Author Topic: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick  (Read 7639 times)

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Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2017, 11:31:42 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Really don't care anymore mate. It feels like I'm trying to persuade you that I'm not an alien or something. The way I see it, tanking the rest of the season is common practise among non-playoff teams. Obviously, you have a different point of view. I respect that. Let's just agree to disagree. Feel free to believe whatever you want.

You haven't even begun to persuade. You've just said the same thing repeatedly without producing hardly any evidence that supports your viewpoint. What little you've produced (LAL, DAL) was quickly debunked by the actual result of the games. So if you want to believe in conspiracy theories and widespread tanking of games, feel free but it's one of those NBA2K fantasy GM assumptions that doesn't hold true in the real world.
Wasnt the lottery itself, and other approaches before it, put in place because it's pretty common kowldge that teams were tanking?

The current lottery system was put in place 27 years ago. How does something that happened 3 decades ago support a current assumption? That same year the Bad Boys were crowned NBA Champions. Should Danny build a team to defeat that kind of roster and approach on the court?

I find tanking to be an egregious affront to the players, fans and the game. But the lottery has largely curbed the major abuses of it. That's not to say it never happens (which I have never claimed it does not). That's why there was such consternation when Hinkie adopted his multi-year "stank and tank" approach and that's why you heard a very large rumbling from NBA front offices that they were considering other approaches if it continued. When the prize is large enough - a Duncan, an Oden/Durant, a Lebron - teams will still do it because there's an overwhelming incentive that overcomes the reasons not to do it. But the current system does act as a major deterrent because of the risk versus the (generally) minimal rewards for obviously throwing in the towel the last 1/4th of the season.

But . . . "Everybody knows that all the bad teams tank.  Nobody needs logic here, 'everybody knows' is evidence enough."
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2017, 10:19:45 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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Ball leaves the summer league with calf injury.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2017, 11:17:49 PM »

Offline Dannys Chipotle Guy

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Ball leaves the summer league with calf injury.
"injury"

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2017, 11:35:31 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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After watching the last LA Summer League game I think we can safely say LA will not be a bottom 6 team next season.

I hadn't watched the previous game where Ball went off for 36 points. But, from what I saw last night, he's the real deal. Both offensively and defensively, he's a game changer. He's definitely a transcendent player on the passing end of things. I think both Brown and Tatum can learn a thing or two from him. He has an amazing way of thinking 'pass' all the time. He's lightening quick in his thinking. Often, even if he doesn't get the assist, his initial pass leads to a secondary player being wide open. 

Forget the LA pick. It ain't happening. Ingram scored 26 before he was shut down. Add KCP and possibly 50 games from Lopez, a healthy Randle(?), Clarkson is legit..i don't know the rest of roster that well...I'm sure I'm missing someone good. 

In time, the Celtics might wish they hadn't passed on Ball, not Fultz. (I know he didn't want to play here, his father, yada, yada, ....)

Ball isn't putting up 36 points against NBA players.  The guy has no offensive game beyond spot up threes and the occasional drive to the basket (which he lacks the quickenss/strength to finish against NBA competition). 

He'll be a good player, but I'll be surprised if he ends up much (if any) better than Tatum - who has all the tools to be an elite NBA scorer and a very capable defender.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2017, 11:50:56 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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^ agreed, and he never drives to the left. Very predictable
.

This is ball on defense: https://instagram.com/p/BWoSSqFFil1/ imagine IT splitting him. It is like 2 feet shorter than him and will make him look so bad lol

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #140 on: July 17, 2017, 04:04:37 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #141 on: July 17, 2017, 04:10:03 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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^ agreed, and he never drives to the left. Very predictable
.

This is ball on defense: https://instagram.com/p/BWoSSqFFil1/ imagine IT splitting him. It is like 2 feet shorter than him and will make him look so bad lol

That's only one clip of Ball's matador defense going back to UCLA. Do we even need to talk about what Fox did to him?

Ball could actually make LAL's league-worst defense even worse..

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #142 on: July 17, 2017, 04:11:06 PM »

Offline Androslav

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.
KCP played for 1 team so far. Detroit parted ways because of money and cause they have similar skill sets. KCP is an elite perimiter defender that shows promise in hitting threes. He is also longer and better off the dribble than AB. While Avery is more well rounded vet. KCP truly is a great partner to Ball as he can take on tougher of the guards and be a threat off the ball.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #143 on: July 17, 2017, 04:13:20 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.
KCP played for 1 team so far. Detroit parted ways because of money and cause they have similar skill sets. KCP is an elite perimiter defender that shows promise in hitting threes. He is also longer and better off the dribble than AB. While Avery is more well rounded vet. KCP truly is a great partner to Ball as he can take a tougher of the guards and be a threat off the ball.

