Author Topic: What would you do? Trade or Pay  (Read 1403 times)

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Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 10:34:52 AM »

Offline nebist

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I would pay both, but I'd also be willing to let the market dictate the price a bit to try and get the best deal possible. It looks like next summer will be a further market correction with a relatively flat cap raise and fewer teams with major space. I think we will ultimately sign IT for 25-30 mil over 3-4 years. I think Smart's contract will end up between 12-18 depending on how well he shoots this year and if another team makes him an offer in RFA.  I would be offering Smart up to a 4 year 52 mil extension this fall to see if he'll bite on long-term security (though I'd expect him to not accept that deal).

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 11:00:23 AM »

Offline td450

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I would phrase this differently.

IT clearly sees himself as someone who deserves a full max deal, and will expect the C's to offer him that. Ainge almost certainly will want to see what the market will bear, and will want to pay IT accordingly. There is a pretty big expectations gap here and that usually causes problems.

Ultimately, IT is the one who will decide whether this works out. Will he investigate the market discretely then negotiate a deal with Ainge based on the market, or will he get angry at the C's, look for a better deal, and sign with someone else without talking to the C's last. It will end up being up to him, but this could become a problem.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2017, 11:13:22 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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I'm interested in seeing what people would do?  Do you think we should trade or pay this two players, Smart and Thomas?  Smart is a lot younger, more room to improve, would come a lot cheaper.  Thomas is saying he wants a max deal next year.  Thomas is coming off a hip injury which can really kill a career, would have to see how he comes back. 

So what do you think the Celtics should do?  Do you pay or trade them?  If you trade them, what do you think we could get for them?

I think it's academic. I'm almost certain we'll draft Doncic and S&T IT next summer and then sign Smart to a reasonable deal if we can. No way are we going to pay IT that kind of money..

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2017, 11:13:22 AM »

Offline nebist

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Good point about Isaiah's reaction to the negotiations being key to ultimately retaining him. We have to hope that he values how the Celtics organization and coaching staff have been key in helping elevate his star status. He easily could have gone through his career typecast as a 6th man type and never reached the kind of contract numbers we are considering.  I'm hopeful that belief the Cs had in him early on will help the negotiations not become acrimonious. 

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 11:14:26 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I would phrase this differently.

IT clearly sees himself as someone who deserves a full max deal, and will expect the C's to offer him that. Ainge almost certainly will want to see what the market will bear, and will want to pay IT accordingly. There is a pretty big expectations gap here and that usually causes problems.

Ultimately, IT is the one who will decide whether this works out. Will he investigate the market discretely then negotiate a deal with Ainge based on the market, or will he get angry at the C's, look for a better deal, and sign with someone else without talking to the C's last. It will end up being up to him, but this could become a problem.
I don't think there's a gap in expectations.  I seriously doubt Danny is thinking IT isn't worth the max or close to it where another solid season removes any doubts on his part.

personally, I don't think he's worth the max but considering the contracts being thrown around to comparative talent in the league, IT has a solid argument for getting one.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 11:15:26 AM »

Offline celts55

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Personally I think it's way too early to make a decision on either one. Let's see how they look this year, then decide.
Maybe Smart develops a shot. Makes him a borderline all-star.
Maybe IT"s injury keeps him out half the season, and he comes back a shell of last year's player?
Who knows at this point.
 

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2017, 11:30:35 AM »

Offline JHTruth

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both will get paid.

IT, for better or worse, is now the face of the franchise.  he's not going anywhere.

Smart is basically our backup PG and our top defender.  I'm becoming less optimistic his shot will improve much this coming season (I hold out hope that his FT shooting will improve though) but his D and ability to impact a game without scoring is something the team needs.  He'll get paid as well -- probably less than KO money.  We don't really gain anything by letting him go in a trade or not offering him a reasonable deal.

LOL "face of the franchise". Danny traded PP, a home-grown HOFer without blinking an eye. He will trade IT without hesitation..

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2017, 11:31:59 AM »

Offline Diggles

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All depends on how well he comes back from this injury.   Let's wait and see.  :-)

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2017, 09:49:59 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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both will get paid.

IT, for better or worse, is now the face of the franchise.  he's not going anywhere.

