Author Topic: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James  (Read 10925 times)

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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2017, 08:39:44 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If James goes somewhere else, the logical places would be the biggest markets that can afford him--and that would be NY and LA. The Knicks and the Lakers could absorb his contract. And the Lakers then would be expected to sign George next year, which would make them serious contenders. You figure the Knicks would be contenders as well. James would be the drawing card for other FAs.

Any team that gets James becomes a contender. What you hope is he gets out of the East.
James would only leave for a team that gives him a better chance to win titles. The market doesn't matter at all to him. If he doesn't see a team that increases his title chances he won't leave unless Gilbert keeps doing dumb things (which is certainly possible).

I agree that market size likely won't be a major factor for LeBron.

I'm curious to hear your take on this since you seem pretty plugged in to the Cavs. What's your take on why the fan base embraced him so quickly when he returned from Miami? And do you know of any fans that refused to root for the Cavs once LeBron returned and/or root for them begrudgingly in spite of their dislike of LeBron?
I actually disagree.  He is learning that a small market team like the Cavs can't improve any further.  Gilbert has paid the tax and it's still not enough.  He has to go to a big market so the owner can afford better teammates.
The Cavs have the highest payroll in league history.  It has nothing to do with market size, it has to do with the Cavs giving out some poor long term contracts to players they shouldn't have and them having limited roster spots and draft picks to add to the team.  That said, unless his new team provides better players than Irving, Love, and Thompson, then what is the point in him leaving especially going to the west to have to go through Golden State, San Antonio, Houston, etc.  James is also going to need a max or near max contract, so they have to have the room for that and be able to build a better team than the Cavs. 

There are a few teams that could do that and look like real threats to the Warriors with Lebron (the Spurs and possibly the Sixers come immediately to mind), so James leaving is certainly not out of the question, but he isn't going to leave to go to a team that won't even make the Finals (which is what the Lakers are with just James and George - now if the Lakers also add Westbrook, then that is a different situation). 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2017, 08:44:04 AM »

Offline Granath

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If James goes somewhere else, the logical places would be the biggest markets that can afford him--and that would be NY and LA. The Knicks and the Lakers could absorb his contract. And the Lakers then would be expected to sign George next year, which would make them serious contenders. You figure the Knicks would be contenders as well. James would be the drawing card for other FAs.

Any team that gets James becomes a contender. What you hope is he gets out of the East.
James would only leave for a team that gives him a better chance to win titles. The market doesn't matter at all to him. If he doesn't see a team that increases his title chances he won't leave unless Gilbert keeps doing dumb things (which is certainly possible).

I agree that market size likely won't be a major factor for LeBron.

I'm curious to hear your take on this since you seem pretty plugged in to the Cavs. What's your take on why the fan base embraced him so quickly when he returned from Miami? And do you know of any fans that refused to root for the Cavs once LeBron returned and/or root for them begrudgingly in spite of their dislike of LeBron?
I actually disagree.  He is learning that a small market team like the Cavs can't improve any further.  Gilbert has paid the tax and it's still not enough.  He has to go to a big market so the owner can afford better teammates.

The tax is so expensive that even big market teams will shy away from paying it. The Cavs have $130m in payroll. They're capped out. It's not that they won't make a move. It's that they've painted themselves into a cap corner.

So that's not the issue in Cleveland. It's that their roster is devoid of attractive assets that won't compromise the core of the team. Of the 18 guys on the roster, there are only two guys on that roster under 25 years of age. 10 are over 30. There's a lot of big guaranteed money on the table already. Their picks aren't worth much unless they're out in 2021 or 2022, not to mention that POR owns their 2019 pick (1-10 protected). All they really have is the mid-level exception to make a move with unless they want to start moving around the Big 3 (like Love).

So even if the Cavs want to make a deal - and they can't take back much more salary because they're over the limit - what do they have to trade that doesn't compromise the core integrity of the team? Shumpert? Derrick Williams? Those aren't top notch assets.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2017, 12:54:35 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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If James goes somewhere else, the logical places would be the biggest markets that can afford him--and that would be NY and LA. The Knicks and the Lakers could absorb his contract. And the Lakers then would be expected to sign George next year, which would make them serious contenders. You figure the Knicks would be contenders as well. James would be the drawing card for other FAs.

Any team that gets James becomes a contender. What you hope is he gets out of the East.
James would only leave for a team that gives him a better chance to win titles. The market doesn't matter at all to him. If he doesn't see a team that increases his title chances he won't leave unless Gilbert keeps doing dumb things (which is certainly possible).