KCP is not an elite perimeter defender. Where is the evidence that he is even an average defender?

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #144 on: July 17, 2017, 04:35:01 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.
KCP played for 1 team so far. Detroit parted ways because of money and cause they have similar skill sets. KCP is an elite perimiter defender that shows promise in hitting threes. He is also longer and better off the dribble than AB. While Avery is more well rounded vet. KCP truly is a great partner to Ball as he can take a tougher of the guards and be a threat off the ball.

KCP is not an elite perimeter defender. Where is the evidence that he is even an average defender?
there's none. He's garbage

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #145 on: July 17, 2017, 04:48:33 PM »

Offline greece666

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.
KCP played for 1 team so far. Detroit parted ways because of money and cause they have similar skill sets. KCP is an elite perimiter defender that shows promise in hitting threes. He is also longer and better off the dribble than AB. While Avery is more well rounded vet. KCP truly is a great partner to Ball as he can take a tougher of the guards and be a threat off the ball.

KCP is not an elite perimeter defender. Where is the evidence that he is even an average defender?
there's none. He's garbage

where's the evidence he is garbage? I'm not a fan of KCP, but 'garbage' feels too strong.

I looked up the bball ref comp of his and Bradley's numbers, they are close in several cats.

http://bkref.com/tiny/18CTc

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2017, 04:58:42 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Ball is a rookie.  He's not that special.

KCP is a journeyman.  There's a reason Detroit decided to rescind their offer after acquiring Bradley from us.
KCP played for 1 team so far. Detroit parted ways because of money and cause they have similar skill sets. KCP is an elite perimiter defender that shows promise in hitting threes. He is also longer and better off the dribble than AB. While Avery is more well rounded vet. KCP truly is a great partner to Ball as he can take a tougher of the guards and be a threat off the ball.

KCP is not an elite perimeter defender. Where is the evidence that he is even an average defender?
there's none. He's garbage

where's the evidence he is garbage? I'm not a fan of KCP, but 'garbage' feels too strong.

I looked up the bball ref comp of his and Bradley's numbers, they are close in several cats.

http://bkref.com/tiny/18CTc

Yeah they do seem somewhat similar. For the record, I've never been that high on Bradley, but I know some think he's a really valuable player.

KCP looks a lot like Avery actually. I just had never even heard of KCP, now it seems like he's a perennial DPOY candidate or something. The Lakers definitely need the help on D..

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #147 on: July 17, 2017, 05:04:52 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Brook Lopez is the best player on that team right now and if he goes down or only plays for half the season (or less) then the LAL are so screwed.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #148 on: July 18, 2017, 02:55:56 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Really don't care anymore mate. It feels like I'm trying to persuade you that I'm not an alien or something. The way I see it, tanking the rest of the season is common practise among non-playoff teams. Obviously, you have a different point of view. I respect that. Let's just agree to disagree. Feel free to believe whatever you want.

You haven't even begun to persuade. You've just said the same thing repeatedly without producing hardly any evidence that supports your viewpoint. What little you've produced (LAL, DAL) was quickly debunked by the actual result of the games. So if you want to believe in conspiracy theories and widespread tanking of games, feel free but it's one of those NBA2K fantasy GM assumptions that doesn't hold true in the real world.
Wasnt the lottery itself, and other approaches before it, put in place because it's pretty common kowldge that teams were tanking?

Yes.  And the lottery pretty much neutralizes the determinism that _used_ to drive tanking.  Tanking was a strategy before the lottery.  Now it is a gamble, with the odds stacked against you.

Every year since the weighted lottery was put in place, there are about 7 teams in the NBA with less than 30 wins (or equivalent w-l percentage in the shortened years).   The variance is not much.  I think the most teams in any one year with records that bad was 9 and the fewest was 4.

A telling aspect of this is that the number of teams with crappy, sub-30-win records doesn't seem to really correlate with whether a draft is projected as 'strong' or 'weak'.  In recent years we've had fewer bad teams in the 'strong' drafts than in the weak ones.

This lack of correlation doesn't support the idea that teams are tanking for particular drafts.

I think that mostly that these are just bad teams.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

Re: I think we can safely say we won't get the Laker pick
« Reply #149 on: July 18, 2017, 03:19:40 PM »

Offline scottwedman

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As an aside, #1 overall is expensive. About $7M this year--which is one reason why Ainge traded it. More $ next year. That's a lot for a 19yo gamble.

Ball would've looked good as a Celtic - could've put IT at the 2 like the Rockets did with Calvin Murphy back in the day, had him guard quick PGs and score at will from Ball's passes.

In any event, Celtics fortunes continue to rise - good picks in the bank even without the Lakers' pick.