Author Topic: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick  (Read 11143 times)

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Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2017, 04:59:21 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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I don't believe the Lakers are gonna be a bottom 5 team, but they aren't gonna be a playoff team either.

1. Golden State
2. San Antonio
3. Houston (CP3 + Harden)
4. Minny (KAT + Butler + Wiggins + Teague)
5. OKC (Westbrook + George + Adams)
6. Portland (Lillard + McCollum + the Nurkic effect)
7. LA Clips (Griffin + Jordan + Gallo)
8. New Orleans (Davis + Boogie + Holiday)
9. Denver (Jokic + Millsap)
10. Memphis (Conley + Marc Gasol)
11. Utah (Gobert + Favors + Hood + Rubio + good coach in Snyder)

(not necessarily in that order)

I cannot see the Lakers being better than any of those teams. Worst case scenario (for the C's) they 'll be the 12th best team in the West.

Hopefully, they are gonna be worse than some Eastern Conference teams as well. Problem is, there are far too many tankers/bad teams in the East.

If I had to guess, I 'd say the following teams are gonna be worse than the Lakers next season.

Phoenix
Dallas
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
NY
Orlando

In this scenario, only way for us to get the pick is if the Lakers move up to #2 (3.3%) or #3 (3.9%) in the lottery. To put it another way, we would have a 7.2% chance to get the pick.
I agree on all of the teams you predict to finish better than the Lakers. 

I would go further and suggest Phx has a legit shot of being better than LA.  Bledsoe, Chriss, Booker, Chandler, Dudley, Warren, Knight and Josh Jackson make for a better core of players than what LA has.  That's not even depending on Bender or Len to provide much this year.

Dallas has Dirk, Noel, McRoberts, Wes Mathews, Harrison Barnes, Devin Harris, Dwight Powell and bright shiny new rookie in Dennis Smith.  I like that core better than LA's too and we know Cuban doesn't want to tank while Dirk is still playing.

You omitted Sac who I also think has a better overall roster: Vince, Zach, George Hill, Kouros, Ty Lawson and some good looking youth Skal, WCS, Giles, Justin Jackson, Hield and Fox looks like a prize rookie.  Borden Bogdanovic could work out well for them.   

Lakers are very much contenders for the bottom of the West.  Their D should continue to be horrid.  KCP really needs to make a leap to move the needle for this team.  still relying on Lopez to stay healthy.  Deng is a shadow of his old self.  Randle is empty stats.  some youth that may turn into some decent players but they seem to just focus on scoring and not much else.

in the East, I think it's the Nets and Orlando competing with them for the worst record in the league with possibly Atlanta nosing their way in.  I think there's a higher level of talent left in Indy, NY and Chicago for them to drop that low in the overall standing.  The other aspect is the teams in the East will pick up wins against each other whereas LA will be the West's whipping boy this season further piling on the losses.

The Magic just got a little better inking Jonathan Simmons to a reasonable 3-year deal1!!!

Go Magic:-))))  Please win MORE than the Fakers!!!!

Smitty77

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2017, 05:09:27 PM »

Offline RIPRED

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After watching the last LA Summer League game I think we can safely say LA will not be a bottom 6 team next season.

I hadn't watched the previous game where Ball went off for 36 points. But, from what I saw last night, he's the real deal. Both offensively and defensively, he's a game changer. He's definitely a transcendent player on the passing end of things. I think both Brown and Tatum can learn a thing or two from him. He has an amazing way of thinking 'pass' all the time. He's lightening quick in his thinking. Often, even if he doesn't get the assist, his initial pass leads to a secondary player being wide open. 

Forget the LA pick. It ain't happening. Ingram scored 26 before he was shut down. Add KCP and possibly 50 games from Lopez, a healthy Randle(?), Clarkson is legit..i don't know the rest of roster that well...I'm sure I'm missing someone good. 

In time, the Celtics might wish they hadn't passed on Ball, not Fultz. (I know he didn't want to play here, his father, yada, yada, ....)