I agree that market size likely won't be a major factor for LeBron.

I'm curious to hear your take on this since you seem pretty plugged in to the Cavs. What's your take on why the fan base embraced him so quickly when he returned from Miami? And do you know of any fans that refused to root for the Cavs once LeBron returned and/or root for them begrudgingly in spite of their dislike of LeBron?
I actually disagree.  He is learning that a small market team like the Cavs can't improve any further.  Gilbert has paid the tax and it's still not enough.  He has to go to a big market so the owner can afford better teammates.

The tax is so expensive that even big market teams will shy away from paying it. The Cavs have $130m in payroll. They're capped out. It's not that they won't make a move. It's that they've painted themselves into a cap corner.

So that's not the issue in Cleveland. It's that their roster is devoid of attractive assets that won't compromise the core of the team. Of the 18 guys on the roster, there are only two guys on that roster under 25 years of age. 10 are over 30. There's a lot of big guaranteed money on the table already. Their picks aren't worth much unless they're out in 2021 or 2022, not to mention that POR owns their 2019 pick (1-10 protected). All they really have is the mid-level exception to make a move with unless they want to start moving around the Big 3 (like Love).

So even if the Cavs want to make a deal - and they can't take back much more salary because they're over the limit - what do they have to trade that doesn't compromise the core integrity of the team? Shumpert? Derrick Williams? Those aren't top notch assets.

Shumpert actually has a somewhat bad contract and they have been trying to get rid of him in a salary dump. He makes a little over 10 million this year and 11 million next year. He hasn't been able to really develop his shot and has shot 37 and 41% the last two years. At 27 it is unclear how much more he will improve.


Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2017, 01:29:57 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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I kind of feel LeBron will stomp his feet and cry until the Cavs fold and give him a new playmate so the legacy train can continue. It could be Anthony, or someone else, but he'll get his way, and the Cavs will pay a record luxury tax.

I can't see him going to LA because they're in the West, and all "rings" go through Golden State. And the Lakers, with Lonzo, are a ways away from challenging even with James.

No he'll stay in Cleveland, gut them like a fish, or look to be traded to Boston. The Cavs ownership will love the suggestion, they can empty the Celtics of every draft pick available, and a good young player or two.

I wonder how many Celtics fan would be on board?

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2017, 01:38:38 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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I kind of feel LeBron will stomp his feet and cry until the Cavs fold and give him a new playmate so the legacy train can continue. It could be Anthony, or someone else, but he'll get his way, and the Cavs will pay a record luxury tax.

I can't see him going to LA because they're in the West, and all "rings" go through Golden State. And the Lakers, with Lonzo, are a ways away from challenging even with James.

No he'll stay in Cleveland, gut them like a fish, or look to be traded to Boston. The Cavs ownership will love the suggestion, they can empty the Celtics of every draft pick available, and a good young player or two.

I wonder how many Celtics fan would be on board?

I agree that he will kick and scream till he gets his way, though it still won't be enough to get past GS.  Then true to form, he will look for an easier path.

I'm happy with our current team that's trending upwards, and have no desire to hand over the reigns of our entire organization to him.  I literally wouldn't take LeBron if he came for "free." 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2017, 01:42:22 PM »

Offline RLewis35

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2017, 04:56:50 AM »

Offline ederson

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I don't think they can sig 2-3 max players and be able to keep Embiid but sixers could be a nice place for Lebron.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2017, 06:38:56 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...
The Sixers won't have enough cap space to sign more than one max player and it wouldn't be a smart idea even if they could do it.  They need to stick with their youth rebuild and be selective about free agent signings.  Lebron and Simmons would be an awkward fit.  With both and Embiid, the paint would be clogged.  Lebron also brings a lot of baggage.  If he wants to go there, they probably have to do it but it isn't necessarily going to make them dominant in the East.   

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2017, 07:30:52 AM »

Offline RLewis35

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I don't think they can sig 2-3 max players and be able to keep Embiid but sixers could be a nice place for Lebron.

I think if they can find a taker for Jeryd Bayless's contract and renounce certain guys they can def fit 2 in.  3 I agree - not possible. 

Just seems If going with PG13 to join lonzo and Brandon Ingram is so desirable, doing the same thing but joining embiid, fultz, Simmons and saric and stay far out of the west may be smarter - just not as glitzy.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2017, 08:00:11 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I kind of feel LeBron will stomp his feet and cry until the Cavs fold and give him a new playmate so the legacy train can continue. It could be Anthony, or someone else, but he'll get his way, and the Cavs will pay a record luxury tax.

