and magically enter their prime at 20 or 21 years old the 76ers have either 0 players or 1 if you count Embiid. They will have zero multiple time all-stars. Pretty clear this would be a different thing than joining Love and Irving (both had already been multi time all-stars). The Heat also obviously he was joining two multiple time all-stars. You clearly have contradicted yourself. Will be humorous trying to watch you squirm out of this one since you are always right.
Love wasn't on the Cavs when James signed.  The Cavs were Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, Bennett, and a bunch of role players (like Varejao) or completely unknown players (like Delly).  The Cavs were coming off the best season post-James and were 33-49.  James went back to Cleveland because they had Irving, Wiggins, Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters.  All young players, all had the potential to grow immensely or be traded for stars.  Yes Irving had made 2 all star games, which sets him apart a bit from the Sixers (though I expect Embiid to make the all star game this year if he can stay reasonably healthy), but this notion that James signed on to a team that was ready to make the Finals in year 1 is just silly.  The Cavs had to make a ton of moves to get that team to a real contender status, they just had the players/assets to make it happen.  That is where the comparison with Philly is.  Lots of young players/assets that can potentially be great players that James can play with or that can be traded for stars.  And unlike the Cavs who had to make salary dumping moves, Philly doesn't have to dump anyone to sign James and if they can dump some of their lesser players might be able to get another star to sign there in free agency along with James (while still keeping the young core in tact).

For the record, if Boston has cap space next summer, it too would be a very reasonable destination for James for the same reasons, but Boston isn't going to have cap space next summer without Ainge making a lot of moves (including trading Horford for no long term salary).

Are you (*&(*4 serious with this? Wiggins wasn't even included in the announcement letter or referenced as playing with Lebron at any time. You are going to sit here and act like you think Lebron was going to Cleveland to join Waiter, Bennett and Wiggins???

I wasn't sure you would ever top your comments on the decision in terms of absolute absurdity, but you have done it, and in record time. Everybody gather round Moranis is spinning some tales! Thank you for this!
of course. They were young player assets that could be traded for veterans.  Love isn't a Cav if the Cavs don't have Wiggins and Bennett.  Without Waiters the Cavs don't get Smith and Shumpert.  I'm sure James never expected to play very long with those players but he absolutely knew what they could be turned into, especially Wiggins, but the Cavs still had to make those moves.  If you think James doesn't recognize the talent in Philly or the similarities between Philly and Cleveland then you probably shouldn't be posting on a basketball forum.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2017, 08:43:08 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.
You and your love affair with bench role players.  James left a Cleveland team with no all stars (I just don't count Mo Williams) to go to a team with 2 all stars in its prime (Wade and Bosh).  He then left that team when the 2 all stars got older (and ownership started to cheap out) to go to a team with a rising young star in Irving (and a young quality starter - Thompson) and the assets (Wiggins) available to acquire another young star (which ultimately became Love). 

James would absolutely go to a team like Philly, if, and this is a very big IF, Philly makes a pretty good jump this year based on the play of the young guys.  The bench can then be filled in with the vets that you are talking about. 

Every time James has left his team it was to go to a team that could provide him at least 2 all star level players in their prime (or in the case of Irving before his prime).  Going to Philly would actually be the exact type of move James would make, but Philly has to make that jump and look like they could be realistic title contenders with James.

You are really contradicting yourself here. You say he always goes to teams with two all star level players in their primes. Unless you are suggesting that Simmons or Fultz will be in their prime as rookies and make the all-star team he would be joining a team with zero all-star players in their prime (or maybe you are counting Embiid as an all-star in his prime if he plays 80 games this year).
Not contradicting at all, but that is why I emphasized pretty clearly that Philly has to make a jump based on the play of the young guys.  If Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all look like future stars (and Embiid was very nearly an all star last year playing part time basketball), then why wouldn't James consider going there.  He could lead them for a couple of years and then let them do all the work when he is aging (much like Kareem rode Magic/Worthy to multiple titles). 

And Philly can get close to a second max contract by simply dumping Bayless and Okafor off on some other team.  So Philly might be able to bring in James and say Westbrook or Cousins and still have all 3 of those young guys (they might have to give up Saric, Holmes, etc. to make the room).   Even doing all that, Philly still has sufficient assets that they might even be able to pull off a Wiggins for Love type trade and acquire a 3rd star (or a second if they don't get him in free agency).  I mean what if Anthony Davis becomes available.  Philly could counter Boston's assets pretty closely (and if Davis forces the issue, he might end up in Philly, which he might do if him and James talk). 

If Fultz, Simmons, and/or Embiid look like future stars this year, then Philly almost has to be a team that James would look at next summer.  If his goal is to win multiple titles, then staying in the East helps that goal and attaching yourself to a team that has 3 potential all stars all in their early 20's makes a heck of a lot sense.  You then fill out the bench with veterans and you have the makings of a dynasty.

That is what you said. Unless Simmons or Fultz makes an all-star game and magically enter their prime at 20 or 21 years old the 76ers have either 0 players or 1 if you count Embiid. They will have zero multiple time all-stars. Pretty clear this would be a different thing than joining Love and Irving (both had already been multi time all-stars). The Heat also obviously he was joining two multiple time all-stars. You clearly have contradicted yourself. Will be humorous trying to watch you squirm out of this one since you are always right.
Love wasn't on the Cavs when James signed.  The Cavs were Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins, Bennett, and a bunch of role players (like Varejao) or completely unknown players (like Delly).  The Cavs were coming off the best season post-James and were 33-49.  James went back to Cleveland because they had Irving, Wiggins, Thompson, Bennett, and Waiters.  All young players, all had the potential to grow immensely or be traded for stars.  Yes Irving had made 2 all star games, which sets him apart a bit from the Sixers (though I expect Embiid to make the all star game this year if he can stay reasonably healthy), but this notion that James signed on to a team that was ready to make the Finals in year 1 is just silly.  The Cavs had to make a ton of moves to get that team to a real contender status, they just had the players/assets to make it happen.  That is where the comparison with Philly is.  Lots of young players/assets that can potentially be great players that James can play with or that can be traded for stars.  And unlike the Cavs who had to make salary dumping moves, Philly doesn't have to dump anyone to sign James and if they can dump some of their lesser players might be able to get another star to sign there in free agency along with James (while still keeping the young core in tact).

For the record, if Boston has cap space next summer, it too would be a very reasonable destination for James for the same reasons, but Boston isn't going to have cap space next summer without Ainge making a lot of moves (including trading Horford for no long term salary).

Are you (*&(*4 serious with this? Wiggins wasn't even included in the announcement letter or referenced as playing with Lebron at any time. You are going to sit here and act like you think Lebron was going to Cleveland to join Waiter, Bennett and Wiggins???

I wasn't sure you would ever top your comments on the decision in terms of absolute absurdity, but you have done it, and in record time. Everybody gather round Moranis is spinning some tales! Thank you for this!
of course. They were young player assets that could be traded for veterans.  Love isn't a Cav if the Cavs don't have Wiggins and Bennett.  Without Waiters the Cavs don't get Smith and Shumpert.  I'm sure James never expected to play very long with those players but he absolutely knew what they could be turned into, especially Wiggins, but the Cavs still had to make those moves.  If you think James doesn't recognize the talent in Philly or the similarities between Philly and Cleveland then you probably shouldn't be posting on a basketball forum.

Oh yea? I got to pack up shop cause I don't wash the royal eggplant quite as voraciously as you on a Celtics blog forum?