This feels like an extreme overreaction to summer league. Let's see what happens when the Lakers NBA players match up against other actual NBA players.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2017, 05:16:58 PM »

Offline HostAndGreetYourRoastBeef

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You know, I hate the Lakers and everything, but it doesn't mean I can't recognize talent when I see it. And Ball has loads of talent. I think the Lakers will actually be pretty decent this season just due to him.

Also, I like his dad as well. Seems like the old-school, jib-jab kinda dude. If you actually listen to him talk, he's not arrogant, he's mostly just joking around and talking trash.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2017, 05:18:25 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Kind of ridiculous to conclude they will make the playoffs cuz ball outplays a bunch of undrafted guys. Lets see him do it against the bradleys and Westbrooks of the world first

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2017, 05:39:07 PM »

Offline mctyson

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One of the benefits of trading AB to Detroit...now LA and Brooklyn will have to play him and Marcus twice as much.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2017, 06:52:20 PM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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I don't believe the Lakers are gonna be a bottom 5 team, but they aren't gonna be a playoff team either.

1. Golden State
2. San Antonio
3. Houston (CP3 + Harden)
4. Minny (KAT + Butler + Wiggins + Teague)
5. OKC (Westbrook + George + Adams)
6. Portland (Lillard + McCollum + the Nurkic effect)
7. LA Clips (Griffin + Jordan + Gallo)
8. New Orleans (Davis + Boogie + Holiday)
9. Denver (Jokic + Millsap)
10. Memphis (Conley + Marc Gasol)
11. Utah (Gobert + Favors + Hood + Rubio + good coach in Snyder)

(not necessarily in that order)

I cannot see the Lakers being better than any of those teams. Worst case scenario (for the C's) they 'll be the 12th best team in the West.

Hopefully, they are gonna be worse than some Eastern Conference teams as well. Problem is, there are far too many tankers/bad teams in the East.

If I had to guess, I 'd say the following teams are gonna be worse than the Lakers next season.

Phoenix
Dallas
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
NY
Orlando

In this scenario, only way for us to get the pick is if the Lakers move up to #2 (3.3%) or #3 (3.9%) in the lottery. To put it another way, we would have a 7.2% chance to get the pick.

Not sure why you consider Dallas worse? They have Barnes who is better than anyone on the Lakers roster. Smith Jr will have as good a rookie year as Ball and I think Dirk is coming back right?

In the East there are many bad teams but they all have to play each other. They have to win some games and I think that'll take a few of them ahead of LA.

So I have them 4th or 5th worst record. So lady luck will decide whether we keep the pick or not.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2017, 07:06:32 PM »

Offline More Banners

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I don't believe the Lakers are gonna be a bottom 5 team, but they aren't gonna be a playoff team either.

1. Golden State
2. San Antonio
3. Houston (CP3 + Harden)
4. Minny (KAT + Butler + Wiggins + Teague)
5. OKC (Westbrook + George + Adams)
6. Portland (Lillard + McCollum + the Nurkic effect)
7. LA Clips (Griffin + Jordan + Gallo)
8. New Orleans (Davis + Boogie + Holiday)
9. Denver (Jokic + Millsap)
10. Memphis (Conley + Marc Gasol)
11. Utah (Gobert + Favors + Hood + Rubio + good coach in Snyder)

(not necessarily in that order)

I cannot see the Lakers being better than any of those teams. Worst case scenario (for the C's) they 'll be the 12th best team in the West.

Hopefully, they are gonna be worse than some Eastern Conference teams as well. Problem is, there are far too many tankers/bad teams in the East.

If I had to guess, I 'd say the following teams are gonna be worse than the Lakers next season.

Phoenix
Dallas
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
NY
Orlando

In this scenario, only way for us to get the pick is if the Lakers move up to #2 (3.3%) or #3 (3.9%) in the lottery. To put it another way, we would have a 7.2% chance to get the pick.

Not sure why you consider Dallas worse? They have Barnes who is better than anyone on the Lakers roster. Smith Jr will have as good a rookie year as Ball and I think Dirk is coming back right?

In the East there are many bad teams but they all have to play each other. They have to win some games and I think that'll take a few of them ahead of LA.

So I have them 4th or 5th worst record. So lady luck will decide whether we keep the pick or not.