I can't see him going to LA because they're in the West, and all "rings" go through Golden State. And the Lakers, with Lonzo, are a ways away from challenging even with James.

No he'll stay in Cleveland, gut them like a fish, or look to be traded to Boston. The Cavs ownership will love the suggestion, they can empty the Celtics of every draft pick available, and a good young player or two.

I wonder how many Celtics fan would be on board?
If they have to trade Love for Anthony, I don't think that makes them a better team.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2017, 08:17:21 AM »

Offline Granath

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2017, 08:30:04 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2017, 01:27:49 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Looks like Rose is going to end up on the Cavs at the vet minimum of 2.1 million (costs the Cavs 6.4 million with the tax).  This will give Rose a chance to show he can play in a lesser role (maybe more efficiently).  Obviously, the Cavs could still really use a defensive oriented guard but Rose is one of the better players still out there and with limited options, this isn't a bad move for them, as Rose can at least put the ball in the hole and should be able to brutalize back-up guards.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Rose and Irving playing together a lot. 
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Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2017, 01:36:57 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Looks like Rose is going to end up on the Cavs at the vet minimum of 2.1 million (costs the Cavs 6.4 million with the tax).  This will give Rose a chance to show he can play in a lesser role (maybe more efficiently).  Obviously, the Cavs could still really use a defensive oriented guard but Rose is one of the better players still out there and with limited options, this isn't a bad move for them, as Rose can at least put the ball in the hole and should be able to brutalize back-up guards.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see Rose and Irving playing together a lot.

I really think this is the quintessential Lebron GM move and is not what they need. He is the proverbial big name player, but one that doesn't address their biggest needs. Their biggest problem again is defense, not offense. They scored 113, 113, 137 and 120 in 4 of the finals games. The problem is they can't stop teams on the other end. Derrick Rose is a really bad defensive player. Along with Kyrie, they will have the worst defensive backcourt in the league when those two play together (probably with a serious challenge from the Lakers on that). d
Honestly I really think they would have done better with just keeping Delly. Or imagine if they could have found a way to get Beverly...

Re: Ringer: Cavs Standing Idle, Might Cost Them LeBron James
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2017, 01:44:13 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Everyone keeps worrying about the Lakers nabbing Lebron, and I get it bc it's showtime, hollywood, etc. etc. etc.

But if Lebron really wants to catch Jordan, he's not going to LA.  Unfortunately, I think PHILLY is the organization we have to worry about.  Not only do they have a cheap young core of Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric and enough cap space to take 2-3 max FAs next season when Lebron is a FA, but the org. is run by the Colangelos now who Lebron knows well from the Olympics, at a minimum.

Philly is the team to be scared of here...

Why would Lebron want to play with a bunch of 21 year old kids who aren't mature enough to win a title? This makes no sense whatsoever.
what if they win 40+ games this year?  In that scenario they would look like a team on the verge and you would assume all those young kids would only get better.  Lebron could then be on a team that could be a contender for the remainder of his career even as he gets worse.

The Sixers can't really afford two max contracts though as Embiid's cap hold puts them at just under 60 million and Covington's is another 1.5 million (though if they dumped Okafor and Bayless for no return salary, they might get close to 2 maxes).  It would be an interesting team if they could some how finagle James and another max level player to pair with Fultz, Simmons, Embiid, Covington, Saric, and the collection of young bench depth (Holmes, McConnell, Korkmaz, Luwawu-Caborrat, Anderson, 2018 rookie) plus whatever veteran minimum guys would end up there.

Again though, I don't see it as a realistic option unless the Sixers young guys put together a .500 or better type team and show that they have high end championship-caliber promise (I personally think they do, but don't think James ends up there unless they can create room for a second max as I don't think James wants to shoulder that much of the load, but if the Sixers also added in Westbrook, George, etc. then I think he would really consider them).

Lebron signing with a team of a bunch of young guys would go against everything he has done and supported for moves by his teams in his entire career which is trying to play alongside big name vets or ones with good reputations (frequently on the back end of their career). Going back to his first stint in Cleveland he was bringing a washed up big name shaq, antwawn jamison, Ben Wallace, In Miami it was Ray Allen, Greg Oden, Eddie Curry, mike bibby, Rashard Lewis etc. In Cleveland the second time it has been Korver, Deron Williams, Mike Miller, Mo Williams, Richard Jefferson (to say nothing of his demand for trading Wiggins for Love). He loves Vets and really has shown no interest in playing with young guys.