Positionless Celticsball (or why Avery was expendable) (from seeroy in Reddit)

[LGC88]

Here is an interesting post from seeroy (Reddit).
I thought I'll share it for those who don't read Reddit.


From user seeroy
Original link :
https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/6m6llu/positionless_celticsball_or_why_avery_was/

1) As forwards and bigs shoot the three better and better, the necessity of the traditional shooting guard slot in the NBA is waning.
2) Because taller players now must be guarded farther away from the basket, defensive switching versatility off of pick and rolls and in general is more essential than ever.
3) The new ideal lineup for modern analytics-centric 3pointer-heavy NBA basketball is: 1 ball handler, 3 wings of varying sizes and strengths who can all handle well enough to run plays as the primary handler, and 1 big that can shoot 3s well enough to space the floor.
4) Avery Bradley is ironically stuck between positions in this positionless NBA. He is not able to be the full-time ball handler and he is not large enough to be a modern full spectrum wing.
5) I'm not saying Avery is a bad player. He's amazing! But think about matching up with Golden State.
Curry handles, and Klay, Durant, Draymond, and Iguodala are all 6'6"+ wings of varying sizes, speeds, and abilities. They only really played with a true big about 20 to 24 minutes per game out of 48.
If Isaiah is guarding Curry, how does Avery realistically switch off guarding ALL of those wings without mismatch madness?
6) Danny Ainge and Brad Stevens are building an army horde of wing warriors to compete with Golden State (and everyone).
Instead of thinking PG, SG, SF, PF, and C let's compare this way:
Golden State: pilot Curry and his wings of Iggy, Klay, Durant, and Draymond (with occasional true big men rotated in as needed and the tall Livingston as a back up ball handler/wing)
Celtics: pilot Isaiah and his wings of Hayward, Jaylen, Crowder, Jayson, Morris, and maybe Yabu (with Horford being a way better big than GS has and the tall-enough and versatile Smart as back up handler/wing)
7) We got way better this off season
Realistically, this off season we lost:
An unnecessary big (Olynyk)
Another unnecessary big who couldn't shoot 3s (Amir)
And a solid player that was neither a true ball handler nor fully versatile wing (Avery)
We added:
A 6'8" wing that can shoot, handle, and adequately guard any size wing (Jayson)
Another 6'8" wing that can shoot, handle, and adequately guard any size wing (Hayward)
A 6'9" large wing that can shoot the three and guard the heck out of Lebron (Morris)
Insane upside depth in Zizic, Yabu, maybe Semi, and the wildcard Theis
And a future draft pick by trading down!
Conclusion:
If you try to make out a Celtics depth chart you will find the Celtics lacking in one way or another.
If you look towards the Golden State model paired with Brad Stevens' preference for positionless basketball... this is not only a stellar squad but a deep stellar squad.
IT4, Smart, and Rozier handle
Horford and Zizic play big
Everyone else is pretty much a 6'7" to 6'9" wing with ability to shoot the three (even Yabu!), handle and pass the ball, drive to the hoop ferociously and fearlessly, and collectively defend any lineup thrown at them.

[Somebody]

Tbh I think Bradley isn't stuck between positions, he's so good on D that him guarding KD wouldn't be a mismatch

[Stig]

Tbh I think Bradley isn't stuck between positions, he's so good on D that him guarding KD wouldn't be a mismatch

Agree, AB routinely guard position 1-3, he'll have no problem guarding Curry or Klay or Iggy. He's traded because his next contract, if he's making 8m in the next 4 years, we'd have dumped Smart for a 2nd rounder before moving AB.

[ashanm10]

Tbh I think Bradley isn't stuck between positions, he's so good on D that him guarding KD wouldn't be a mismatch

....cmon you dont believe he can guard a KD lol..

[Celtics4ever]

If this is true, then IT is gone, he is not a position less guy.

Insane upside depth in Zizic, Yabu, maybe Semi, and the wildcard Theis

Insane upside? I think some else may have some sanity issues...

[Surferdad]

If this is true, then IT is gone, he is not a position less guy.

Insane upside depth in Zizic, Yabu, maybe Semi, and the wildcard Theis

Insane upside? I think some else may have some sanity issues...

I'll go out on a limb (but it's really not too far) and say none of those guys will be regular part of the rotation and most of them will not make the big club this season.

[dreamgreen]

It's a good read and makes a lot of sense also agree with much of it. But IMO AB was just a situation of the salary cap although his inability to handle the ball and horrible passing hurts him a ton.

[Roy H.]

AB was a cap casualty, and that's probably 100% of the answer. He's got a chance at a $100 million+ payday, and the Celts just couldn't afford him. Don't be shocked if Smart gets dealt at some point in the next year.

[SHAQATTACK]

I think Danny held on to him so long , was to see if PG and Hayward were actually going to commit or the deals work out.   So if it seemed he could get no better players , hed just hold on to AB , and go as far as they could one more year.  Then give him away.

It worked out on the plus side for Celtics .  Pistons may have a rental.

[Eja117]

Tbh I think Bradley isn't stuck between positions, he's so good on D that him guarding KD wouldn't be a mismatch

Kyrie Irving and Rondo torched this team so I don't think I would want him on KD

[tazzmaniac]

AB was a cap casualty, and that's probably 100% of the answer. He's got a chance at a $100 million+ payday, and the Celts just couldn't afford him. Don't be shocked if Smart gets dealt at some point in the next year.

I don't see Smart getting traded because he should be cheap to re-sign.  I think 4yr/50 would be the most he'd get.  Poor shooting defensive players don't command big contracts. 

[KGs Knee]

Yeah, Bradley wasn't traded for any other reason that Wyc likely didn't want to pay luxury tax on Bradley's salary. My guess is the front office hopes/expects Jaylen to fill Bradley's role, but for much cheaper.

It had zero to do with Bradley being a supposedly ill fitting player. That's just not accurate at all.

[Fan from VT]

AB was a cap casualty, and that's probably 100% of the answer. He's got a chance at a $100 million+ payday, and the Celts just couldn't afford him. Don't be shocked if Smart gets dealt at some point in the next year.

Yes. This was not made for basketball style reasons. If they could keep AB and just add a PF they would have. But they had to even out some positions, and had to make cap room, and have to think about how to keep the team together for 2-3 years, not just next year.

[Bobshot]

The problem with forwards in the backcourt is they're easily stripped of the ball by quicker guards. Saw that the other night vs. Utah.

You do need some quickness to bring the ball up. Too often it's been a forward, not DJ, bringing the ball up.

I wouldn't count on Zizic for this year, from what he has shown so far. Looks like he needs D-league time, or maybe another year abroad. Ainge is probably on the phones looking for a big with experience. No doubt Semi and probably Nader will make the team.

[RLewis35]

Tbh I think Bradley isn't stuck between positions, he's so good on D that him guarding KD wouldn't be a mismatch

Cmon.  There were times in the wash series where it was clear Bradley couldn't guard beal bc beal was too big and physical for him.  Smart on the other hand could suffocate him.


Don't get me wrong, I love avery, and he is an excellent defender on curry and many other top players in the league. But his lack of size was an issue at times, especially since he can't play PG on offense. Him and Isaiah together had to be one of the smallest back courts in the league.