Yup. TP. Playing against the west vs 4 games against each east opponent is the difference between top 5 and top 10.

It's a lottery coming after a season where it's anyone's guess, but I like our chances.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2017, 07:26:02 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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I don't believe the Lakers are gonna be a bottom 5 team, but they aren't gonna be a playoff team either.

1. Golden State
2. San Antonio
3. Houston (CP3 + Harden)
4. Minny (KAT + Butler + Wiggins + Teague)
5. OKC (Westbrook + George + Adams)
6. Portland (Lillard + McCollum + the Nurkic effect)
7. LA Clips (Griffin + Jordan + Gallo)
8. New Orleans (Davis + Boogie + Holiday)
9. Denver (Jokic + Millsap)
10. Memphis (Conley + Marc Gasol)
11. Utah (Gobert + Favors + Hood + Rubio + good coach in Snyder)

(not necessarily in that order)

I cannot see the Lakers being better than any of those teams. Worst case scenario (for the C's) they 'll be the 12th best team in the West.

Hopefully, they are gonna be worse than some Eastern Conference teams as well. Problem is, there are far too many tankers/bad teams in the East.

If I had to guess, I 'd say the following teams are gonna be worse than the Lakers next season.

Phoenix
Dallas
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
NY
Orlando

In this scenario, only way for us to get the pick is if the Lakers move up to #2 (3.3%) or #3 (3.9%) in the lottery. To put it another way, we would have a 7.2% chance to get the pick.

Not sure why you consider Dallas worse? They have Barnes who is better than anyone on the Lakers roster. Smith Jr will have as good a rookie year as Ball and I think Dirk is coming back right?

In the East there are many bad teams but they all have to play each other. They have to win some games and I think that'll take a few of them ahead of LA.

So I have them 4th or 5th worst record. So lady luck will decide whether we keep the pick or not.
Problem is, the Lakers will have zero incentive to lose games whereas other teams might decide to tank the season. For instance, last year the Lakers started 10-10 and from then on their record was 16-46.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2017, 08:59:01 PM »

Offline rochrist

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You know, I hate the Lakers and everything, but it doesn't mean I can't recognize talent when I see it. And Ball has loads of talent. I think the Lakers will actually be pretty decent this season just due to him.

Also, I like his dad as well. Seems like the old-school, jib-jab kinda dude. If you actually listen to him talk, he's not arrogant, he's mostly just joking around and talking trash.

They aren't going very far with him shooting 30 percent and him being abused on defense.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2017, 09:14:33 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I don't believe the Lakers are gonna be a bottom 5 team, but they aren't gonna be a playoff team either.

1. Golden State
2. San Antonio
3. Houston (CP3 + Harden)
4. Minny (KAT + Butler + Wiggins + Teague)
5. OKC (Westbrook + George + Adams)
6. Portland (Lillard + McCollum + the Nurkic effect)
7. LA Clips (Griffin + Jordan + Gallo)
8. New Orleans (Davis + Boogie + Holiday)
9. Denver (Jokic + Millsap)
10. Memphis (Conley + Marc Gasol)
11. Utah (Gobert + Favors + Hood + Rubio + good coach in Snyder)

(not necessarily in that order)

I cannot see the Lakers being better than any of those teams. Worst case scenario (for the C's) they 'll be the 12th best team in the West.

Hopefully, they are gonna be worse than some Eastern Conference teams as well. Problem is, there are far too many tankers/bad teams in the East.

If I had to guess, I 'd say the following teams are gonna be worse than the Lakers next season.

Phoenix
Dallas
Brooklyn
Atlanta
Chicago
NY
Orlando

In this scenario, only way for us to get the pick is if the Lakers move up to #2 (3.3%) or #3 (3.9%) in the lottery. To put it another way, we would have a 7.2% chance to get the pick.

Not sure why you consider Dallas worse? They have Barnes who is better than anyone on the Lakers roster. Smith Jr will have as good a rookie year as Ball and I think Dirk is coming back right?

In the East there are many bad teams but they all have to play each other. They have to win some games and I think that'll take a few of them ahead of LA.