Smart is basically our backup PG and our top defender.  I'm becoming less optimistic his shot will improve much this coming season (I hold out hope that his FT shooting will improve though) but his D and ability to impact a game without scoring is something the team needs.  He'll get paid as well -- probably less than KO money.  We don't really gain anything by letting him go in a trade or not offering him a reasonable deal.

LOL "face of the franchise". Danny traded PP, a home-grown HOFer without blinking an eye. He will trade IT without hesitation..
Ainge traded PP when he was washed up, not when he was in the middle of his prime years.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2017, 09:53:10 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Without Isaiah, the Celtics don't have Horford and Hayward, and they don't get a meeting with Durant last summer.

Without Isaiah, the Celtics don't even make the ECF and frankly, I think there's a chance last season's team WITHOUT Isaiah may have even missed the playoffs (as a 9-10 seed).

He's NOT leaving people.

If his injury is a lot more serious, then we can talk, but it doesn't seem like it is according to CBS and other reports.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 07:44:46 AM »

Offline CsBanner18

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Without Isaiah, the Celtics don't have Horford and Hayward, and they don't get a meeting with Durant last summer.

Without Isaiah, the Celtics don't even make the ECF and frankly, I think there's a chance last season's team WITHOUT Isaiah may have even missed the playoffs (as a 9-10 seed).

He's NOT leaving people.

If his injury is a lot more serious, then we can talk, but it doesn't seem like it is according to CBS and other reports.

EXACTLY! All this "Will we pay IT the max?" talk is FOOLISHNESS!

Back up the brinks truck!! I don't care how much these owners have to pay. Once over the cap, we as fans don't have to worry about penny pinching to save cap space for "the right guy". We have our 3 max guys. Now it's time to pay up...


Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 07:52:16 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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It depends what the market bears.   You might be able to get something nice in return so I think that needs to be taken in consideration.

Quote
He's NOT leaving people.

Your talking about Danny Ainge here.   The guy who traded Bradley, PP, and KG.  He could care less what the fans think and he is about as sentimental as cancer.   With Ainge, if he sees an opportunity to improve the team, one never knows what he could do.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 10:23:55 AM »

Offline jay

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IT's current contract had his annual pay decrease every year.  $7.2 mil, $6.9 mil, $6.5 mil, $6.2 mil.   http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/isaiah-thomas-8111/

I noticed the Kings did the same type deal with George Hill, $20 mil, $19 mil, $18 mil and only $1 mil is guaranteed in the final year.  https://sports.yahoo.com/report-final-season-george-hill-195316445.html

I wonder if IT would consider a "Max" contract starting at $30.6 mil (So it would be a max deal in year one) but with the salary decreasing by 3% going forward?

Year 1: $30.6
Year 2: $29.68
Year 3: $28.79
Year 4: $27.93
Year 5: $27.09

Total for 5 years: $144.09  instead of the $179 Max contract with the final year being over $40 mil. It saves the team $25 mil which isn't a huge deal, but the final year, he would be making $15 mil less so that might help against the Cap. Year 5 would be even better if it wasn't fully guaranteed (similar to George Hill)

@bigjasonjones

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 01:32:28 PM »

Offline Moranis

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both will get paid.

IT, for better or worse, is now the face of the franchise.  he's not going anywhere.

Smart is basically our backup PG and our top defender.  I'm becoming less optimistic his shot will improve much this coming season (I hold out hope that his FT shooting will improve though) but his D and ability to impact a game without scoring is something the team needs.  He'll get paid as well -- probably less than KO money.  We don't really gain anything by letting him go in a trade or not offering him a reasonable deal.

LOL "face of the franchise". Danny traded PP, a home-grown HOFer without blinking an eye. He will trade IT without hesitation..
Ainge traded PP when he was washed up, not when he was in the middle of his prime years.
that's only because Portland backed out at the last minute.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: What would you do? Trade or Pay
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2017, 02:13:59 PM »

Offline CELTICSofBOSTON

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4 year 120 million for IT is fair.

Smart is a little bit more tricky.  I am not sure how much money is going to be available next summer during free agency, but Marcus will probably get a little more than Andre Roberson got.

I think 4 year 56 million is a good price for Marcus Smart.
It's about to be crazy, G.