So I have them 4th or 5th worst record. So lady luck will decide whether we keep the pick or not.
Problem is, the Lakers will have zero incentive to lose games whereas other teams might decide to tank the season. For instance, last year the Lakers started 10-10 and from then on their record was 16-46.
Could not the same thing be said about the nets the last two seasons- they have no reason to tank. Yet, they sucked eggs. More than this argument is needed to convince me about the lakers.

I still want to see ball play defense on some real NBA guards before I believe in him. His not playing against fox, who ate him up twice in college ball, makes me wonder.

I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2017, 09:34:22 PM »

Offline Granath

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Problem is, the Lakers will have zero incentive to lose games whereas other teams might decide to tank the season. For instance, last year the Lakers started 10-10 and from then on their record was 16-46.

Yeah, because that really helped Brooklyn the last two years. And they started off 4-5 last year. So that 10-10 start was just them overachieving. Can you point to a particular decision made after game 20 that caused them to lose more games?

Do people really not get this? Tanking is far rarer than people think. For instance, the Lakers had EVERY incentive to tank last year because they would have lost their draft pick if it fell outside the top 3. Yet they won 5 straight right at the end of the season. Orlando could have tanked but their winning percentage didn't fall (5 out of their last 13 is actually better than their winning percentage last year). Phoenix won 2 of their last 3 (6-16 their last 22 is just about what they did all year). The same holds true for every other team and prior seasons bear out the same result - tanking is actually really rare. I could go into the numerous reasons why this is (fanbase, locker room ramifications, sponsors) but there are many reasons against tanking.

It's rare that teams tank an entire year. The 76ers did it a couple of years. Teams tend to do it when there's a superstar coming up in the draft (aka Lebron, Tim Duncan). But that's not what we're talking about here. The tanking we're discussing is the type of lobbying for a better draft pick.

Here's the thing - it doesn't make a tremendous difference even if they did it. Post-All Star break there's generally 26 or 27 games left. Even if there's evidence of tanking, that doesn't typically happen until around the ASB. At that point it's really too late. The teams tempted to tank are only winning at a 1/3rd clip. So they would be expected to win only about 8 or 9 games. Teams that start to tank typically still win games just at a reduced rate. The net effect would be about 3 or 4 fewer wins at best. It's enough to move a couple of draft slots at best.

In a nutshell:

(1) Bad teams are bad and will lose anyway
(2) Tanking is really rare
(3) Most tanking results in very minor differences in W/L totals

So can we PLEASE put to bed this myth of "no incentive to tank" making bad teams somehow better? It's simply not true.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2017, 09:55:28 PM »

Offline MVP

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There is some overrating of how good the Lakers can be next season. They are extremely young and young teams don't win (see OKC with 2nd year Durant/rookie Westbrook). They will be terrible defensively with Randle/Lopez as their front court and Ball struggling to keep his man in front of him. And they have very little 3 point shooting. Unless they make other moves, i think they'll be in the bottom 2 in the west with the Kings.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2017, 07:03:28 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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@ hwangjini_1, Granath

The Nets had no incentive to lose games but they were hands down the worst team in the league. Their roster was full of scrubs. Only good player they had was Lopez. Their second best player was Jeremy Lin! The Lakers have Lopez + KCP + Ball + Clarkson + Ingram + Randle + Nance Jr + Zubac + veteran presence in Deng. They are a far better team than the Nets were last season.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:08:57 AM by Jvalin »

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2017, 07:21:19 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Lakers are going to be bottom 3 in western conference

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2017, 07:24:34 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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There is some overrating of how good the Lakers can be next season. They are extremely young and young teams don't win (see OKC with 2nd year Durant/rookie Westbrook). They will be terrible defensively with Randle/Lopez as their front court and Ball struggling to keep his man in front of him. And they have very little 3 point shooting. Unless they make other moves, i think they'll be in the bottom 2 in the west with the Kings.

This is it. And the title of the thread is awful.

People say Boston fans overrate their own players the most in the league. They don't read Celticsblog forums, where Rozier was trash and Portis was the next KG, Zizic was rubbish and Labissiere the next Duncan, and our picks will never turn into good ones because the Nets and the Lakers have improved and may be playoff teams.

 :angel: